Max Michel interview regarding making changes to the sports

[lcs]

I have to admit that I did not watch the youtube video before I made my previous posts.

I just watched it and while Max is a extremely talented shooter, he DQ'd on this subject. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone being able to voice their opinion makes the USA great....and you can also step in a deep pile of sh... saying anything you want.

I totally disagree with everything he said.

[Jake Di Vita]

There are certainly places to make your stand, it amazes me that so many of you think this is one of those places.

The fact that someone actually implied that not shooting humanoid targets in competition is unamerican illustrates how ridiculously dogmatic this is.

[louu]

I just got back from the supermarket and they were completely out of tinfoil!!!

Now I know where it all went...

[motosapiens]

The fact that someone actually implied that not shooting humanoid targets in competition is unamerican illustrates how ridiculously dogmatic this is.

you have misunderstood imho. What is unamerican is forcing someone else to shoot different targets because their targets hurt your feelings.

[lcs]

There are certainly places to make your stand, it amazes me that so many of you think this is one of those places.

The fact that someone actually implied that not shooting humanoid targets in competition is unamerican illustrates how ridiculously dogmatic this is.

Nobody is saying it is unamerican to shoot at anything but metric targets. Your really stretching.

The metric target was here first. It is the "politically correct" crowd that want to change everything we do. The sport of practical shooting originated from competitions in California in the 1950s with the goal of developing handgun skills for defensive use. USPSA wasn't defensive enough so you now have IDPA. IPSC evolved because the International crowd is more PC.

I for one, do not want to see USPSA evolve into anything close to IPSC. If Phil Strader and Max think that is the way to go--great. Head to Europe and grow IPSC.

[kernelofwisdom]

How can anyone think there is a significant television market awaiting USPSA if only the target shape were slightly different (and only 9mm and easier scoring)?

People don't come in any sort of numbers to spectate any match at all ever and it's free to do it!

Moreover, handgun/carbine action shooting is not a dollars bonanza even where the targets are shaped differently. So the evidence seems a target change wouldn't do anything to "grow" the sport. Change it if you want to change it but speculation about big sponsors and TV contracts is pure speculation flying against empirical evidence.

If you want to change it under the proposition that it insulates against anti-gun legislation ok though it'd be nice to see some evidence that it would help. And if that analysis should be applied to targets shouldn't it be applied generally? Is there going to be a committee to assess whether any particular type of stage design or division is beneficial or harmful to the perception of shooting to the general public?

It seems like USPSA is overflowing with ideas for change (which can be good) either supported or agitated against on pure speculation and evidence free theories more than stances built on any research or facts. The higher the certainty, it appears the less likely any research was done.

[kernelofwisdom]

There are certainly places to make your stand, it amazes me that so many of you think this is one of those places.

The fact that someone actually implied that not shooting humanoid targets in competition is unamerican illustrates how ridiculously dogmatic this is.

Nobody is saying it is unamerican to shoot at anything but metric targets. Your really stretching.

The metric target was here first. It is the "politically correct" crowd that want to change everything we do. The sport of practical shooting originated from competitions in California in the 1950s with the goal of developing handgun skills for defensive use. USPSA wasn't defensive enough so you now have IDPA. IPSC evolved because the International crowd is more PC.

I for one, do not want to see USPSA evolve into anything close to IPSC. If Phil Strader and Max think that is the way to go--great. Head to Europe and grow IPSC.

Yes or they can start an organization/game not based on practical shooting but rather the vision of a general public, television friendly shooting sport and rake in the dollars as the crowds gather!

Amazing bowling has survived with that head on the pin!

[MilkMyDuds]

Before we deal with the target shape changes, we first need to address the issue of all USPSA targets are "brown" and noshoots are "white". I believe that's the reason why very few Hispanic/native Indians/Asians are participating in this sport.

Yes I am trolling.

Edited February 16, 2016 by MilkMyDuds

[Neomet]

The concept of changing a target type to win the favor of people who dislike anything to do with firearms is like changing from a carport to a garage in the hopes that the eco-sensitive will love your Hellcat Challenger.

That being said put whatever targets up you like. They are still targets.

