Onepocket Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 I think I know the answer to this question but would like others input. Why do upper level GMs (Ben, Vogel, J.J.) do so much better at majors than your local GM. Local GMs for the most part can hit the same skills (draw, reload, splits ect.) time as the upper level guys. I am just a local scrub, just interested in the why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClangClang Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 At that level, you also need to move like a GM. There are many "paper GMs" who have fast hands but can't move. I don't remember where I saw it, but there's a video from some major (Nationals last year?) of a side-by-side composite of JJ Racazza's runs compared to someone else from the Super Squad. The buzzer goes off at the same time in both videos, but JJ is so far ahead of the other shooter within mere seconds. It's incredible. His splits and transitions are fractionally faster, but his movement from position to position is why he is "next level." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Stoeger in one of his podcasts talks about the difference between the many who can win stages and the fewer who can win matches. I assume that classifiers might be the same, a lot of folks can run fast with high risk but that does not translate into a good score because the odds catch up with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Im a local GM. This is pretty obvious if you pay attention. USPSA Classification system is 95+% based on static skills. Majors are more about movement. Entry and exit being the best things to save time on. USPSA barely tests those in the current classification system. Until that is fixed, you will always have Paper GMs (Myself) and Real GMs (Guys who win Lvl 3+). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 I don't consider guys who made GM by shooting Classifiers paper GMs. Just at a different level. Paper GM to me is someone that manipulated the process of shooting classifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 27 minutes ago, Onepocket said: I don't consider guys who made GM by shooting Classifiers paper GMs. Just at a different level. Paper GM to me is someone that manipulated the process of shooting classifiers. I call those people cheaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimmer1980 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) There are no Paper GM´s (except cheaters). They are the fastest shooters while maintaining accuracy. In my eyes noone should try to take that away from them. Shooting issn´t moving, or stageplaning, thats all. Edited March 14, 2019 by bimmer1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acer2428 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bimmer1980 said: There are no Paper GM´s (except cheaters). They are the fastest shooters while maintaining accuracy. In my eyes noone should try to take that away from them. As said above, to win a match theres a lot more involved. Timewise shooting is only one part. Sometimes the shooting part is so small, that a much worse shooter can win just by moving faster. I think that's kind of the whole point. A 'paper' GM may not be competitive in a match, thus, what makes them/why should they be a GM? It's almost like ranking racecar drivers on how how fast they go around a specific corner. Sure, they can go around a corner fast, with practice, but can they string them together? Can they pass and strategize, and draft, etc. Or ranking a boxer by who can punch the hardest.... Sure, it may be an aspect, but if you're getting TKO'd every bout... there's an issue. Not just Master, but GRAND MASTER should reflect a mastery of all aspects of the sport which ought to make you competitive at majors constantly. In my non-important opinion they ought to either make classifiers more reflective of actual match placement or make GM harder to obtain and KEEP. Edited March 14, 2019 by Acer2428 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Within the category of GM, you can consider that some of them are at the 95% level, some at the 96% level, etc. The top GM's are, of course, at the 99.9% level - that's a BIG difference from 95%. I'm a low level B - top level B's eat my lunch every weekend even though we are both "B". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimmer1980 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 45 minutes ago, Acer2428 said: I think that's kind of the whole point. A 'paper' GM may not be competitive in a match, thus, what makes them/why should they be a GM? It's almost like ranking racecar drivers on how how fast they go around a specific corner. Sure, they can go around a corner fast, with practice, but can they string them together? Can they pass and strategize, and draft, etc. Or ranking a boxer by who can punch the hardest.... Sure, it may be an aspect, but if you're getting TKO'd every bout... there's an issue. Not just Master, but GRAND MASTER should reflect a mastery of all aspects of the sport which ought to make you competitive at majors constantly. In my non-important opinion they ought to either make classifiers more reflective of actual match placement or make GM harder to obtain and KEEP. You are right. But if you are the (Overall) best shooter and stand no chance vs much worse shooters, issn´t something going wrong then ? Ok, it depends on what you call the better shooter. Move less in matches and/or more in classifiers would help. Some stages look like fitness obstacle courses. I think thats to much. Better put more and harder targets out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 It's the mental game, they control/utilize their nerves and function at the highest level while under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithcity Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 LvlIII matches and classifiers test different skillsets. This is why you see A rated shooters pulling 85%+ in major matches and 75%'s on classifiers. Also consider the classification system. When only considering classifiers, GM is 95% or higher. Some GMs shoot them at 95%, others pull 125%'s on them. Clearly those two scores are miles apart. Lastly, GM represents only a couple percent of the sport. Those winning nationals represents a fraction of a percent of the sport. Most people in this sport shoot lvl1 matches, and might do a bigger match every once in a while. In the realm of lvl1 matches, most GMs shoot their percentage. When it comes to the 0.1% skillset at lvl3's from top GMs, you see a wider span of skillsets amongst the GM population with several shooting 80 and 70%'s. That 70% score at nationals is probably a 100% relative to their local club. Certainly one could argue merits of separate classifier and or match classifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg1005 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Because they are better shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said: Because they are better shooters. Wait... so If I do everything better... I will win? O....M....G.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeg1005 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Maximis228 said: Wait... so If I do everything better... I will win? O....M....G.... Only if you use SNS Coated bullets... 5% off "MikeG" coupon code, can be used with 5k and 10k discounts it you call in. Edited March 14, 2019 by mikeg1005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 minute ago, mikeg1005 said: Only if you use SNS Coated bullets... 5% off "MikeG" coupon code, can be used with 5k and 10k discounts it you call in. I didnt see anyone in the top 20 of nationals use SNS.... What do the winners use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Maximis228 said: I didnt see anyone in the top 20 of nationals use SNS.... What do the winners use? whatever they get for free. bullets iz bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, motosapiens said: whatever they get for free. bullets iz bullets. Considering the guy who won limited did it with a borrowed gun that is not his sponsor... I find that to be false. Edited March 14, 2019 by Maximis228 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Just now, Maximis228 said: Considering the guy who won limited did it with a borrowed gun that is not his sponsor... I find that to be false. you think JJ paid for his bullets? You could be right. I don't really know him, but I won't believe it until I hear him say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Kinda like all those guys who travel outside the US and use whatever is available. Happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onepocket Posted March 14, 2019 Author Share Posted March 14, 2019 I have been gone from Enos for a while, I see its turned into a doodie site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Onepocket said: I have been gone from Enos for a while, I see its turned into a doodie site. Well Doodie is dead... so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Acer2428 said: I think that's kind of the whole point. A 'paper' GM may not be competitive in a match, thus, what makes them/why should they be a GM? So if you're M but can't win high M should you be M? What about A, or B etc. In all the classes there is a difference between those at the top and those at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 38 minutes ago, Onepocket said: I have been gone from Enos for a while, I see its turned into a doodie site. Think again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Onepocket said: I have been gone from Enos for a while, I see its turned into a doodie site. Yep, Rapid growth at all cost never ends up well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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