Nationals Location

[Alan Meek]

Yes but the Open Nats were not part of that back to back, this was to suggest All five divisions and the 3gun in a back to back format.

[Chuck Anderson]

Actually I believe that was a Factory Gun Nationals, The Open/Limited back to back was held in Bend that year. A complete 5 division Nationals and a 3 Gun held back to back might be a bit of a push for most clubs. Thats a lot of work trying to change over.

[hopalong]

If USPSA was to host such a match, how long would that take?????

1 week of pistol matches,a weekend to kill the range workers trying to switch it over to 3 gun stuff and a week of 3 gun.....

Two weeks......I like shooting as much or more than the rest of you, but NOT for me !!!!

And I do shoot 3-gun and like it as much as pistol only.

HOP

[BDH]

Bottom line... if you know a venue that would be good for the Nationals, make sure the President is aware of it.  Be prepared to be able to tell him

-- how many bays and stages it can support

-- what work is required to make the range "ready"

-- whether there is sufficient "local talent" for things like setup and range services

-- whether there are sufficient assets (steel, walls, etc) to put on the match

-- whether there is sufficient room for parking for 300-500 competitors

-- plus administrative spaces (stats, shooters meeting, etc)

-- plus vendor space

-- whether or not there is a town nearby with adequate hotel space

-- which can be reserved in blocks at reasonable rates

-- and is near an airport - preferably within a couple hour drive of a "hub" airport

-- etc, etc, etc

-- plus... all the intangibles, like

-- is it an "interesting" place to go?

-- is the weather likely to be good?

-- are there things for the family to do?

-- are there things to do after the shooting day is over?

-- etc, etc, etc...

The last "thing" I'll mention - but separate from the "criteria", because it isn't one - is... does the town have any interest in supporting the match in some way?  Because, while it is *not* a requirement, anything that the venue can do that will help put the match on the ground more efficiently (and more cost effectively) will probably jump their bid up the list.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First, great overall post. Second, I'm glad that you laid out a lot of the criteria for a suitable venue. Hopefully, several clubs will voice interest in putting a Nationals on the ground.

Personally, I think that Barry is tough to beat (but the heat was unbelievable this year ), and I'd be all for seeing Nationals move around. Maybe instead of a five year contract next time, just make it a two year contract? From the poll is sounds like there is support for the NW (Bend), SW (Vegas), Central US (Barry), NE (Huntingdon), and SE (Frostproof). With two years at each venue, that covers us for the next decade!

[Jim Norman]

IF we were to move around as in the above post. I would suggest that we go East, West, Central, Southwest, Southeast and repeat, or some other arrangement that doesn't put the Nationals on the East or West Coast for 4 years in a row.

Much as I dislike Barry/Quincy as a vaaation spot, It is great for a Nationals strictly form a shooting point of view. Very little to distract you. Fairly easy to reach for most of the country. How many shooters can make it to Barry in a Single long day of driving, read maximum of 16 hours?

Jim Norman

[Wakal]

I don't think anyone is saying that Barry isn't reasonably central. Sure beats Bend, although that drive wasn't bad (from Texas) either.

However, I have a real problem with putting my money in a dedicated anti-gun state like Illinois. Pointless whiny rants about "hunting" aside, any state that does not recognise the Second Amendment is not a good spot to host the national championships for the penultimate combat shooting sport. Any state that won't allow its subjects (note: not citizens) to BUY AMMUNTION (much less a (gasp) firearm) without a "mother may I" card and the proper paperwork from The State...is not not a good spot to host the national championships for the penultimate combat shooting sport. We have been pouring our dollars down that rathole for long enough, and the rats don't care. We need to move somewhere that appreciates FIREARMS and recognizes FREEDOM, not Illinois or any other "serf" state.

Alex

[Nik Habicht]

Per Brian's guidelines, let's leave politics and gun rights out of this discussion.

[wgnoyes]

Well.... I'll share a story. I was sitting in the lobby of the Holiday Inn uploading match results to USPSA and an older gentleman dressed in running clothes and very sweaty from an afternoon workout walked up to me and asked me where I was from. I told him Atlanta and said I was here with the United States Practical Shooting Association for their National Championships at PASA in Barry. "Oh, that's a great bunch of people and a fine organization." He wished me well and left.

