Next Level GM

[CHA-LEE]

1 hour ago, elguapo said:

 

Do you have any idea why USPSA makes it so hard to go down in class?  As far as I'm concerned, one's classification should float and it should be whatever the average of your last six classifiers is (with the caveat of outliers thrown out per the current rulebook).

 

Because people like getting a participation ribbon and keeping it. If the classification system was based on a floating average of your classifier stage and major match performance then there would be a lot more people quitting the sport. They would achieve their desired classification then stop attending because they want to keep their desired "Participation Ribbon".

[Big Guy]

Classification system should be eliminated. 

 

"Participation ribbons" add way too much hassle to the sport.

 

You win the match, good.  You don't, go practice some more.

[CHA-LEE]

1 minute ago, Big Guy said:

Classification system should be eliminated. 

 

"Participation ribbons" add way too much hassle to the sport.

 

You win the match, good.  You don't, go practice some more.

Eliminating the Classification system would instantly nuke a large portion of the membership as they use the classification system as their only method to track their skill level. Take away the measuring stick and they will find another sport to play in.

[Maximis228]

Not to mention all that lost revenue to the HQ. $1.50 lost on the classifier itself per shooter. Cuts their activity revenue in half or more.

[Big Guy]

1 hour ago, CHA-LEE said:

Eliminating the Classification system would instantly nuke a large portion of the membership as they use the classification system as their only method to track their skill level. Take away the measuring stick and they will find another sport to play in.

 

I understand and agree with the concept of tracking progress.  My point is not to eliminate the classification process, but to eliminate the various classes within the classification system.

 

Any shooter can track whether they improve or not based on a general calcification percentage (say whether 40 or 75% of the associated hit factor).   There is no real need to give a shooter an award for A, B, C, or whatever in order to make them feel good a night because they won their class.  We all know that whoever wins a class in a major match definitively shoots well above his classification.

 

As for the $1.50, that will still be charged for shooting the classifiers.

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Big Guy

[CHA-LEE]

55 minutes ago, Big Guy said:

 

I understand and agree with the concept of tracking progress.  My point is not to eliminate the classification process, but to eliminate the various classes within the classification system.

 

Any shooter can track whether they improve or not based on a general calcification percentage (say whether 40 or 75% of the associated hit factor).   There is no real need to give a shooter an award for A, B, C, or whatever in order to make them feel good a night because they won their class.  We all know that whoever wins a class in a major match definitively shoots well above his classification.

 

As for the $1.50, that will still be charged for shooting the classifiers.

 

 

 

I fully understand where you are coming from and agree with your stance. The problem is that the vast majority of the members within USPSA don't feel the same way about it. They want a Classification level as a reward to their efforts. If you think about it in the big picture, the classification system is a genius idea for keeping the average weekend warrior engaged to strive for the next level of classification while also filling the USPSA bank accounts with a serious amount of cash.

 

Ask your average local match attending USPSA shooter what their primary practical shooting performance goal is. The vast majority of them will immediately respond with wanting to achieve a specific classification level. They usually don't have a focused strategy or plan on how to achieve that goal. They think that simply attending matches and practicing in any haphazard manner is going to magically allow them to obtain their classification goal. If we decommissioned the classification system all of these shooters would have zero motivation to get better because there isn't a predefined "Measuring Stick" for them to strive for. Zero motivation would result in finding other more entertaining or rewarding hobbies to participate in.  

[elguapo]

5 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

Because people like getting a participation ribbon and keeping it. If the classification system was based on a floating average of your classifier stage and major match performance then there would be a lot more people quitting the sport. They would achieve their desired classification then stop attending because they want to keep their desired "Participation Ribbon".

 

I've heard that argument before in sporting clays and no one in that sport who claims this debacle will happen can provide any evidence to support their position.  It's always "I think" or "I know" or "I feel" or "it's human nature"

 

I bet USPSA is the same way

[regor]

4 hours ago, Big Guy said:

 

I understand and agree with the concept of tracking progress.  My point is not to eliminate the classification process, but to eliminate the various classes within the classification system.

