Is idpa really fun?

[mcb]

105PF for Revolver-SSR...

As I'm sure you're aware, that was done because the vast majority of .38 Special ammo available commercially would/will not make 125pf. IDPA did not want to make the division "for reloaders only".

But any 38 Special ammunition you might realistically carry for self defense would easily make 125 from a 4-inch revolver especial the heavier stuff.

The BUG division requires a 95PF and there are very few commercial 380 ACP ammo (and non of the cost effective FMJ) that will make a 95 PF from a BUG legal 380 ACP. They don't seem afraid to make that cartridge a reloader only cartridge.

Yep, you can probably find some +Ps for the .38, but that's not realistic for many people.

Good point about BUG, although I doubt many people will be shooting a .380 anyway. 9mm (or .38 Special) is much easier to find, and a .380 at 20+ yards is pretty iffy. I've sure never seen one accurate at that distance.

I think IDPA set a precedent by lowering SSR to a 105PF to accommodate the division's definitive minimum cartridge and the availability of affordable factory ammunition. Would it not be a double standard to set an unrealistic power factor for the definitive minimal cartridge in BUG? IMHO Lower the PF or raise the minimum cartridge but be consistent across all divisions.

[CoffeedrinkerinNC]

Remember that we are talking about full charge service ammunition, not just what you can purchase off the shelf. I think IDPA should have minimum PF for all the major calibers used, full charge service ammunition will be different depending upon the caliber used. Or if IDPA wants to move away from full charge service ammunition then they should change their statement.

Like others have stated it's just a game, with rules...

[Jane]

I think IDPA set a precedent by lowering SSR to a 105PF to accommodate the division's definitive minimum cartridge and the availability of affordable factory ammunition. Would it not be a double standard to set an unrealistic power factor for the definitive minimal cartridge in BUG? IMHO Lower the PF or raise the minimum cartridge but be consistent across all divisions.

^^^ Exactly. And some of the ballistics data for .380 ammo are using 4-inch barrels.

Joyce's February email claimed

"Then we tested many loadings of .380 practice ammunition chronoed through BUG firearms most likely to be shot in BUG matches, to set the minimum power factor for BUG at 95."

"Practice ammo". Not $1.25/round stuff. Not custom-loaded +P+ stuff.

But if people show up with .380s at our club matches, we won't chrono them.

Seems IDPA has been trying to develop more realistic rules. And the last iterations have become much better worded than earlier rulebooks. But the inconsistency you point out in this one seems rather glaring.

[CoffeedrinkerinNC]

I agree that IDPA is getting better....

But, practise ammo is not full charge service ammo.

[RePete]

34 buffalo ny area good condition but local range is two hrs away for idpa. Boo

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The closest club to you is GCL in the east side of Rochester. 1hr 15mins on I 90 E

[Thaunk]

I've shot both USPSA and IDPA classifiers as a new shooter. My USPSA match was in the pouring rain. I ended up needing to switch jackets because my first one got soaked through. Having set the stage, it appeared to be much better run than IDPA. We shot 6 stages, moved all our gear under a pop up tent that the group moved and were done by noon or 1 pm. My IDPA match had crystal clear weather. It started late, then started later as two guys were arguing something about scoring for a good half hour. They kept adding shooters to our group so we never even finished by the time I had to leave and we only needed to shoot 3 stages. We never moved bays. What did IDPA in for me was the constant stop and start. Nobody was rude, but the organization seemed to be lacking. I'd like to try it again when I get the opportunity, but so far I'm preferring USPSA.

[9x45]

Keep in mind that IDPA was invented by one of the greatest ever ISPC shooters, Bill Wilson and his homies. It may say practical/tactical, etc-actically, but every rule in IDPA is just opposite or different from USPSA rules, that's all. The revolver and bug power floor reflect that. Revolver at 105? Come on, my 2" J frame throws .357RemMag 180 grain Nyclads at 1,000 fps, that's full house at 180 floor.

[robport]

I just came back from our biweekly IDPA match. I shot plain horrible. Trigger control was nonexistent....I don't even want to see my score and you know what? I'm more relaxed now than when I got up this morning.

A horrible day shooting is still light years ahead of a day at work. Having just left one of the worst matches I've ever shot....I can enthusiastically say that yes, it's fun!

[MilkMyDuds]

I just came back from our biweekly IDPA match. I shot plain horrible. Trigger control was nonexistent....I don't even want to see my score and you know what? I'm more relaxed now than when I got up this morning.

A horrible day shooting is still light years ahead of a day at work. Having just left one of the worst matches I've ever shot....I can enthusiastically say that yes, it's fun!

Glad you are having fun

IDPA tends to punish sloppy trigger control (inaccuracy in general) more than USPSA. Vogel talked about his training differences between USPSA and IDPA on youtube, and that makes a lot of senses. Should be beneficial to people who shoot both.

