davsco Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 with steel challenge you pretty much start and stop in the same place, so no time wasted in bagging vs holstering. with uspsa you can end up well away from where you started. prob not a great idea to burden or distract the RO by having him carry your case. guess a buddy could follow you with the case. my thought would be to just find a safe area after each stage and throw it in the bag then vs holding up stages or distracting anyone. unbagging and holstering at the start of the next stage run shouldn't be a big deal. at matches where we need to tear down, generally everyone goes to the berm and does one big unload into bags after the last stage. that's a different animal. but really if the gun is bothering you after just a few hours, maybe consider another belt/holster option. that said i def remove all my mags after each run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 when I got my STI last Feb I remember the first night I put everything together and looking down to see there was this rather expensive race gun just hanging out there on my belt with basically nothing holding it. Coming from production for the last 2 years I was concerned about the same things you are. I spent the first few nights convincing myself that as long as the holster was locked the gun was never coming out of the holster unless something broke or I took it out. I even walked around the house with it on to get used to the idea of this gun just hanging out there - got a few strange looks from my wife until I explained to her why i was doing it ... now I show up for a match, go to the safe table & function check teh gun & then lock it into my holster & don't give it a second thought. I also NEVER go near the unlock button unless I'm at a safe table or in the box. And when I'm in the box, the act of unlocking my holster is the start of my pre-shoot mental program so it's very deliberate ... Now having said all that, if you're more comfortable bagging your firearm vice having it holstered all day I don't see a damn thing wrong with it .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 I used to bag my gun depending on who else was on the squad, but I would bag/unbag at the safe table immediately before/after shooting. Back in the day, we had several practical jokers who like to put stuff in your magwell like paper napkins, balloons, etc... and once I remember a certain incident with a ketchup packet. I miss those days... and sadly one of the biggest jokers has passed on....probably to an unmarked grave somewhere deep in the Mojave. Oops did I say that last part outloud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 As an "old guy" the practical shooting sports have had baggers and non-baggers since the advent of dedicated "speed holsters" When I had a "Spillmore" (Gilmore) holster I bagged, when ran my Sparks 1AT the gun was on all day. Also, back in the day. A lot of the speed holster designs were steel lined. I had a complete Ernie Hill rig that felt heavier without a gun , than my current Limited rig does with a gun. Not to mention I think the belts are better today offering more support. So bagging back then definitely helped with the all day comfort level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Wow. So now I'm a tool that would throw a bag with a gun in it? Ridiculous. I would tell you to holster one gun and get rid of the other yourself before giving you make ready. Empty gun bag? Yes, I'm getting rid of it before running you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 when I got my STI last Feb I remember the first night I put everything together and looking down to see there was this rather expensive race gun just hanging out there on my belt with basically nothing holding it. Coming from production for the last 2 years I was concerned about the same things you are. I spent the first few nights convincing myself that as long as the holster was locked the gun was never coming out of the holster unless something broke or I took it out. I even walked around the house with it on to get used to the idea of this gun just hanging out there - got a few strange looks from my wife until I explained to her why i was doing it ... now I show up for a match, go to the safe table & function check teh gun & then lock it into my holster & don't give it a second thought. I also NEVER go near the unlock button unless I'm at a safe table or in the box. And when I'm in the box, the act of unlocking my holster is the start of my pre-shoot mental program so it's very deliberate ... Now having said all that, if you're more comfortable bagging your firearm vice having it holstered all day I don't see a damn thing wrong with it .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 At my club we walk around with holstered unloaded guns all morning or all afternoon or all evening with zero issues. The only places you holster or unholster are: when starting or finishing a stage, in the designated gun-handling areas where no live ammo is allowed, or at your vehicle in the parking lot. I agree with this statement: "If you are concerned with 'accidentally' taking your gun out of your holster when you're not supposed to, you should do everyone a favor and stay far away from an action pistol match." It's not at all arrogant. It's a statement of a completely reasonable discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I can see Scott's point of wanting to bag between stages. As an RO I've thought about bagging mine between stages so that I don't have to lug it around while either running shooters or recording scores on the tablet. Yes I know the guns aren't that heavy but I'd still prefer to run around without it on my hip until I get ready to shoot the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 