davidwiz Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 (edited) Cheap flights Not from the east coast that I know of. Not to mention the hassle of flying with guns and the (now) bigger hassle of flying with ammo. My gf and I few from Philly to LV a few months ago and it was $200 round-trip for each. When I few to Barry for the Nationals last year, it was over $300 round-trip from Philly. To address flying with firearms, I flew from Philly to Phoenix a few months ago for the SMM3G w/ 3 guns and a boat load of ammo and didn't have a single problem. I was not impressed by the range at Barry. It didn't come close to living up to the hype. -David Edited July 4, 2005 by Shooter Grrl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Isn't there any place closer to the center of the US that isn't in anti-gun state? How about some place in Texas, Missouri or Ohio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 I will agree on a few points about Vegas not being what it used to be (if you stay on the strip), but Fremont street is what it used to be. The 4 Queens, the Las Vegas Club and the Frontier all offer rooms in the $60-90 range if there isn't a series of large events in town that has the place booked solid. ... Do those prices hold up for friday and saturday night stays? Every hotel I know there jacks their rates up astronomically for those 2 nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Depends on whether you are booking across times when rooms are tight. My wife always uses the internet to locate deals. We have never had to pay extra rates on weekends unless we are on top of something like NAB or COMDEX (I usually go to those conventions and know what a real crowded Vegas is like). -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrell Spicer Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 How about John Shaw's place in Tunica, MS or the Blackwater range in VA? The only drawback to Blackwater is that they might be a little busy down there for a few years...and there are not a lot of hotels close. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> John Shaw's place is going to busy for a while too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 This is not a comment about any particular listed ranges in this thread, but there are often drawbacks which you cannot see unless you are involved in the business aspects of the negotiation: 1. Range use fees. When you are dealing with "professional ranges", particularly those with no particular allegiance to USPSA, things can get expensive quickly. 2. Length of contract. Is not unheard of for a range looking to be a USPSA nationals venue to tell USPSA that any discussion will be entered into only if USPSA accepts a non-negotiable premise of a "N" consecutive year obligation. Under some circumstances, this can be a reasonable demand (for example, if the range is offering to make inprovements for USPSA and needs to amortize it over several years). 3. Other financials - local hotel costs; terms for hotel comps for USPSA match staff; stage construction costs and logistics; etc. It's very easy to conclude that a particular range would be "great" and declare that the only downside is ________, however, business/financial/contractual terms can be a very valid but non-obvious obstacle. Financial negotiations are one of the few things that USPSA must do in confidence as a matter of standard business practice, so the board is not always at liberty to explain the exact reason a particular range did not work out. It is also important that any range be able to negotiate with USPSA in good faith, and not have to worry about getting negative publicity with USPSA membership just because they made an offer the board did not find financially or logistically acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 There is no one place that is equa-distant to all members. The best we can hope for is to hava match that is reachable by the largest number of members as well as being in a friendly place, with hotels and maybe even something besides the match as a draw. Look at driving distances from Seattle, Central FL, Maine and maybe Souther CA. Pick ranges, if avaialble that all fall with in a circ;e of accesability. Just as an execise, I mapped out a circle of 1500 miles from Augusta , ME, Miami FL, Seattle, WA, and San Deigo, CA. Barry falls just out side the western circles, but only slightly. Omaha, NE is almost dead center in the area of convergence. Also included, Topeka and Wichita, KA, as well as Lincoln, NE and Souix City. There are of course other cities, this is just a quick list. Anyone here have inof on major shooting facilities in this general area? If we expand the search criteria to include cities coverd by only three of the cirlces, we greatly expand the number of avialable places. This puts the match in mostly friendly territory, in country where you can get a really good steak and for the most part reach in two days drive time from anywhere in the US. Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 From what I've heard/seen, if the U.S. Shooting Academy goes online, I think the debate on the most qualified facility goes out the window. Centrally located in the US, 10 minutes from an international airport, just outside of a major metro area, 40+ shooting bays....the list goes on and on. I'd really like to see it happen. Fingers crossed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 From what I've heard/seen, if the U.S. Shooting Academy goes online, I think the debate on the most qualified facility goes out the window. Centrally located in the US, 10 minutes from an international airport, just outside of a major metro area, 40+ shooting bays....the list goes on and on. I'd really like to see it happen. Fingers crossed.