[cnote]

Shooting USA is on the Outdoor channel and regularly covers competitive shooting events, including both USPSA and IDPA with the head box targetsOutdoor channel also has American Rifleman, NRA All Access, Shooting Gallery, and Shootout Lane, all of which have covered competition shooting, including USPSA and IDPAESPN pretty much gave up on all shooting-related programming some time ago. Unless they get new ownership, there likely will not be any shooting-related sports on ESPN.Let's face it, people aren't likely to become pro-gun (or even neutral towards guns) and shooting because of the targets some obscure group of shooting enthusiasts use or don't use.

^^^^^^

[Sarge]

There are certainly places to make your stand, it amazes me that so many of you think this is one of those places.

The fact that someone actually implied that not shooting humanoid targets in competition is unamerican illustrates how ridiculously dogmatic this is.

Nobody is saying it is unamerican to shoot at anything but metric targets. Your really stretching.

The metric target was here first. It is the "politically correct" crowd that want to change everything we do. The sport of practical shooting originated from competitions in California in the 1950s with the goal of developing handgun skills for defensive use. USPSA wasn't defensive enough so you now have IDPA. IPSC evolved because the International crowd is more PC.

I for one, do not want to see USPSA evolve into anything close to IPSC. If Phil Strader and Max think that is the way to go--great. Head to Europe and grow IPSC.

Yes or they can start an organization/game not based on practical shooting but rather the vision of a general public, television friendly shooting sport and rake in the dollars as the crowds gather!

Amazing bowling has survived with that head on the pin!

Bowling still on TV?

[PatriotMRD]

If you think the way IPSC does it is the way to go, then, go shoot only pure IPSC matches. Start some pure IPSC matches here in the states and go shoot those leave the rest of us alone instead of trying to change USPSA into pure IPSC. The non-shooting industry money still won't be there. The media will still hate and ignore you and anti-gun politicians will still try to ban the guns no matter how brightly colored and shiny they are.

[PatriotMRD]

There are certainly places to make your stand, it amazes me that so many of you think this is one of those places.

The fact that someone actually implied that not shooting humanoid targets in competition is unamerican illustrates how ridiculously dogmatic this is.

Nobody is saying it is unamerican to shoot at anything but metric targets. Your really stretching.

The metric target was here first. It is the "politically correct" crowd that want to change everything we do. The sport of practical shooting originated from competitions in California in the 1950s with the goal of developing handgun skills for defensive use. USPSA wasn't defensive enough so you now have IDPA. IPSC evolved because the International crowd is more PC.

I for one, do not want to see USPSA evolve into anything close to IPSC. If Phil Strader and Max think that is the way to go--great. Head to Europe and grow IPSC.

Yes or they can start an organization/game not based on practical shooting but rather the vision of a general public, television friendly shooting sport and rake in the dollars as the crowds gather!

Amazing bowling has survived with that head on the pin!

Bowling still on TV?

It's on ESPN 8 "The Ocho" Tuesdays at 3am.

[Sarge]

There are certainly places to make your stand, it amazes me that so many of you think this is one of those places.

The fact that someone actually implied that not shooting humanoid targets in competition is unamerican illustrates how ridiculously dogmatic this is.

Nobody is saying it is unamerican to shoot at anything but metric targets. Your really stretching.

The metric target was here first. It is the "politically correct" crowd that want to change everything we do. The sport of practical shooting originated from competitions in California in the 1950s with the goal of developing handgun skills for defensive use. USPSA wasn't defensive enough so you now have IDPA. IPSC evolved because the International crowd is more PC.

I for one, do not want to see USPSA evolve into anything close to IPSC. If Phil Strader and Max think that is the way to go--great. Head to Europe and grow IPSC.

Yes or they can start an organization/game not based on practical shooting but rather the vision of a general public, television friendly shooting sport and rake in the dollars as the crowds gather!

Amazing bowling has survived with that head on the pin!

Bowling still on TV?

It's on ESPN 8 "The Ocho" Tuesdays at 3am.

Genuinely funny!!

[pskys2]

Max is a pro shooter who wants more money from his chosen profession which is OK. He should focus on making pro am more like Uspsa not try to make Uspsa like pro am. The talk of making it more commercial subverts its original intent. Better to start a new organization, of course getting others to do the leg work and not interfering with his training or livelihood is better for him.

