Do you like the new Production rules?

[RJH]

As a sometimes production shooter, after thinking on it a while I finally voted and got to see the  results. I was not in the majority, and while I am not crazy about the rule changes, apparently most are. Maybe that is why the bod changed the rules, maybe the majority had been asking for this change? Idk, but it won't stop me from shooting production occasionally 

[MHicks]

I would prefer that production would be closer to a stock division. But, I don't  see how you can reasonably deal with compliance with all the available trigger work, hammers, etc. that are available.

[Dutchman195]

1 hour ago, MHicks said:

I would prefer that production would be closer to a stock division. But, I don't  see how you can reasonably deal with compliance with all the available trigger work, hammers, etc. that are available.

 

If you go to chrono and they shoot your gun and the trigger is stupid light, whip out a scale and weigh it. Manufactures have factory trigger weights on the website. Then its a true production division. 

Stop allowing gun modifications. Production is supposed to be 'off the shelf, out of the box'

[HoMiE]

17 minutes ago, Dutchman195 said:

 

If you go to chrono and they shoot your gun and the trigger is stupid light, whip out a scale and weigh it. Manufactures have factory trigger weights on the website. Then its a true production division. 

Stop allowing gun modifications. Production is supposed to be 'off the shelf, out of the box'

People were gaming production from its introduction so now it’s to the point where if you don’t have the latest custom shop long dust cover production gun that is 3x what a polymer gun cost. Life is too short to shoot off the shelf out of the box guns. 

[Jeff226]

Step in the right direction!  I like it.

[SCTaylor]

34 minutes ago, HoMiE said:

People were gaming production from its introduction so now it’s to the point where if you don’t have the latest custom shop long dust cover production gun that is 3x what a polymer gun cost. Life is too short to shoot off the shelf out of the box guns. 

 

I don't agree. My Tanfo Stock 2's were ~$900 and I've got $60? worth of parts in them. Not that much different from a Glock 34, Gen 4 at $600 box stock.

 

Now having the gun you love to shoot is another story on life's timeline.

 

Btw, I think the rule changes are stupid as horse plop. But those tweakers can try all sorts of parts and I'll still stomp their berries. 

[HoMiE]

2 hours ago, SCTaylor said:

 

I don't agree. My Tanfo Stock 2's were ~$900 and I've got $60? worth of parts in them. Not that much different from a Glock 34, Gen 4 at $600 box stock.

 

Now having the gun you love to shoot is another story on life's timeline.

 

Btw, I think the rule changes are stupid as horse plop. But those tweakers can try all sorts of parts and I'll still stomp their berries. 

I think a Stock 2 is way better than a stock glock. But once people realize equipment can only get you so far you won’t care if you throw aftermarket parts on a gun to try and stay somewhat competitive. 

[MacLethal]

I haven’t even been able to find the attachments for the BOD meeting regarding any rule changes whatsoever. Anyone have a link that works? The 2 in this thread are both an error page for the USPSA site.


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[IHAVEGAS]

Production goodness - cheapest ammo - low capacity thinking & reloading game - a stock gun can still win - accuracy matters a lot

+ 

Limited goodness - you can fix things that don't fit with a dremel - you can change the small bits and make the gun your own - rules are not as tough on r.o.'s

 

Can't see anything not to like. 

[IHAVEGAS]

2 hours ago, MacLethal said:

I haven’t even been able to find the attachments for the BOD meeting regarding any rule changes whatsoever. Anyone have a link that works? The 2 in this thread are both an error page for the USPSA site.


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Maybe this will work, no guarantees.

test17b.pdf

 

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by IHAVEGAS

[redpillregret]

This has me considering making a few modifications. I get Glock knuckle and the finger grooves have never worked for me.


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[B_RAD]

18 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:

Stop allowing gun modifications. Production is supposed to be 'off the shelf, out of the box'

It's too late. All those in favor of these changes are for them because they need all the help they can get.  C class members would rather stick a Apex trigger in a Glock rether than practice 15 min 3 days a week. 

 

If the Glock gives you the knuckle, you probably need to practice more. If you don't like finger grooves, pick another gun. 

 

These changes are lazy!  

[BritinUSA]

5 hours ago, MacLethal said:

I haven’t even been able to find the attachments for the BOD meeting regarding any rule changes whatsoever. Anyone have a link that works? The 2 in this thread are both an error page for the USPSA site.

 

You need to Logon first, then select Member Resources -> BOD Minutes

 

Then you will see this, the updated Appendices are near the end:

 

[mwc]

The production division has never really been a true "off the shelf" division.  As soon as one change was allowed that ended.  Given that it practically impossible to keep up with all the changes that are allowed/disallowed over all the different production platforms, I think that the new changes make it much easier to regulate than before. 

 

 

[IsaacB]

I am a CRO that does not shoot production very often. I run local level one matches where we have new shooters show up and shoot their carry guns.

 

I hate telling people that their Glock 19s are not legal for production because the undercut the trigger guard or removed the finger grooves.

 

I don't think that the new rules will help the Shadow 2/ Tanfo guns shoot any measurable amount better. I think it could help the plastic guns be more competitive.

 

I don't know if that makes the division better or worse overall. It makes it a lot easier to enforce though.

[Dutchman195]

4 minutes ago, IsaacB said:

I am a CRO that does not shoot production very often. I run local level one matches where we have new shooters show up and shoot their carry guns.

