1911Prof Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 THIS Ignoring advice from two of the best known shooters in the game is exceptional....for its ignorance. All this tough guy crap from you and groups like the NRA is eventually going to be the downfall of the gun sports. You best wake up and realize that the Millennial generation looks at things differently than some of us "older" white guys brought up in a different era. We are quickly giving up power to the new guys and they will drown us unless we realize that we are not exceptional, no longer in charge, and more bark than bite. The guys on this video are not the enemy. They are two of the most involved individuals in the sport and we best not ignore their view by burying our collective heads in the sand. We stand to become obsolete and irrelevant by being hard headed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I don't shoot at human targets. I shoot at cardboard targets that have a head box. turtle targets are for prancing sissies and socialists, imho. Hopefully bernie sanders won't make the choice for us. ^^^^ ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Ignoring advice from two of the best known shooters in the game is exceptional....for its ignorance. All this tough guy crap from you and groups like the NRA is eventually going to be the downfall of the gun sports. You best wake up and realize that the Millennial generation looks at things differently than some of us "older" white guys brought up in a different era. We are quickly giving up power to the new guys and they will drown us unless we realize that we are not exceptional, no longer in charge, and more bark than bite. The guys on this video are not the enemy. They are two of the most involved individuals in the sport and we best not ignore their view by burying our collective heads in the sand. We stand to become obsolete and irrelevant by being hard headed. This is exactly right. The comments to the contrary are what is know as cutting off your own nose to spite your face. Edited February 16, 2016 by Shadyscott999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernelofwisdom Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Change the target or don't change it - it's hard to believe that is a big driver on whether the sport is "mainstream." Is it mainstream in countries that use the ipsc target? Popular on television, draw lots of spectators, outside sponsors, etc.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Be careful what you ask for. IPSC would radicalize stage design. The targets are first, then you can't run forward because that is aggressive. If people want IPSC, move to Europe. or they can sever the ties between IPSC and USPSA. USPSA can remain as is and if you want touchy feely PC BS shoot IPSC.Don't wear black or camo. Don't move aggressively. It makes the soccer moms and the European elitist nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kernelofwisdom Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I think it scares minorities! Metric target is for old white people. If we are going to do this, the right way is to talk with young people of every stripe and ask them what target interests them the most to shoot at. Don't assume the turtle - it was invented, not kidding here unfortunately, by old white guys - is what will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) I don't get the argument. It's not just Euros or soccer moms. Sometimes it is other club members. One of the clubs I belong to is in the heart of liberal land. It's a large club with several thousand members, and a lot of different ranges. Pretty much if a human can carry it and it launches a projectile, we have a range for it. The pistol range is the most popular and most used range at the club. Shooting at human shaped targets, pictures of people or anything similar has been prohibited before I because a member. You know, no one cares (although many would shoot at Obama's picture if permitted). We use the USPSA metric target and cut off the head. Again, no one cares. I personally don't care whether the sport gets televised or not. That being said, if eliminating helps somehow, why not? BTW, turtle targets or anything else resembling a living creature would be self defeating. Edited February 16, 2016 by zzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) You guys sound exactly like the people he was calling out in the video, just saying. Not agreeing or disagreeing with you guys or Max, but he pretty much nailed that one. If we're going to change stuff, let's have some proof it will be beneficial, not just some famous guy who wants to get on tv more speculating about changing the sport for his personal benefit. As long as we are holding something gun-shaped in our hands, pc morons will whine about our sport, just like they whine about gladiator sports like football and violent sports like hockeyj, and sports like soccer that have winners instead of participants medals. I say let the pc morons get bent. Here's another idea... why don't all the prancing socialists get their own club together, and simply choose to use only turtle targets (it's allowed within the rules). Do that for 2 years and then report back to the group with how the local democrats have now embraced shooting sports, and maybe then I'll give this idea more thought than the stupid pcc threads. Edited February 16, 2016 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Everybody can stop with the "old white boy crap" We are never going to be an ESPN event, I don't care if we shoot at big white circles. The media is still controlled by liberals and anything that promotes the use of guns is not going on regular TV. Taking advice from two of the best known shooters......really? The shooting sports are their income. Think they might have personal reasons to suggest going to turtles........