Point being, we directly benefit the economies of Quincy and Barry much more so than we do the state coffers in Springfield, and you won't find a whole lot of sympathy for gun grabbing in either of the former two.

[stingerjg]

my vote is for Rio Salado. Barry is alot closer but Rio would be a good alternative.

[XRe]

The folks in Barry really made me feel welcome both times I've been there, I'll say that. I'd agree with Bill on that one. There's something nice about being in a place that appreciates your business in that fashion.

I appreciate the desire to have it somewhere a little less politically correct, too... and somewhere that has something for the family to do. I took my wife along the second time, and she was about as bored as a person can get...

Don't really have a preference, I guess. Lemme shoot *somewhere*....

[Wakal]

Try again, friend. I'm not talking politics here...just the truth. We need to reward states that follow the United States Constitution, and not spend our money in states that have their own cute little theory of how guns and people who like to shoot "should" be treated.

And the bottom line: IL is anti-gun. CA is anti-gun. MA anti-gun. HI is anti-gun. WE SHOULD NOT REWARD THOSE STATES WITH OUR MONEY. Lets hold the nationals in America for change.

No politics. Just facts. Politics would be talking about which party does (or says they will won't and do anyway) ban guns, which party hates guns, and which just ignores guns...that would be politics.

Commenting on the ANTI-GUN situation in various less-than-free states are not politics

Alex

[spd522]

Gotta agree with Wakal on this.

Craig

[SmittyFL]

Pointless whiny rants about [ ] aside

"Hey Kettle, it's Alex........ you're black!"

[brother bad]

Gotta agree  with Wakal on this.

Craig

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

otoh, how do we 'educate' non gun people about how much fun shooting can be? moreover, the folks in quincy see all of us swarming over their town for a week or so and realize that not all 'gun nuts' are camo-wearing, militia-type neanderthals who drive around in dented pickup trucks covered with anti government bumper stickers.

just my .02. i've always enjoyed my stays in quincy, tho i'm glad we don't stay at the days inn anymore.

[Jim Norman]

it is a conumdrum. Do we go to Illinios and make a "Good Show: of shooters and hopefully get positive press and maybe effect a positive change? OR do we go elsewhere and completely lose another state to the hoplophobes of the world?

True, I would like a destination that is equally viable as a family vacation spot, a shooting destination and is still drivable in one long day from home. Does such a place exist? Franks i Frostproof is 24 hours away. It is not central to the population, same for Bend, Reno, Arizona, East Huntington, Fredricksburg and Las Vegas. Admittedly, East Huntington and Fredricksburg are closer to me than Barry or any of the others, but I really think that we should be looking at several items.

First, a two year max at a venue, repeatable only after a two year absence, An East, West, Central, Southwest rotation of venues. (Obviously determined by the available venues.) As has been said, Quincey/PASA/Barry step up and we have a place, does this exist elsewhere? Would Camp Perry welcome us? Would the Whittington Center? Many of the major shooting venues think we are not representative of real shooting sports. We are the people that their mothers warned about and therefore we are not welcome in their houses.

Jim Norman

[wgnoyes]

Try again, friend.  ...

And the bottom line: IL is anti-gun.  CA is anti-gun.  MA anti-gun.  HI is anti-gun.  WE SHOULD NOT REWARD THOSE STATES WITH OUR MONEY.  Lets hold the nationals in America for change.

...

I don't need to try again; my post stands. And I'll say further in their defense, lumping IL and even MA in on the same level as The Peoples' Socialist Democratic Republic of Kalifornya is an insult to IL and MA. My opinion and no offense intended to anyone living there, Sacramento has gone so totally off the deep end with their hysterical laws and proposed laws (serially-numbered brass and bullets, jeez!) that I wouldn't bring a tray of one-fired primers into THAT state. Anybody ever note the irony that the CA state flag is a bear chasing after a Red Star off in the Left?

And no one cares about Hawaii. That's as non-centrally located as you can get!

