Do you like the new Production rules?

[wtturn]

Not sure why people cling to this illusion of production anyway.  We'd be better off to let production go the rest of the way to limited minor, name it as such, and be done with it.

Totally, it became the second most popular division in spite of inherent division attributes that shooters obviously detested.

[sfinney]

Production should have been factory guns only, no mods. But the horse was out of the barn as soon as they started allowing milled in Bomars, etc. Downhill since then. May as well as call it Lim 10 Minor DA.

 

There is a place in this sport for people to show up with a $500 gun and have fun. While I agree its the Indian not the arrow, the perception is like most sports, Production becomes a contest of who can afford the most mods, or custom tuning, or special "factory" guns that make everything else obsolete. Can a guy still show up with a stock Glock or M&P and clean house? Sure. But many people look at the $2K production guns many are running because they are the hot ticket, and decide USPSA is not for them - Open is way to expensive, Limited almost requires a 2011 (and these days if you aren't running a custom 2011 that cost $3K plus you are just not cool), and Production is an equipment war with almost monthly rulings further clarifying obscure rulings on bad wording that some try to exploit. CO is just an extension of Production + more $ for an optic.

 

Would save a lot of trouble if they just made: Production = DA or striker fire pistol that fits in box, and weighs less than X, 10 round limit. No race holsters.

[IHAVEGAS]

25 minutes ago, sfinney said:

 

 

There is a place in this sport for people to show up with a $500 gun and have fun. ........
But many people look at the $2K production guns

 

Last I looked a fully tricked out Tanfo Stock 2 was about $1400 if you hired a qualified gunsmith to do all the work, for example, $2k seems a bit high but there is probably a way to get there. 

Anyway.

If you are worried about the $1500 difference and you shoot very much then you are not paying close attention to the real costs of shooting.

If you don't shoot very much then you are not likely to care about getting a $2k gun and can still show up with your $500 gun and have fun. I see people doing this at pretty much every match I attend. 

[jhgtyre]

I haven't read every post of this rapidly expanding topic so forgive me if someone has already mentioned that THIS is a stock car

 

and it is relevant because it came to be pretty much the same way that the so called "stock" guns did.  There were no $1500 CZ's or Tanfo's in the day but the factory started making them so that their drivers... er, shooters, sorry... could win the match.  Now USPSA is telling me I can take my Glock and tack on some parts to try to stay in the game with the guys shooting semi-custom guns that are being marketed as "stock".  I'm fine with that.  Now I just need to set aside the budget for a Yenko Nova, I mean Stock 2, and I'm all set.

[wtturn]

If you think the gun matters, you've already lost.

[jhgtyre]

Just now, wtturn said:

If you think the gun matters, you've already lost.

It's the Indian not the arrow, right?  I agree to a large degree but one wise, and pretty successful, competition shooter also said "I hope my competition all use shitty arrows".

[obsessiveshooter]

I haven't read every post of this rapidly expanding topic so forgive me if someone has already mentioned that THIS is a stock car

 
and it is relevant because it came to be pretty much the same way that the so called "stock" guns did.  There were no $1500 CZ's or Tanfo's in the day but the factory started making them so that their drivers... er, shooters, sorry... could win the match.  Now USPSA is telling me I can take my Glock and tack on some parts to try to stay in the game with the guys shooting semi-custom guns that are being marketed as "stock".  I'm fine with that.  Now I just need to set aside the budget for a Yenko Nova, I mean Stock 2, and I'm all set.

Not to you jhgtyre in particular, but I would also point out that no stock car driver would tell his pit crew "I don't need that extra 5 horsepower! It's the driver not the car!"
This might sound crazy, but I've heard that there are some people who actually practice AND like to tune their guns.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[jhgtyre]

2 minutes ago, obsessiveshooter said:

Not to you jhgtyre in particular, but I would also point out that no stock car driver would tell his pit crew "I don't need that extra 5 horsepower! It's the driver not the car!"
This might sound crazy, but I've heard that there are some people who actually practice AND like to tune their guns.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

Practice AND tune your gun?  Now you're just talkin' crazy.

[Crazy Scientist]

17 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

That’s because you don’t lower the hammer if you’re doing it safely.

 

You place your thumb between the hammer and slide, hold the trigger down, and smoothly roll the thumb out.

 

Don’t thumb or pinch the hammer down. Use you thumb [ed] as a firing pin block.

 

True: Someone taught me this and it is safer (and I use/practice it).  Gun Safety Part of brain still doesn't like doing it with the finger on the trigger.  I'd rather release the hammer and get my finger off that trigger,  then roll out the thumb.  

 

I'm CDO.

 

Its like OCD but with the letters in alphabetical order like they should be.

I'm also the kid who fake picked up his fake ejected round before going over the practice fence in hunter safety.