[hlpressley]

I've shot both USPSA and IDPA classifiers as a new shooter. My USPSA match was in the pouring rain. I ended up needing to switch jackets because my first one got soaked through. Having set the stage, it appeared to be much better run than IDPA. We shot 6 stages, moved all our gear under a pop up tent that the group moved and were done by noon or 1 pm. My IDPA match had crystal clear weather. It started late, then started later as two guys were arguing something about scoring for a good half hour. They kept adding shooters to our group so we never even finished by the time I had to leave and we only needed to shoot 3 stages. We never moved bays. What did IDPA in for me was the constant stop and start. Nobody was rude, but the organization seemed to be lacking. I'd like to try it again when I get the opportunity, but so far I'm preferring USPSA.

Soooooo.....the club that you went to was unorganized and not prepared for the IDPA match and you blame IDPA? Do you also blame the NFL when the Cleveland browns suck on Sunday?

[Forrest Halley]

Good point about BUG, although I doubt many people will be shooting a .380 anyway. 9mm (or .38 Special) is much easier to find, and a .380 at 20+ yards is pretty iffy. I've sure never seen one accurate at that distance.

You've never seen a PPK/s? Long before I had read your post and knew better than to be foolish enough to try it...I shot my PPK/s at half liter water bottles at fifty yards. Bracing between my knees with my back to a tree, it wasn't uncommon to hit all five bottles one for one. What's worse is we were also running .380's in a Makarov and getting consistent hits. Later I got even more ridiculous and put a full magazine into a target at seventy yards in a tighter group than a nay-sayer could with a twelve gauge.

Bottom line is some people practice with their weapons and have a capability to exceed that which others know to be true.

[CZinZA]

Same for my cz83 in .380

No accuracy problems at 25 metres and beyond

Sent by Jedi mind control

[robport]

.380 must be difficult to calibrate poppers for though. We have enough trouble with 9mm and that's what we still calibrate to.

I personally don't like .380 for a very different and selfish reason. I occasionally mix up an occasional random .380 casing into my 9mm. I've loaded a few and didn't realize it until I gauged them. I'm not crazy about pulling bullets. It freaks one of the dogs out.

[Forrest Halley]

IF you are paying attention, .380's are easily detected at resize/decap. There's no effort to size them...whoa hold the phone...do not pass recap...they go in the little baggie in my 9mm brass bucket.

Crimped primer 9mm ticks me off far worse. There's a solution to that too: Dewalt with a PH2 set on high speed.

Now if only I had a solution for small primer .45....those people are evil.

[ADulay]

You've never seen a PPK/s? Long before I had read your post and knew better than to be foolish enough to try it...I shot my PPK/s at half liter water bottles at fifty yards. Bracing between my knees with my back to a tree, it wasn't uncommon to hit all five bottles one for one. What's worse is we were also running .380's in a Makarov and getting consistent hits. Later I got even more ridiculous and put a full magazine into a target at seventy yards in a tighter group than a nay-sayer could with a twelve gauge.

Bottom line is some people practice with their weapons and have a capability to exceed that which others know to be true.

Have to agree. Back when I did use/carry the PPK/s a lot, it was very accurate. I just never liked shooting it all that much!

I have run it in a BUG match but my hands were killing me at the end of the day.

AD

[Forrest Halley]

That's awesome! I ran a jframe long before it was legal as SSR and half of my thumb fell off and had to be duct taped back in place to soldier on.

My PPK/s once claimed a squirrel at some thirty yards. In recovering the squirrel I traversed a barbed wire fence unknowingly dropping the pistol into deep leaves. I proudly told my tale and tuned sheet white, when in the middle of the story, I realized the pistol was gone. I returned to the spot to find the pistol shining in the sun unscratched by some miracle of God. Holsters are the way to go!

[Blueridge]

Just to point something out. In USPSA the max number of round REQUIRED (presuming that you don't miss) is 32. That does not mean that you will shoot a maximum of 32, but that if you never miss you will only need a maximum of 32 rounds for any stage.

Similarly in IDPA the max number of rounds REQUIRED (presuming that you don't miss) is 18. That does not mean that you will shoot a maximum of 18, but that if you never miss you will only need a maximum of 18 rounds for any stage.

With moving targets on a stage it can be easy to exceed either maximum round count. I have found that in either sport the maximum round count is exceeded my quite a number of participants. The main concern for most of the participants that I have come across is that they have enough rounds to shoot all of the stages, and in addition be able to reshoot some stages if necessary.

All shooting sport trigger time can be enjoyable, no matter what rules are used. In my opinion.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Blueridge

[robport]

IDPA is a little more unclear about the number of rounds with their wording. I have never seen more than 18 rounds in a stage and I seem to remember the rule that way in the past, but technically, you can have a series of multiple 18 round "strings" in a stage. I don't know why they would word it this way.

6.10 No string of fire may exceed a maximum requirement of eighteen (18) rounds.
6.10.1 String of Fire: A section of the course of fire that is initiated by a start signal, and ends with the last shot fired. There may be more than one string in a given stage.

Strange....

[Jim Watson]

They worded it that way so as to allow multi-string standards stages. Like the Classifier, each "stage" is 30 rounds but it is broken into "strings" of 12 or fewer.