[outerlimits]

Try again, friend.  ...

And the bottom line: IL is anti-gun.  CA is anti-gun.  MA anti-gun.  HI is anti-gun.  WE SHOULD NOT REWARD THOSE STATES WITH OUR MONEY.  Lets hold the nationals in America for change.

...

I don't need to try again; my post stands. And I'll say further in their defense, lumping IL and even MA in on the same level as The Peoples' Socialist Democratic Republic of Kalifornya is an insult to IL and MA. My opinion and no offense intended to anyone living there, Sacramento has gone so totally off the deep end with their hysterical laws and proposed laws (serially-numbered brass and bullets, jeez!) that I wouldn't bring a tray of one-fired primers into THAT state. Anybody ever note the irony that the CA state flag is a bear chasing after a Red Star off in the Left?

And no one cares about Hawaii. That's as non-centrally located as you can get!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

go ahead and rip my state-i hate it here as well, and in 4 yrs i'll be gone. but don't rip off the shooters from those states. i've been in this sport since 1984 and have shot all over the country-including hawaii last month. shooters in all those states are loyal to the sport and deserve consideration-they don't sit in the legislature and for sure don't vote for those pukes that pass these laws. remember, we are the minority.

i agree you should not bring a tray of once-fired primers here-bring me a whole sleeve-i'll put them to good use...

[Flexmoney]

[Moderator hat on:]

Folks, we are not going to go down the path of "this state sucks vs. that state sucks".

We are indeed stretching the intent of the forum. Brian didn't start this place as a venue to work out USPSA issues. He started it as a place where seekers of knowledge could share information with the goal of improving their shooting.

If we can't keep this thread moving forward, in a positive direction, then it will be closed.

With that out of the way...

Camp Perry was mentioned. Anybody have any information on Camp Perry?

[Sestock]

Maybe Mike Voight should be actively looking into other venues rather than waiting for them to make a proposal.

[wgnoyes]

Okay....

Anyway, as far as Camp Perry goes, no direct knowledge there, but some similar experience watching Glock put on an annual springtime GSSF match at Ft. Benning prior to Sep 11 2001. It was always under control of Benning military range officers who would shut down the whole show before we could go downrange to reset steel ("All ranges: cease fire, cease fire!" blaring out on loud speakers from the tower all day long). As I recall, we also used to have a tactical match of some sort or other at Benning once a month, so civilian groups can (or could) get in on military bases. (Yes, I know, CMP is a civilian group now, but it did offshoot from DCM.) It would I guess be a matter of working it out with Perry, and of course scheduling around their own national championships in July and Aug. I wonder how much complicated prop building you could do there. I also understand that Perry can be hotter'n'hell in the summer, too, just like (quite frankly) anywhere else.

[GeorgeInNePa]

Would Camp Perry welcome us? Would the Whittington Center? Many of the major shooting venues think we are not representative of real shooting sports. We are the people that their mothers warned about and therefore we are not welcome in their houses.

Jim Norman

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speak for yourself, Jim. My people love me.

[Flexmoney]

Does anybody have any knowledge on who actually runs/owns Camp Perry?

Is it the Ohio National Guard? Does NRA control it somehow?

[shred]

Does it even have side berms? All the pictures I see are vast wide open ranges.

[Kevin Kline]

I remember attending a class with Todd back in 97 (I believe) and Blackwater Lodge was telling us then that they had 13 berms and they were building another 15-16 because they wanted to host the World Shoot in the next 10 years. I havent been to Blackwater since then, anybody know what progress they have made?

It was a nice facility when I was there. Then again, I rather enjoyed going to Barry and staying in Hannibal. I drove up with my brother in law and brought my son. Was a great little vacation for "the boys." The drive wasnt that bad either. Stayed over in Nashville at a buddy's house on the way up and back. Of course, I'd love it in Frostproof also, but I didnt mind the drive to Barry.

[eric nielsen]

Maybe Mike Voight should be actively looking into other venues rather than waiting for them to make a proposal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Along those lines...NASCAR was not approached by Nextel. Someone working for NASCAR placed a cold call to Nextel, among other companies. That worked out pretty well.