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by Crazy Scientist

[IHAVEGAS]

46 minutes ago, wtturn said:

If you think the gun matters, you've already lost.

 

Could be a local thing. Regularly see long distance targets with lots of hard cover or no shoots, seems like the guys like to have 1 stage that is an accuracy test and 1 pure hoser stage & the rest a mix. 

 

You certainly do not need a bullseye gun, but you also don't want something that shoots 4" groups at 20 yards. 

[SlvrDragon50]

Another thing I'd like to add is that the ability to tune brings all guns to the same level.

 

I don't know about other manufacturers, but I'd be surprised if it weren't true... but CZs have a lot of variability between stock guns. My S2 had tons of creep while other people had zero creep. Other people have tight barrel lock up, I needed a 10X bushing. You get the point.

 

 

[Ssanders224]

10 hours ago, wtturn said:

 

 

I didn't get the memo.

And I keep beating guys with unicorns with my old busted G34.

Because the gun is all but irrelevant.

 

 

Nope.  Now that you know the truth, you're doomed. 

[motosapiens]

11 hours ago, wtturn said:

 

 

I didn't get the memo.

And I keep beating guys with unicorns with my old busted G34.

Because the gun is all but irrelevant.

 

if the gun is irrelevant, then it makes no sense for you to give so many f**ks about the rule change.

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

You certainly do not need a bullseye gun, but you also don't want something that shoots 4" groups at 20 yards. 

 

that may be true (although I can't actually see well enough or hold a gun steady enough to shoot better than a 4" group at 20 yards), but pretty much any gun that is not defective will shoot better than that in the right hands or from a rest.

[Ssanders224]

19 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

if the gun is irrelevant, then it makes no sense for you to give so many f**ks about the rule change.

 

If you believe that, then you do not understand his antipathy for the rule changes. 

wtturn's feelings (like most others') toward the changes have nothing to do with the competitive pros/cons of the actual parts that are now allowed. 

[wtturn]

27 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

if the gun is irrelevant, then it makes no sense for you to give so many f**ks about the rule change.

 

You don't even shoot production, yet you are here.

 

So I guess we're all in the same nonsensical boat.

[IHAVEGAS]

I love it when we get to talk to each other about man feelings and stuff. 

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, wtturn said:

 

You don't even shoot production, yet you are here.

 

So I guess we're all in the same nonsensical boat.

I haven't been shooting it lately. Part of the reason I switched is I thought the old rules were annoying.

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

If you believe that, then you do not understand his antipathy for the rule changes. 

wtturn's feelings (like most others') toward the changes have nothing to do with the competitive pros/cons of the actual parts that are now allowed. 

 

Correct. I don't understand anyone's antipathy for the rule changes. It seems like a purely positive thing to me, but perhaps people who already invested in custom shop guns will have their feelings hurt.

 

FWIW, I don't understand why wacked liberals want to ban guns either, nor do I understand why some dudes are into fat chicks. Apparently people are just prone to irrational behavior.

[Ssanders224]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

 

Correct. I don't understand anyone's antipathy for the rule changes. It seems like a purely positive thing to me, but perhaps people who already invested in custom shop guns will have their feelings hurt.

 

 

Again, it seems that you have missed the crux of (most) peoples distaste for the rules changes. 

[B_RAD]

I'm betting most of the folks that are for these new changes aren't the better shooters. They think these changes are going to help them finish higher. They're not. There's gonna be a lot butt hurt when they spend $500 on a M&P and still get throat stomped. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by B_RAD

[JAFO]

I for one support the changes because it's easier to make equipment calls as an RO.  There were too many grey areas, non-sensical rulings, and people skirting (or ignoring) the lines.

[StuckinMS]

Rule changes don't bother me per say...it will help RO make calls without having to read someone's email that got " special" permission for their after market parts.  But from a competitor stand point:  It will not change the match results.  I learned real quick after making a comment along the lines " if that guy swapped guns with me, we would trade spots" so we did and yeah he still beat the neck out of me...only difference was he done it this time with a gun he had never shot before!  Talk about humble pie!  For those who think the most expensive toy wins, save your coin for more practice.  It will benefit you far more.  

[motosapiens]

18 hours ago, Ssanders224 said:

 

Again, it seems that you have missed the crux of (most) peoples distaste for the rules changes. 

you must be doing a poor job of explaining it. Try again, please. What is the cruz of (most) people's distaste for the rules change?

[motosapiens]

17 hours ago, B_RAD said:

I'm betting most of the folks that are for these new changes aren't the better shooters. They think these changes are going to help them finish higher. They're not. There's gonna be a lot butt hurt when they spend $500 on a M&P and still get throat stomped. 

 

 

i could care less about that. i care about making it easier to officiate, and simpler and less retarded.