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oklahoma is OK.......hehe. Prefer PA, but having lived in Ok and being an OU grad, works for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickpony Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Thanks for popping in Phil! Do tell us more about the awesome new facility planned for the Tulsa area? Oh, and congrats on your victory in Limited at Area III Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I am a little biased (ok a lot) about Missoula because they have a major price range of hotels, all the bars are casinos, camping is available and the view is a rival to Bend. Vacation venues include Yellow Stone National Park, Glacier National Park, the Bison Range, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, a restored 1800's chapel, Flat Head Lake; 5 mi wide X 30 mi long. It's less than 10 mi from town. I have been told that it is not the easiest town to get connecting flights to but you would be landing in the same state as the match. Very gun friendly, recriprical agreements with 23 states for CCW. Area 1 was 11 stages of only field courses with the chrono using another field course. With a different allocation of resources and some speed courses, I think 16 stages are a real possibility. We have two mottos "God's Country" & " The Last Best Place" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 For those of you who came to area 1 in Missoula you might have notiecd that it would be a great place for three gun nats. 10+ pistol bays, 3 50 yard bays, 3 100 yard bays and 2 300 yard bays. I don't know about the clubs desire to host the match however. Flying here can suck price wise but if you book in advance it is not bad. On your way out the TSA guys are great. I flew to Denver a few months ago and checked my pistol to shoot in Aurora. I taped the key to the required locks on to the pistol case so they wouldn't cut them off and the TSA guy came to the resturant to give me the key back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I'm not the authority on the U.S. Shooting Academy, but I know who is. You can email tomfee@usshootingacademy.com. He probably has a bit more knowledge on the subject. I keep checking the site to see if he's released some updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 For those of you who came to area 1 in Missoula you might have notiecd that it would be a great place for three gun nats. 10+ pistol bays, 3 50 yard bays, 3 100 yard bays and 2 300 yard bays. I don't know about the clubs desire to host the match however. Flying here can suck price wise but if you book in advance it is not bad. On your way out the TSA guys are great. I flew to Denver a few months ago and checked my pistol to shoot in Aurora. I taped the key to the required locks on to the pistol case so they wouldn't cut them off and the TSA guy came to the resturant to give me the key back. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was once delayed in the Phoenix airport when I was paged to give an airport employee a key to give the TSA which has the scanner buried in a back room somwhere. I now carry a spare key with me an a note prewritten on a business card which reads "TSA - this is a spare key, please lock in luggage after you complete your inspection" - which would have allowed me to proceed to the gate rather than wait for my key to be returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 ...I just hope that a PRO GUN state will be able to meet the proper financial negotations and economic incentives! Illinois It disgusts me that, if a USPSA member wants to compete in the Big Show, that the USPSA member is forced to throw money into the anti-gun, anti-freedom crowd's big old tax-collecting wallet. FOID, indeed. Don't lump Quincy/Barry (or the rest of Illinois) in the same cesspool of socialism where you'll find Chicago roiling about. State laws come out of Springfield, but the laws are influenced (I would think) more than anything else by Chicago and Richard Daley, clear on the other side of the state. You won't get a whole lot of smpathy for gun control in Quincy or Barry, they want us there, and I have no problems contributing to THEIR local economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I voted for Barry! Centrally located to all shooters in the country, reasonable hotel prices, and only an hour and a half drive from the major airport. Since MY family are all shooters - extra activities are not a problem for us - we go to the nationals to shoot, if we wanna sightsee, we go on vacation to sightsee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 My gf and I few from Philly to LV a few months ago and it was $200 round-trip for each. When I few to Barry for the Nationals last year, it was over $300 round-trip from Philly. Did you fly into Quincy or St. Louis? Just wondering; puddle-jumper legs always jack the price way up. We've NEVER gotten as low as $200 ATL to LV, and Cindy shops the hell out priceline and the other travel services. To address flying with firearms, I flew from Philly to Phoenix a few months ago for the SMM3G w/ 3 guns and a boat load of ammo and didn't have a single problem. You got lucky. Delta more often than not weighs ammo now, and we've taken to shipping it on ahead, and we're not the only ones. Airlines care about the 11 pounds now, and you would not have been a happy person had you lost the coin toss and they asked you about ammo. The worst experience we ever had was coming back [DRIFT] from Kansas City after last year's Area 3. The little bitchy snit in check-in just damned wasn't going to take ammo contained in MTM boxes because it didn't match Delta's internal regs of "metal or fiber" containers, and this was even though a TSA agent was standing RIGHT NEXT TO HER telling her OVER AND OVER that the MTM boxes were fine. She finally relented when we told her "okay, you want to keep the ammo, fine. Get a coffee can or a plastic bag or clear a place on your countertop so we can dump it out. You want it so bad, you can have the ammo but we're keeping the MTM boxes!" Second worst: coming back from St. Louis (a PASA 3-Gun Nationals). TSA scanned the long gun case, opened it up in our presense, rooted around through it, then closed it, turned it over, and opened up bottom up dumping stuff on the floor. Why? "We have to make sure they're nothing under the foam!" So your behemoth scanners are THAT poor, huh? I was not impressed by the range at Barry. It didn't come close to living up to the hype. ... Nicest range I"VE ever been to, for what its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I voted for Barry! Centrally located to all shooters in the country, reasonable hotel prices, and only an hour and a half drive from the major airport. Since MY family are all shooters - extra activities are not a problem for us - we go to the nationals to shoot, if we wanna sightsee, we go on vacation to sightsee! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> THAT'S RIGHT! YEAH!! "Nothing to do in Quincy"; so what! We spend a whole day at the range, and you've got just enough energy to go back to the hotel, eat, maybe have a drink with other shooters, and then goto bed, because you gotta get up in just a few hours and do it all again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Did you fly into Quincy or St. Louis? Just wondering; puddle-jumper legs always jack the price way up. We've NEVER gotten as low as $200 ATL to LV, and Cindy shops the hell out priceline and the other travel services. Flew to St. Louis, then puddle-jumper to Quincy (or whatever the local airport is called). Otherwise, it was renting a car for 7+ days in St. Louis at a cost of hundreds of dollars plus a 2+ hr trip from St. Louis to Quincy. To address flying with firearms, I flew from Philly to Phoenix a few months ago for the SMM3G w/ 3 guns and a boat load of ammo and didn't have a single problem. You got lucky. Delta more often than not weighs ammo now, and we've taken to shipping it on ahead, and we're not the only ones. Airlines care about the 11 pounds now, and you would not have been a happy person had you lost the coin toss and they asked you about ammo. When I went to the SMM3G, I few on 2 different airlines (AirWest and Frontier) and it was smooth with both of them. The only question I got about my ammo was comming back on one leg, they just asked me where it was packed. Never asked to see my ammo or weight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark dye Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I voted for Frostproof FL because I truly enjoyed the wonderful facilities there, although there are a number of ranges that have the physical size to host the nats. Hotels, travel, climate, etc. are probably bigger obstacles. I for one whould love to see the match move around a little, but this is certainly harder from a logistics standpoint. One range that I have not seen mentioned is the Clark Range in LA. They have hosted the 3-gun a few times. I am probably biased though because I worked for the Clarks for several years. Also, I am not sure if the Clarks/Miculeks are interested in hosting the nats. Mark Dye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 Vegas got my vote. Every time I've been there it's been great weather. Even when it's 100 degrees it's not that bad (it's a dry heat). I'm not sure how long the Vegas range is going to be there though. Last time I was there the houses were getting kind of close and I've heard it's a lot worse now. Bend would be another choice for me since it's only about three hours away. Frostproof because Frank puts on such a great match. I would love to go back to Missoula or Raton for a 3 Gun but I'm not sure if there's enogh infrastructure there for a full Pistol Nationals and travel would be more difficult for a lot of people. Rio Salado, another great choice, if they could find a weekend available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmist10 Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I know this will sound crazy but... If the ranges can handle the match - why not allow the Handgun Nationals to rotate through the various Area clubs every few years? This would do wonders for boosting local participation (grass roots support!), allow folks to see big names that usually don't come to that Area, and maybe - just maybe - create an increase in positive attention to the organization and what it can do for a local area monetarily. Money into the local economies will do wonders for local government support of shooting sports. Pump thousands into a local economy and the local clubs may get more support for monthly matches, increased membership, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I voted for "OTHER"....Clarks Range in the FALL Good easy to get to, by Car, Bus, Train, Plane..... FALL in Louisana is OK as it is cooler, less bugs, lower chance of rain....... Shreveport is large enough and has several other things to do for those who want to do other things, I myself go for the shooting and don't really care about "Tourist" attractions. I also think that the US Nationals should be the Last of the Major USPSA matches with the Area matches leading up to it, Section and "other" matches would just have to fight for a spot as usuall. The date of the US nationals should become "standard" as in the 2nd weekend of November "no matter what" then people can plan for it way ahead of time. Just my little bit of half cents.... Hopalong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Standardizing the date would cut down on the number of ranges that could host the Nationals. September in Bend is not bad, November and you'll be driving a snowmobile to the range. My guess is the same would apply for Missoula. August-September in Vegas/Arizona is still a bit on the hot side for me, but November at Rio Salado...perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 The second weekend of November is the Desert Classic for almost 20 years. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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