[Jake Di Vita]

The fact that someone actually implied that not shooting humanoid targets in competition is unamerican illustrates how ridiculously dogmatic this is.

you have misunderstood imho. What is unamerican is forcing someone else to shoot different targets because their targets hurt your feelings.

I can see that it may have been meant that way, but to me it isn't a measure of feelings. I personally don't care what target we shoot at, the question to me is will a change facilitate growing or bettering the sport? People will have widely different ideas of what better is in this case but I'd love to see the sport in a position where it was a viable career path for more than half a dozen people. I don't know if changing targets will be the genesis of good or bad changes or if nothing at all will change, but I'm certainly open to at least talking about it instead of just threatening to take my ball and go home. One could make the argument that people's feelings are being hurt by the suggestion of changing the targets.

I personally much prefer USPSA to IPSC in most things. I also think we can find a middle ground that may be beneficial to shooters as a whole with minimal concessions.

[Darqusoull13]

Here's a question. If changing the target to the IPSC style headless targets was the only concession to allowing IPSC style shooting events to be featured in the X-Games, would you be in favor of doing it?

In the video Max classifies action shooting as an "extreme sport." The X-Games IS extreme sports and they reach an insane number of people worldwide in comparison to any current televised programming featuring action shooting. Live attendance alone at the 2015 X-Games was 138,000 people with live online and televised numbers in the millions. Can you imagine the quality and quantity of junior athletes you could attract to the sport if action shooting was a part of the X-Games? How many kids could you help transition from playing the latest "Call of Duty" to learning proper firearm handling and actually shooting a match?

The list of sponsors for the 2016 X-Games includes AT&T, Coors Light, Intel, LifeProof, America’s Navy, GoPro, Harley-Davidson, Jeep, Monster Energy, Oakley, Polaris, Skype and Xbox. With sponsorship like that backing a match, can you imagine the quality of stages? Forget the match itself, how many local matches could be helped out with the kind of financial infusion sponsorships of that size would bring to USPSA?

I really don’t care what the cardboard targets look like. I care about exposing as many people to shooting in a positive way as possible. Every person I’ve brought out to try “action shooting” as a fun day at the range has done two things: left with a big shit eating grin and asked if they can come to the next match.

[zhunter]

IF we could tap into the Call of Duty folks we would be in great shape, there are millions of them

[kernelofwisdom]

Here's a question. If changing the target to the IPSC style headless targets was the only concession to allowing IPSC style shooting events to be featured in the X-Games, would you be in favor of doing it?

In the video Max classifies action shooting as an "extreme sport." The X-Games IS extreme sports and they reach an insane number of people worldwide in comparison to any current televised programming featuring action shooting. Live attendance alone at the 2015 X-Games was 138,000 people with live online and televised numbers in the millions. Can you imagine the quality and quantity of junior athletes you could attract to the sport if action shooting was a part of the X-Games? How many kids could you help transition from playing the latest "Call of Duty" to learning proper firearm handling and actually shooting a match?

The list of sponsors for the 2016 X-Games includes AT&T, Coors Light, Intel, LifeProof, America’s Navy, GoPro, Harley-Davidson, Jeep, Monster Energy, Oakley, Polaris, Skype and Xbox. With sponsorship like that backing a match, can you imagine the quality of stages? Forget the match itself, how many local matches could be helped out with the kind of financial infusion sponsorships of that size would bring to USPSA?

I really don’t care what the cardboard targets look like. I care about exposing as many people to shooting in a positive way as possible. Every person I’ve brought out to try “action shooting” as a fun day at the range has done two things: left with a big shit eating grin and asked if they can come to the next match.

If X games said here's a giant contract conditional on the target change that's a no brainer. But I don't think that's the carrot being dangled for the head chopping.

[kernelofwisdom]

IF we could tap into the Call of Duty folks we would be in great shape, there are millions of them

Yes - Call of Duty is so popular because you never shoot at a humanoid target!* :-D

To tap into those guys the targets would have to be shaped exactly like humans and blow up and bleed when you shoot them. No CoD guy (and their are MINORITIES on CoD) gives a rip about a cardboard box target whether it does or doesn't have a bump on it.