I have left mine at the safety table a few times while I was RO. I saw a shooter at my last match with thumb screws on his DOH holster to adjust the tension between stages. I may employ that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The only places you holster or unholster are: at your vehicle in the parking lot. I'm assuming this is not a USPSA match then? Handling a gun at your car at a USPSA match will get you sent home early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The only places you holster or unholster are: at your vehicle in the parking lot. I'm assuming this is not a USPSA match then? Handling a gun at your car at a USPSA match will get you sent home early. Or at least helping with the pasting and breakdown duties only. Seriously, I've been to USPSA matches where they did this. It was a while back and I haven't been there in years, I hope it's changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) The only places you holster or unholster are: at your vehicle in the parking lot. I'm assuming this is not a USPSA match then? Handling a gun at your car at a USPSA match will get you sent home early. You've got parking lot nazis at your USPSA-sanctioned matches? Interesting. I will admit I have not read every letter of the USPSA rules and am ignorant what the rule book says about handling your gun in/at your car in the range's parking lot. But I'll look now. Not finding it. In fact, section 2.5.1 provides for the possibility of competitors arriving at a USPSA match with a loaded firearm on them. Are we talking about an area where local gun laws are in play, not USPSA rules? My practice is to arrive with an unloaded firearm in my range bag. When I decide it's time to holster my gun, I go to one of the safe areas and put the unloaded gun (hammer down, no magazine in, of course) in my holster. I remain in that state until the match is over or unless I'm shooting a stage. Section 5.2 appears to explicitly allow for this practice. I don't see in the USPSA rulebook where there would be a problem with me walking from the parking lot to the range with an unloaded gun in my holster and leaving with an unloaded gun in my holster. Please enlighten me. Edited July 28, 2015 by GunBugBit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) A consideration I haven't seen here yet.... My open gun ( and limiteds before this) have thru cuts in the slide. When it is blowing dust the last thing I want is grit in my 4k pistol so if I don't have a gun cover on hand I will bag my gun between stages. Now that said unless the safety table is a really long walk I will holster up before its my turn. As far as handing the RO my bag... I think it is my responsibility to keep my gear together. If I start a stage from the bag, after putting my pistol in holster after make ready I politely huck the simple pistol sleeve/ bag back toward the peanut gallery and one of the crew puts it with my gear. After the stage I retrieve my bag and head to the safety table. All this said, if I had an RO get snitty with me for starting from a bag, and the MD agreed, well I'd not shoot there again. I guess I am blessed that the MD's for me locally are all squared away. Edited July 28, 2015 by Ultimo-Hombre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Totally in the dark about where this practice of handing a bag to an RO comes from. It's foreign to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Totally in the dark about where this practice of handing a bag to an RO comes from. It's foreign to me. Then I wonder how long you have been in competitive shooting. It is very common for RF shooters in steel challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty Hamby Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 No RO/ARO should be holding you pistol bag for you in USPSA. RO's need to be a bit more available with their hands in USPSA than in SC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Interesting. The times that I RO'ed a shooter with a bagged gun, I have told them "make ready". They hand me the bag, I just either hang on to it with my non-timer hand or put it under my arm or stuff it under my belt. When the stage is over, I give them "If clear, hammer down holster". If they holster, I call range is clear and hand them the bag. If they want the bag, I give it to them and when the gun is secure, I call range is clear. No need for any blustering or drama. I don't recall many runs where I needed two hands and if I did, I would simply drop the bag and do what I needed to do. There are no rules against it and it hardly worth getting all spun up over. Chill and run the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Interesting. The times that I RO'ed a shooter with a bagged gun, I have told them "make ready". They hand me the bag, I just either hang on to it with my non-timer hand or put it under my arm or stuff it under my belt. When the stage is over, I give them "If clear, hammer down holster". If they holster, I call range is clear and hand them the bag. If they want the bag, I give it to them and when the gun is secure, I call range is clear. No need for any blustering or drama. I don't recall many runs where I needed two hands and if I did, I would simply drop the bag and do what I needed to do. There are no rules against it and it hardly worth getting all spun up over. Chill and run the shooter. Great post. This is how I think we all should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Interesting. The times that I RO'ed a shooter with a bagged gun, I have told them "make ready". They hand me the bag, I just either hang on to it with my non-timer hand or put it under my arm or stuff it under my belt. When the stage is over, I give them "If clear, hammer down holster". If they holster, I call range is clear and hand