 

Any shooter can track whether they improve or not based on a general calcification percentage (say whether 40 or 75% of the associated hit factor).   There is no real need to give a shooter an award for A, B, C, or whatever in order to make them feel good a night because they won their class.  We all know that whoever wins a class in a major match definitively shoots well above his classification.

 

If you are going to track a moving average of each member's classifiers, you might as well lump them into classes. It may not add anything profound to the sport, it does make it simpler to understand your progress and compare yourself to your fellow competitors. It also makes it a more rewarding experience to hit an officially marked threshold in the sport like making B class vs deciding for yourself that 60% is a big milestone for you, and that is very beneficial to keeping people engaged. These might be meaningless to some people who are able to entirely self motivate, but even if they are meaningless to you it's damn near impossible to make a case that it has a negative impact on the sport. 

 

I definitely think it is funny when someone brags about being the top of their class because what they are really saying is that they are either (a) sandbagging or (b) aren't good enough to make the next class. That being said I do think the practice is no different than giving trophies/prizes in any other tiered sport. The team that wins the G League still gets a trophy even though it's not the NBA championship; we just happen to be in a sport where all of the leagues are competing in the same event. It helps keep things competitive up and down the ranks. 

 

If you got rid of the classes but kept percentages, would you count every single classifier or throw out low scores like the current system? 

[GunBugBit]

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 10:33 PM, Smithcity said:

Forgive me if im wrong but I do not think GMs are better than roughly 95% of other members at classifiers. Rather, GMs are within 5% of the designated 100% high hit factor. As such it was my understanding that somewhere between 1-2% of uspsa members achieve the GM designation. Remember, many GMs hold a card in multiple divisions. The number of unique GMs is less than the number of GM percentages in the sport across divisions I.e. right now its the 1-2%, it could grow to 6%, or shrink to 1% or less. Your percentage is not relative to the rest of the sport, and it is not a percential relative to all other shooters, it is a percential of the highest hit factor.

 

Or im completely wrong....

You're probably completely right, and I did say "roughly."

[HesedTech]

Here’s what I know about making GM, it takes a lot of practice and focused work and the individuals who achieve it deserve the recognition. Two thumbs up to all who have achieved the classification!!!

[CheekyChung]

On 3/29/2019 at 2:29 PM, Maximis228 said:

 

Lake Zurich. Im the MD at MISS in McHenry.

Hi Max. Should've checked your profile. lol

[Npoulson]

The guys you see at the top next to local guys difference is at one time the local gm hammered practice it either was all he did cost to much or family problems

when your job is to shoot you are going to be better

we for the most part are weekend warriors 

these top guys dryfire hours a day

constant livefire

they dont have to worry about loading ammo

gun maintenance getting time this week to go to the range or having enough ammo loaded

their match fees and travel are covered

huge difference 

there is some local guys that do it but they get picked up after time even guys working other jobs not in the industry 

once you have free guns and multiple of them ammo loaded etc etc 

id save hours without brass processing loading picking brass up

loading gear for range trip 1hr to range 1hr back 20 min set up time for two hour training you are in it 4 hours

then get off at 5 get home dryfire hr or two you are at 8pm dinner time then when do you load gota make time

its like anything 

lets say like me you are a contractor 

but on weekends and free time u build things

im always going to be a bit faster a bit cleaner and have better equipment due to its my job and i do it 50hrs a week and you are maybe 1-2hrs a day if you are hard into it and maybe a Saturday half a day

does that make any sense?

[RangerTrace]

7 hours ago, Npoulson said:

The guys you see at the top next to local guys difference is at one time the local gm hammered practice it either was all he did cost to much or family problems

when your job is to shoot you are going to be better

we for the most part are weekend warriors 

these top guys dryfire hours a day

constant livefire

they dont have to worry about loading ammo

gun maintenance getting time this week to go to the range or having enough ammo loaded

their match fees and travel are covered

huge difference 

there is some local guys that do it but they get picked up after time even guys working other jobs not in the industry 

once you have free guns and multiple of them ammo loaded etc etc 

id save hours without brass processing loading picking brass up

loading gear for range trip 1hr to range 1hr back 20 min set up time for two hour training you are in it 4 hours

then get off at 5 get home dryfire hr or two you are at 8pm dinner time then when do you load gota make time

its like anything 

lets say like me you are a contractor 

but on weekends and free time u build things

im always going to be a bit faster a bit cleaner and have better equipment due to its my job and i do it 50hrs a week and you are maybe 1-2hrs a day if you are hard into it and maybe a Saturday half a day

does that make any sense?