*I realize you aren't saying that but actually I think CoD is a great example that young people etc. do not abhor graphic violence and so wouldn't give a crap about whatever target we shoot except the targets are boring.

[MilkMyDuds]

IF we could tap into the Call of Duty folks we would be in great shape, there are millions of them

How could you leave out Battlefield and American Army

The thing they really like, however, is to shoot sniper rifles and drive tanks/choppers, which USPSA does not offer, YET

[Steve RA]

I think the reason all the above mentioned games are really popular is that you can sit on your ass in air conditioned comfort while playing. Getting out into the fresh air and sunlight is not as prevalent in todays youth as it was in the past.

[Sarge]

Here's a question. If changing the target to the IPSC style headless targets was the only concession to allowing IPSC style shooting events to be featured in the X-Games, would you be in favor of doing it?

In the video Max classifies action shooting as an "extreme sport." The X-Games IS extreme sports and they reach an insane number of people worldwide in comparison to any current televised programming featuring action shooting. Live attendance alone at the 2015 X-Games was 138,000 people with live online and televised numbers in the millions. Can you imagine the quality and quantity of junior athletes you could attract to the sport if action shooting was a part of the X-Games? How many kids could you help transition from playing the latest "Call of Duty" to learning proper firearm handling and actually shooting a match?

The list of sponsors for the 2016 X-Games includes AT&T, Coors Light, Intel, LifeProof, Americas Navy, GoPro, Harley-Davidson, Jeep, Monster Energy, Oakley, Polaris, Skype and Xbox. With sponsorship like that backing a match, can you imagine the quality of stages? Forget the match itself, how many local matches could be helped out with the kind of financial infusion sponsorships of that size would bring to USPSA?

I really dont care what the cardboard targets look like. I care about exposing as many people to shooting in a positive way as possible. Every person Ive brought out to try action shooting as a fun day at the range has done two things: left with a big shit eating grin and asked if they can come to the next match.

Scary. Most big matches sell out in hours. Now we want them to sell out in minutes? No thanks.

[PatriotMRD]

I think the reason all the above mentioned games are really popular is that you can sit on your ass in air conditioned comfort while playing. Getting out into the fresh air and sunlight is not as prevalent in todays youth as it was in the past.

That may be part of it. You can sit in the A/C and talk smack anonymously. Requires no physical ability beyond your thumbs and fingers. No dealing with real recoil or trigger control. You can turn the volume up or down as much as you want. No real rules.

Don't get me wrong. I partake in some Call of Duty, Battlefield and World of Tanks myself but, there is nothing quite like the feel of actual recoil, the smell of burning powder and the bark of real guns.

[PatriotMRD]

Here's a question. If changing the target to the IPSC style headless targets was the only concession to allowing IPSC style shooting events to be featured in the X-Games, would you be in favor of doing it? In the video Max classifies action shooting as an "extreme sport." The X-Games IS extreme sports and they reach an insane number of people worldwide in comparison to any current televised programming featuring action shooting. Live attendance alone at the 2015 X-Games was 138,000 people with live online and televised numbers in the millions. Can you imagine the quality and quantity of junior athletes you could attract to the sport if action shooting was a part of the X-Games? How many kids could you help transition from playing the latest "Call of Duty" to learning proper firearm handling and actually shooting a match? The list of sponsors for the 2016 X-Games includes AT&T, Coors Light, Intel, LifeProof, Americas Navy, GoPro, Harley-Davidson, Jeep, Monster Energy, Oakley, Polaris, Skype and Xbox. With sponsorship like that backing a match, can you imagine the quality of stages? Forget the match itself, how many local matches could be helped out with the kind of financial infusion sponsorships of that size would bring to USPSA?

I really dont care what the cardboard targets look like. I care about exposing as many people to shooting in a positive way as possible. Every person Ive brought out to try action shooting as a fun day at the range has done two things: left with a big shit eating grin and asked if they can come to the next match.

Scary. Most big matches sell out in hours. Now we want them to sell out in minutes? No thanks.

Not to mention the match fees and probably need to qualify for anything above a level 1 match. You think the perception that everyone in USPSA is a Master or Grand Master so why bother.