them the bag. If they want the bag, I give it to them and when the gun is secure, I call range is clear. No need for any blustering or drama. I don't recall many runs where I needed two hands and if I did, I would simply drop the bag and do what I needed to do. There are no rules against it and it hardly worth getting all spun up over. Chill and run the shooter. I agree, well said. I can think of lots of reasons someone might want to bag/unbag at the line. In our area the winter rain is one of them. Fortunately our ranges have safety areas close, but it isn't uncommon to to it at the line in some of the farther bays. Typically the bag is quickly handed off to the scoring RO. Not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) The only places you holster or unholster are: at your vehicle in the parking lot. I'm assuming this is not a USPSA match then? Handling a gun at your car at a USPSA match will get you sent home early. You've got parking lot nazis at your USPSA-sanctioned matches? Interesting. I will admit I have not read every letter of the USPSA rules and am ignorant what the rule book says about handling your gun in/at your car in the range's parking lot. But I'll look now. Not finding it. In fact, section 2.5.1 provides for the possibility of competitors arriving at a USPSA match with a loaded firearm on them. Are we talking about an area where local gun laws are in play, not USPSA rules? My practice is to arrive with an unloaded firearm in my range bag. When I decide it's time to holster my gun, I go to one of the safe areas and put the unloaded gun (hammer down, no magazine in, of course) in my holster. I remain in that state until the match is over or unless I'm shooting a stage. Section 5.2 appears to explicitly allow for this practice. I don't see in the USPSA rulebook where there would be a problem with me walking from the parking lot to the range with an unloaded gun in my holster and leaving with an unloaded gun in my holster. Please enlighten me. 10.5.1 And grit and winter rain? Turn in your man card. Edited July 29, 2015 by PKT1106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Most of the time people carry their guns because there are too few or only one safety table at a local match. Sometimes people forget to gun up again after lunch. I'm with ChuckS. Not a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alecmc Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 But if a bag my gun, how are the people supposed to check out my sweet gat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Piece of mind would be my answer. In NY having a gun stolen or lost would result in 6-12+ month suspension of your license which was required to even posses a handgun in your own home. Leaving it in a range bag unattended while helping to run a stage was not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 The only places you holster or unholster are: at your vehicle in the parking lot. I'm assuming this is not a USPSA match then? Handling a gun at your car at a USPSA match will get you sent home early. You've got parking lot nazis at your USPSA-sanctioned matches? Interesting. I will admit I have not read every letter of the USPSA rules and am ignorant what the rule book says about handling your gun in/at your car in the range's parking lot. But I'll look now. Not finding it. In fact, section 2.5.1 provides for the possibility of competitors arriving at a USPSA match with a loaded firearm on them. Are we talking about an area where local gun laws are in play, not USPSA rules? My practice is to arrive with an unloaded firearm in my range bag. When I decide it's time to holster my gun, I go to one of the safe areas and put the unloaded gun (hammer down, no magazine in, of course) in my holster. I remain in that state until the match is over or unless I'm shooting a stage. Section 5.2 appears to explicitly allow for this practice. I don't see in the USPSA rulebook where there would be a problem with me walking from the parking lot to the range with an unloaded gun in my holster and leaving with an unloaded gun in my holster. Please enlighten me. Parking lot is part of the match. It becomes a problem, once you unholster or unbar at your car. We've now got you handling a gun, not under RO supervision/direction, and not at a safe table..... While I don't have a rulebook in front of me, I'm confident of my ability to find a rule in section 10.5 that warrants a match DQ for gun handling in the parking lot.... Now if you're getting in the car with the holstered, unloaded gun to drive home, or arriving that way -- that works too, as long as you keep the gun belt on...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Interesting. The times that I RO'ed a shooter with a bagged gun, I have told them "make ready". They hand me the bag, I just either hang on to it with my non-timer hand or put it under my arm or stuff it under my belt. When the stage is over, I give them "If clear, hammer down holster". If they holster, I call range is clear and hand them the bag. If they want the bag, I give it to them and when the gun is secure, I call range is clear. No need for any blustering or drama. I don't recall many runs where I needed two hands and if I did, I would simply drop the bag and do what I needed to do. There are no rules against it and it hardly worth getting all spun up over. Chill and run the shooter. Great post. This is how I think we all should be. As a competitor, after unbagging I'll holster the gun, and tuck the bag into the back of my belt -- ready to retrieve at the end of the stage, if needed.... While I appreciate ROs who offer to hold it -- I can handle the consequences of my choices myself..... Options are good! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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