 

I hate telling people that their Glock 19s are not legal for production because the undercut the trigger guard or removed the finger grooves.

 

 

Yes telling people to go shoot limited kind of sucks, from a management position. BUT. Read the rules and know what your doing before you show up. Or show up knowing nothing and expecting to not take home HOA.

 

My first match the MD told me what I was shooting and looked at who I was shooting against and went 'yup i'm going to get murdered' Then I went and fixed the problem with learning the rules and making the gun legal in the correct division.  

[MacLethal]

 
You need to Logon first, then select Member Resources -> BOD Minutes
 
Then you will see this, the updated Appendices are near the end:
 

I’ll try that again, it didn’t work for me earlier. Thanks


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[B_RAD]

1 hour ago, IsaacB said:

I am a CRO that does not shoot production very often. I run local level one matches where we have new shooters show up and shoot their carry guns.

 

I hate telling people that their Glock 19s are not legal for production because the undercut the trigger guard or removed the finger grooves.

 

I don't think that the new rules will help the Shadow 2/ Tanfo guns shoot any measurable amount better. I think it could help the plastic guns be more competitive.

 

I don't know if that makes the division better or worse overall. It makes it a lot easier to enforce though.

Dude shows up with a g19 with double undercut?  He shoots Limited minor. How hard is that?  

 

I get what you're saying. However, I'd ask, should it be legal for me to show up with a G35 and a 9mm conversion barrel and shoot production?  

 

What about shooting a G20 with slide cuts, frame reductuon, a .40 barrel, and an sjc frame weight. If it's under the now 4 oz over listed weight it should be gtg, right?  Maybe not now but give it 5 years. 

 

Where do you draw the line?  Until the line gets moved again.  Yeah people have been gaming and it's "not really production the moment they allowed the first mod" but you got stop somewhere and you gotta stay there. 

 

This lim 10 lite minor is dumb. 

 

 

That's what they should call it. Limited 10 Lite Minor. 

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by B_RAD

[IsaacB]

Wow you guys take this personally.

 

Someone getting bumped because their carry gun had dermal work is different than someone building a race pistol.

 

Some people carry more often than they compete. I think the new rules are beneficial to those who see the sport as an auxiliary to their shooting life, vs. the center of it.

 

[SCTaylor]

2 hours ago, IsaacB said:

Wow you guys take this personally.

 

Someone getting bumped because their carry gun had dermal work is different than someone building a race pistol.

 

Some people carry more often than they compete. I think the new rules are beneficial to those who see the sport as an auxiliary to their shooting life, vs. the center of it.

 

 

Agreed with your point, but, I take this very personally. I'm sacrificing time from my family & work, a lot of money, and get personal satisfaction from being the best I can be. I don't like the new rules, at all.  I'd rather Production follow the IPSC model. Easy peezy.

[motosapiens]

23 hours ago, Dutchman195 said:

 

stop allowing gun modifications. Production is supposed to be 'off the shelf, out of the box'

 

that's just like... your opinion, man.

 

I don't think production was ever supposed to be off the shelf, out of the box. I thought it was just supposed to be based on common duty/carry guns, and it still is. the whole idea of no mods is imho pretty lame, and would only make actual common duty/carry guns uncompetitive, because everyone will buy custom shop cz's and tanfos instead of making a couple cheap mods to their m&p or glock.

[B_RAD]

23 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

that's just like... your opinion, man.

 

I don't think production was ever supposed to be off the shelf, out of the box. I thought it was just supposed to be based on common duty/carry guns, and it still is. the whole idea of no mods is imho pretty lame, and would only make actual common duty/carry guns uncompetitive, because everyone will buy custom shop cz's and tanfos instead of making a couple cheap mods to their m&p or glock.

You know a lot of folks carrying Stock 3?

 

Or even one?    

 

Not saying there's not someone out there. But I'd love to see a truthful survey on carry guns vs competition guns. Speaking for myself. I shoot CZ for production. But carry Glock 19. 

 

Just about everyone I know that carries, has some sort of polymer pistol. Yeah theres the metal framed carry guns out there and a lot of them but plastic is far more prevalent for carry as far as I can tell. 

 

To me, this argument is like the IDPA folks who act like IDPA is real life street fighting but carry a Glock (or don't carry at all) and shoot a 9mm 1911 with a huge arse magwell.  

 

 

To me production is supposed to be off the shelf with minor tweaking. Cleaning up trigger, more aggressive grips, and better sights.  That's it! 

 

But,.... I guess not!

Edited February 20, 2018 by B_RAD

[waktasz]

I wasn't for make any changes to the division, but it doesn't affect me in the slightest, so I don't really care at this point.

I might get some brass basepads now though, so I guess that affects my wallet

[redpillregret]

Wow you guys take this personally.
 
Someone getting bumped because their carry gun had dermal work is different than someone building a race pistol.
 
Some people carry more often than they compete. I think the new rules are beneficial to those who see the sport as an auxiliary to their shooting life, vs. the center of it.
 

I agree with all of this. This is largely the appeal.


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[Makdaddy]

I feel I could go ahead and make all these upgrades and still be the same lame C class shooter that i am, currently. I have realized practice and dry fire is the low hanging fruit for the USPSA game.  Non of this matters to me as a shooter and helps relieve some equity burden as an RO i guess. Now i can focus on half-cock vs fully de-cocked at MR...