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The shooting sports are their income. Think they might have personal reasons to suggest going to turtles........ Yeah screw those people who want to actually make a livable wage doing what they love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The shooting sports are their income. Think they might have personal reasons to suggest going to turtles........ Yeah screw those people who want to actually make a livable wage doing what they love. I don't mind if people want to make a livable wage, unless they expect *me* to change my life for the worse to accommodate their desires, without any evidence that there will be any benefits at all for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The shooting sports are their income. Think they might have personal reasons to suggest going to turtles........ Yeah screw those people who want to actually make a livable wage doing what they love. Not even close to what he's saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 THIS Ignoring advice from two of the best known shooters in the game is exceptional....for its ignorance. All this tough guy crap from you and groups like the NRA is eventually going to be the downfall of the gun sports. You best wake up and realize that the Millennial generation looks at things differently than some of us "older" white guys brought up in a different era. We are quickly giving up power to the new guys and they will drown us unless we realize that we are not exceptional, no longer in charge, and more bark than bite. The guys on this video are not the enemy. They are two of the most involved individuals in the sport and we best not ignore their view by burying our collective heads in the sand. We stand to become obsolete and irrelevant by being hard headed. NOT THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The shooting sports are their income. Think they might have personal reasons to suggest going to turtles........ Yeah screw those people who want to actually make a livable wage doing what they love. Not at all, you have to respect and understand the context is all. His position and stance are based on his interests. Also, the interview was a DAA one, and they are a worldwide company, so that plays into it too. The most recent example of what 3 gun nation tried should indicate where his argument might end up for action shooting. Their pro series doesn't resemble what most people want to shoot at a 3 gun match. And, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, even at that they were dropped like a hot rock anyway. Just one old white guys opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The shooting sports are their income. Think they might have personal reasons to suggest going to turtles........ Yeah screw those people who want to actually make a livable wage doing what they love. They can make all the money they want by shooting....don't try to make changes to further that agenda. I'm not saying they are either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Ignoring advice from two of the best known shooters in the game is exceptional....for its ignorance. All this tough guy crap from you and groups like the NRA is eventually going to be the downfall of the gun sports. You best wake up and realize that the Millennial generation looks at things differently than some of us "older" white guys brought up in a different era. We are quickly giving up power to the new guys and they will drown us unless we realize that we are not exceptional, no longer in charge, and more bark than bite. The guys on this video are not the enemy. They are two of the most involved individuals in the sport and we best not ignore their view by burying our collective heads in the sand. We stand to become obsolete and irrelevant by being hard headed. Hmm.. I must have something wrong with my old white NRA LIFE MEMBER ass because what those famous people think means absolutely nothing to me.As a matter of fact they should watch what they say. If the Anti's get a look at what these guys have to say, they'll use it against us. I would rather keep being an American and shoot humanoid targets and avoid drawing more attention to us. Going mainstream will only benefit a few pro shooters. You think us support class shooters will make it onto prime time? Don't kid yourself Edited February 16, 2016 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooldylocks Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The shooting sports are their income. Think they might have personal reasons to suggest going to turtles........ Yeah screw those people who want to actually make a livable wage doing what they love. I don't mind if people want to make a livable wage, unless they expect *me* to change my life for the worse to accommodate their desires, without any evidence that there will be any benefits at all for the rest of us.Change your life for the worse? That's some strong wording there, I'm sorry if you are so emotionally invested in shooting a silhouette that will will damage your life to not. "Mainstream" could start out as low level as the outdoor channel. They air shows like the Best Defense or whatever else that are ACTUALLY about killing people, and yet they still don't air USPSA... that makes me think that we need better media coverage in general. If classics helped with that, then why not. And to the people that are saying ESPN is antigun, when is the last time you saw trap or skeet or .22 bullseye on there? I would say.... because that is similar to watching paint dry. I can't even make it through an entire youtube video, let alone a live feed from the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Any thoughts on changing human targets to turtles? Metric vs Emperial? Rugby vs Football? IPSC vs USPSA? Sports vs Tactical training? https://youtu.be/0RAoe3gClfk?t=1476 Give me a friggin break! I made it 2 minutes and had to turn it off before I puked. Both sitting there in their sponsor jersey for advertising. Big DAA hat front and center. We need to get rid of this and be more like this, blah blah. All the while sitting in front of a wall full of what most libs would call assault weapons! If it weren't so nauseating it would be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 The shooting sports are their income. Think they might have personal reasons to suggest going to turtles........ Yeah screw those people who want to actually make a livable wage doing what they love. I don't mind if people want to make a livable wage, unless they expect *me* to change my life for the worse to accommodate their desires, without any evidence that there will be any benefits at all for the rest of us.Change your life for the worse? That's some strong wording there, I'm sorry if you are so emotionally invested in shooting a silhouette that will will damage your life to not."Mainstream" could start out as low level as the outdoor channel. They air shows like the Best Defense or whatever else that are ACTUALLY about killing people, and yet they still don't air USPSA... that makes me think that we need better media coverage in general. If classics helped with that, then why not. And to the people that are saying ESPN is antigun, when is the last time you saw trap or skeet or .22 bullseye on there? I would say.... because that is similar to watching paint dry. I can't even make it through an entire youtube video, let alone a live feed from the event. so they show best defense, but not uspsa...... that makes it seem like you agree with me that targets with heads are NOT the problem and turtle targets are not the solution. If we want tv coverage (which I don't care about in the slightest), the sport will have to change drastically into a made for tv sport. I don't think that is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Steel challenge or head to head falling steel would make for some good tv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 (edited) Steel challenge or head to head falling steel would make for some good tv. agreed. I would even watch that if there were no hockey or football on. I don't think I would watch a uspsa match unless they promised to have no interviews. btw, why are we focused on the targets? didn't max also suggest moving to minor-scoring-only? The logical next step after that is to require all shooters to wear capri pants. Edited February 16, 2016 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yooper56 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Shooting USA is on the Outdoor channel and regularly covers competitive shooting events, including both USPSA and IDPA with the head box targets Outdoor channel also has American Rifleman, NRA All Access, Shooting Gallery, and Shootout Lane, all of which have covered competition shooting, including USPSA and IDPA ESPN pretty much gave up on all shooting-related programming some time ago. Unless they get new ownership, there likely will not be any shooting-related sports on ESPN. Let's face it, people aren't likely to become pro-gun (or even neutral towards guns) and shooting because of the targets some obscure group of shooting enthusiasts use or don't use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 It's not even close to being about the classic vs metric target for the crowd they're talking about placating. It's because the sport involves the aggressive use of firearms. That's it. For the average SJW (social justice warrior), this is a patriarchal, oppressive simulation designed to compensate for small male organs. Making the targets into shields instead of having an "upper A/B zone" is not as important to them as getting rid of objects that "facilitate violent behaviors". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 Ignoring advice from two of the best known shooters in the game is exceptional....for its ignorance. All this tough guy crap from you and groups like the NRA is eventually going to be the downfall of the gun sports. You best wake up and realize that the Millennial generation looks at things differently than some of us "older" white guys brought up in a different era. We are quickly giving up power to the new guys and they will drown us unless we realize that we are not exceptional, no longer in charge, and more bark than bite. The guys on this video are not the enemy. They are two of the most involved individuals in the sport and we best not ignore their view by burying our collective heads in the sand. We stand to become obsolete and irrelevant by being hard headed. Hmm.. I must have something wrong with my old white NRA LIFE MEMBER ass because what those famous people think means absolutely nothing to me.As a matter of fact they should watch what they say. If the Anti's get a look at what these guys have to say, they'll use it against us. I would rather keep being an American and shoot humanoid targets and avoid drawing more attention to us. Going mainstream will only benefit a few pro shooters. You think us support class shooters will make it onto prime time? Don't kid yourself We've disagreed in the past but, on this, I think we're on the same page. Thanks Sarge. This sounds more like a few pros wanting to go "mainstream" to benefit themselves.A 36 year old NRA Life Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 I had a lot of respect for Max. That is shrinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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