New to USPSA, 9mm or .40

[jabate01]

I have just started shooting USPSA. I am shooting a G17 (9mm) in production. Recently someone suggested shooting .40 so I would move into the Major power category. Should this be a consideration for a newby or is that higher level gaming tactic I should wait on once I get the basics?

[Wesquire]

Production is all minor.

[Gooldylocks]

You are currently shooting production? Then don't bother with shooting a 40. In production everyone is scored minor regardless of what power factor you are shooting. It is designed that way to provide competitive equality to everyone regardless of caliber. Same reason that it is limited to 10 rounds, because pretty much any gun someone would choose to use in competition holds at least 10 (other than a 1911, but they have their own division).

Stick with the 9 for now.

[al503]

If you're having fun, stick with the 17 in production. It's only scored minor anyway.

Shooting .40 is the minimum caliber of limited/limited 10 to shoot major. If you want to shoot limited division, then most would suggest shooting .40.

I would shoot some more matches and see what everyone else is shooting. Ask them questions. Most are more than happy to talk about their pistols.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Don't buy anything this early in the game.

Shoot whatja got, and enjoy .... Learn, grasshopper.

[9x45]

You can shoot 40S&W in Production, but unless you reload to the minor floor there is no advantage. A 180 gr 40 is way softer than any 9mm load, even a 160 gr 9mm. I shoot Limited Minor, but I would suggest getting at least 20 or so matches under your belt before changing anything.

[cnote]

And I believe someone suggested to you 40 major, which means changing divisions

I would never suggest 40 to anyone unless they reload and can download it to 170ish PF Major or minor. Factory 40 tends to be 180ish PF or more, unnecessary .....

[nitrohuck]

This simple gist of it is:

Shoot 9mm (Minor) if you plan to stay in production division.

If you decide to enter to limited division, then you will (most likely) want to shoot .40cal (Major). You could still shoot the 9mm, but will be docked more points in your runs.

That said, you COULD shoot .40cal in production, but only if you reload your own rounds and load to minor power factor, as others have stated. For now, keep shooting production and have fun.

[zzt]

I'm a relatively new shooter to "official" USPSA matches. Observe the stage layouts at the matches you attend. That will tell you if you ought to change. Boiled down, the fundamental difference between Production and Limited is the number of mag changes required.

The sanctioned matches, at least around me, are set up to be Single Stack friendly. So, there is usually enough time to reload between sub-stages without slowing yourself down. All of the unsanctioned matches I shot were set up to reward mag capacity.

I support the notion that you should continue to shoot Production for a while, then make the decision. You shoot the same stages as everyone else, but you are actually competing only against other Production shooters. Limited, if you choose to go that route, is going to be a lot more expensive. Also, you'll have to reload unless you buy reloaded ammo from Atlanta, etc. Limited is what I shoot, because I started in the unsanctioned matches and my 1911 was at a disadvantage. Not so in USPSA. I could have started a lot sooner shooting SS or L10 and had a ball without spending a lot of money.

[9x45]

Z, actually the decision is just what division you want to shoot in, not stage design. Every one in the same division is only shooting against everyone in the same division with the same stage design. True, the Open guys tend to grab more points faster, and that accounts for why you could take 1st Production and still end up 30% down overall. What do you personally want to get out of the game is the question you have to answer. Meaning I could declare myself Limited Minor and shoot my Kahr CW9, from concealment and appendix holster, because there is no rule against concealment and no restricted holster position in Limited or Open, but I would suck for score.

[GrumpyOne]

You can shoot 40S&W in Production, but unless you reload to the minor floor there is no advantage. A 180 gr 40 is way softer than any 9mm load, even a 160 gr 9mm. I shoot Limited Minor, but I would suggest getting at least 20 or so matches under your belt before changing anything.

I would differ with you about the 40 being softer...while it is soft, I have some very soft minor 9mm loads...and yes, I have tried both.

[GrumpyOne]

And I believe someone suggested to you 40 major, which means changing divisions

I would never suggest 40 to anyone unless they reload and can download it to 170ish PF Major or minor. Factory 40 tends to be 180ish PF or more, unnecessary .....