[9x45]

Blueridge, a shooter not having enough rounds for either IDPA or USPSA is a shooter problem. Everybody knows if you have a 225 round match, you better bring 400 caps.

[robport]

They worded it that way so as to allow multi-string standards stages. Like the Classifier, each "stage" is 30 rounds but it is broken into "strings" of 12 or fewer.

Ahhh, makes sense, thanks!

[Forrest Halley]

Just to point something out. In USPSA the max number of round REQUIRED (presuming that you don't miss) is 32. That does not mean that you will shoot a maximum of 32, but that if you never miss you will only need a maximum of 32 rounds for any stage.

Similarly in IDPA the max number of rounds REQUIRED (presuming that you don't miss) is 18. That does not mean that you will shoot a maximum of 18, but that if you never miss you will only need a maximum of 18 rounds for any stage.

I hate to rain on your parade, but WRONG and WRONGERER.

USPSA is a maximum of 32 rounds per stage only in level three or higher matches. I can require 75 rounds if I want to in level one or two and have seen them go into the forties.

idpa is 18 rounds maximum required rounds per string. I can run multiple strings in a stage. So we can effectively require 18, 36, 54, 72...and the beat goes on as we age in place due to the multiple starts.

I don't think it is advisable to setup super long stages in either discipline unless you have experienced shooters that can hit the targets and are efficient at shooting the stages and resetting them. Novice shooters taking three minutes on a stage because they are bent on exhausting every round of ammunition on their belt is a flow killer.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Forrest Halley

[elguapo]

Novice shooters taking three minutes on a stage because they are bent on exhausting every round of ammunition on their belt being tactical is a flow killer.

FIFY

[shooterDrew]

My biggest gripe is the subjectivity involved in IDPA. You can use cover the same way on 5 stages with 5 different ROs and have 3 of them with no issue at all, one give a warning, and one nail you with procedurals. I generally stay waaaay behind cover to avoid those but it's painful to watch a newer shooter get smoked with a ton of penalties because they don't exactly understand what's being expected of them- even if they're making a good effort that would be a non call by another RO. I've definitely seen new shooters leave IDPA matches pretty beaten down from that aspect.

That being said IDPA is a very welcoming environment and I'd usually recommend a newer shooter try that before USPSA. Mainly because it feels like there is a higher expectation of proficiency or understanding of safe gun handling at a USPSA match. (That is not to say unsafe gun handling is acceptable at IDPA).

For my money I'd shoot USPSA every time if given a choice... But I have and will continue to shoot some IDPA if no USPSA available. Both are shooting and both are filled with good people, which makes for a good Saturday or Sunday in my book.

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[Forrest Halley]

Novice shooters taking three minutes on a stage because they are bent on exhausting every round of ammunition on their belt being tactical is a flow killer.

FIFY

I dunno Mano, I've seen some SSP and production noobs shell the stars out of a short stage or with pickups on every target. Being tacticool is also a flow killer, but that is usually a product of inefficient footwork which just is until expert/B class.

My biggest gripe is the subjectivity involved in IDPA. You can use cover the same way on 5 stages with 5 different ROs and have 3 of them with no issue at all, one give a warning, and one nail you with procedurals. I generally stay waaaay behind cover to avoid those but it's painful to watch a newer shooter get smoked with a ton of penalties because they don't exactly understand what's being expected of them- even if they're making a good effort that would be a non call by another RO. I've definitely seen new shooters leave IDPA matches pretty beaten down from that aspect.

Shouting anything at new shooters that isn't directly related to safety is foolish. All they hear is BLAH!BLAH...BLAH! BLAH! anyway as they don't know what any of the range commands mean typically. They become alarmed and want to look back and see what's going on as the muzzle follows the head and eyes...

I have heard plateaued "SO's" say that shooters were cheating on the cover because the shooter sliced pie so smoothly and was ripping the -0 hits faster than he could/would. This attitude affected his calls and I can remember getting straight up PO'd when I got a procedural for three open targets at the same distance because I shot the steel in the middle first. There was no basis in the rules for this other than I told you so. This screamed "jealous I didn't think of that." Your performance is not the limit of the rules.

I feel like the main aversion new shooters have to USPSA is that they don't yet reload and the round count is intimidating. Fifty rounds will get you through a weekday idpa match. It may not get you through two stages at USPSA.

They also think they can compete with their "carry gear," meaning they will swim well up the score sheet with whatever they have on their belt day to day. This is true if they actually have proficiency with their gear and the gear is of quality. The first time you see Han Solo running around with a shower cap over his "ray gun" at USPSA, your "carry gear" starts to feel very small and inadequate. The reality is that Han is a D class and can't hit the barn from the inside and you and your stock 19 just got psyched out.

I started in USPSA with a 625JM, 40$ safariland holster and six California competition works moonclip holders. I had been shooting idpa for maybe a year and a half and had switched from semi's to ESR due to the policymakers calling every match lost brass and my entry into reloading, so I started shooting revolver everywhere I could: ICORE, USPSA, idpa.