Punctuation.....who needs punctuation.......?

[Npoulson]

2 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

Punctuation.....who needs punctuation.......?

 

[GrumpyOne]

19 minutes ago, Npoulson said:

 

I almost died reading that. Needs punctuation so people can take a breath

[Npoulson]

18 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

I almost died reading that. Needs punctuation so people can take a breath

I will spend more time trying to do that.

you would think with 6 college English classes that would be an easy thing.

Not so much

Sorry guys. I will do better

[GrumpyOne]

Just now, Npoulson said:

I will spend more time trying to do that.

you would think with 6 college English classes that would be an easy thing.

Not so much

Sorry guys. I will do better

Lol. 

[Racinready300ex]

46 minutes ago, Npoulson said:

I will spend more time trying to do that.

you would think with 6 college English classes that would be an easy thing.

Not so much

Sorry guys. I will do better

 

It's the internet I don't think anyone expects perfect but that was hard to read. 

 

Also, I think some of what you think "pro's" do is inaccurate. Certainly as those shooters where coming up they didn't. And most guys on the super squad have day jobs, train on the side, load their own ammo and fund the majority of their own shooting. Vary few are getting all the things you listed.

[Npoulson]

41 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

It's the internet I don't think anyone expects perfect but that was hard to read. 

 

Also, I think some of what you think "pro's" do is inaccurate. Certainly as those shooters where coming up they didn't. And most guys on the super squad have day jobs, train on the side, load their own ammo and fund the majority of their own shooting. Vary few are getting all the things you listed.

I agree for the most part but they have a lot of resources a guy like me does not have

he mentioned max jj etc

you are right a lot do have jobs 

some do load on mark 7 they are sponsored by

[BillGarlandJr]

All the hard work the guys at the top of the game have put in, and continue to put in aside, something to keep in mind is many of them are tremendous athletes with some gifts that lend themselves to success in not just our sport, but in any athletic pursuit. Vision, quickness, strength, and coordination are traits with caps imposed by genetics, and the dudes at the top have a higher cap than most of us. Speaking for myself, you could give me all the time, guns and ammo in the world and I would get better for sure, but at the end of the day I’ll never move like JJ, or have the vision of a Leatham in his prime. That said, it sure would be a hoot to have all the time, guns, and ammo in the world to see how good we could get…..

[Racinready300ex]

2 hours ago, Npoulson said:

I agree for the most part but they have a lot of resources a guy like me does not have

he mentioned max jj etc

you are right a lot do have jobs 

some do load on mark 7 they are sponsored by

 

The important thing to remember is when they started out they didn't have any of those things. And the guys I know that have made it to the super squad tend to not make excuses as to why they can't. 

[Npoulson]

29 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

The important thing to remember is when they started out they didn't have any of those things. And the guys I know that have made it to the super squad tend to not make excuses as to why they can't. 

Totally agree

original op asked why they are so much better that is my opinion of why

yes you gan get there anyone can

but to stay there you either make that your life or dont stay

no excuses here

i am putting the time in now

[Racinready300ex]

13 minutes ago, Npoulson said:

Totally agree

original op asked why they are so much better that is my opinion of why

yes you gan get there anyone can

but to stay there you either make that your life or dont stay

no excuses here

i am putting the time in now

 

Yeah, to get even near the top you need to accept you're taking on a full time job that will pay you nothing and you're real job needs to be good enough to support your hobby. 

 

Why they're better is completely between the ears. 

[Npoulson]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Yeah, to get even near the top you need to accept you're taking on a full time job that will pay you nothing and you're real job needs to be good enough to support your hobby. 

 

Why they're better is completely between the ears. 

Well im out its hollow up there  

[shred]

I think Stoeger once said he got tested by a sports clinic and they found he had little innate physical advantages over an average dude his age.  What he has is the drive to out-train everyone else.