Winchester White box 165 FMJ TCN lists the velocity at 1060...so a PF of 174.9...the 180FMJ TCN is listed at 990 so a PF of 178.2

[sbo76]

Your gun is a much better production gun. Production is a great division to learn the sport. It was designed to be about the shooter not the gear war so production is perfect to get the fundamentalsame down.

[Flatland Shooter]

And if you decide to move from Production to Limited, just load those magazines up to 17 rds, stick a magwell on it and have some fun.

(Unless you are in one of those states that do not allow magazines that hold more than 10 rds.)

[Wesquire]

9mm is softer than .40. If .40 was softer, more than 3% of production shooters would be shooting .40. The much smaller case capacity of the 9mm means it takes less powder to make minor. Simple as that. 40 will never be able to match it. Also, 40 minor is going to have more reliability problems for most guns.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Wesquire

[zzt]

W, everything is relative. I shoot a TS in 40. At 144pf it feels softer to me than shooting a 9mm TS. My buddy with the 9 disagrees.

[9x45]

Grumpy, you haven't tried a 200 grain 40 minor yet.

[Garmil]

Grumpy, you haven't tried a 200 grain 40 minor yet.

I have. Still not as soft as some 9mm I've tried.

[9x45]

9mm is softer than .40. If .40 was softer, more than 3% of production shooters would be shooting .40. The much smaller case capacity of the 9mm means it takes less powder to make minor. Simple as that. 40 will never be able to match it. Also, 40 minor is going to have more reliability problems for most guns.

Not exactly that simple. There is a trade off between bullet weight and accuracy and recoil management and cycle speed. And powder charge is only proportional to bullet weight. My experience with Glock 40's is that they are as reliable as the 9mms and that the 40 minor shoots softer than 9mm in my Glocks.

Edited November 26, 2015 by 9x45

[GrumpyOne]

Grumpy, you haven't tried a 200 grain 40 minor yet.

And how would you know that? Lol!

[Wesquire]

9mm is softer than .40. If .40 was softer, more than 3% of production shooters would be shooting .40. The much smaller case capacity of the 9mm means it takes less powder to make minor. Simple as that. 40 will never be able to match it. Also, 40 minor is going to have more reliability problems for most guns.

Not exactly that simple. There is a trade off between bullet weight and accuracy and recoil management and cycle speed. And powder charge is only proportional to bullet weight. My experience with Glock 40's is that they are as reliable as the 9mms and that the 40 minor shoots softer than 9mm in my Glocks.

Powder is proportional to bullet weight AND case capacity. Less case capacity, more pressure. More pressure, more velocity. Powder, not powerfactor, determines recoil. 9mm shooting 147s or 160s will make minor with less powder. Cycle speed will vary as well, which is why many prefer the heavier recoiling 147s or 135s. At a certain point, recoil reduction has diminishing returns...so speeding up cycle time is more beneficial.

[3gunDQ]

Your good shooting 9 in production... 40 is for people who fill up mags.

[Just4FunLP]

I like to shoot a lot of rounds, so to keep the cost of ammo down I'll probably stay in production. If you're serious about trying to perform well, production is a little harder. There are more mag changes so you have to concentrate when you're planning your stages. Also it seems like a lot of people move out of production as they get better, so hopefully I can eventually start filling in there empty spots in the winners circle. Hasn't happened yet.

[StealthyBlagga]

I hate to break it to you, but you probably are not rising straight to the top in your first year of competition.

I would recommend sticking with your Glock 17 and shooting Limited Minor. Is it optimal ? NO. Is it more affordable and easier to concentrate on executing stage plans and marksmanship at speed? YES. Fewer reloads = less $$$ spend on magazines, less to worry about during the stage. Get some experience with your current setup... maybe 12 months, spending the money you save to attend 2-4 matches a month, and even better do dry fire and live fire practice as much as you can.

Later on you may decide you want to be more competitive, in which case you case you can either buy a few more magazines and switch to Production, or buy into an entire new Limited platform (.40 S&W, match trigger, 140mm mags, magwell etc.). Which makes more sense depends on what you will enjoy more, and the depth of your pockets.

[PatJones]

If you're serious about trying to perform well, production is a little harder. There are more mag changes so you have to concentrate when you're planning your stages.

Production isn't that much more difficult, you do have extra ammunition in your magazine when you get to a position. Learning the game with a major caliber single stack, or a revolver is a bit more masochistic.