Stupid question - walking around with holstered guns

[scottlep]

I primarily shoot Steel Challenge where few shooters walk around with holstered guns. Personally I do not like walking around with a holstered gun when at USPSA matches mainly due to the weight hanging from my hips all day, the potential for a dropped gun or other brain-fart moment. I have an older friend that I shoot USPSA with and he has been shooting it for many years. He said that up until a few years ago few shooters walked around with guns in their holsters during USPSA matches and would bag their guns between stages. When it was their turn to shoot they would approach the start, unbag at the RO command and just hand the bag to the scorer or RO so they could bag their gun at the end of the run. Or, if each stage had a safe table, shooters would just un-bag and holster their gun at the table when they are in the hole or on deck, then re-bag the gun at the safe table when finished shooting the stage.

Has it become bad USPSA etiquette to want to bag your gun? If I choose to do this is it going to irritate some ROs/scorers? Is there a legitimate reason for not bagging your gun when you aren't shooting?

Edited July 27, 2015 by scottlep

[alecmc]

....or accidently unholstering your gun while standing around.

;-)

[atbarr]

I can see this with Steel, not USPSA. When will the shooter be able to bag his pistol?

[scottlep]

....or accidently unholstering your gun while standing around.

;-)

Yes, this^^^ Thus my part about "other brain-fart moment"

[scottlep]

I can see this with Steel, not USPSA. When will the shooter be able to bag his pistol?

As I said, either at the end of the stage after the ULSC the RO or scorer hands you the bag or after the stage walk back to the safe table if there is one on each bay and re-bag the gun

[P.E. Kelley]

As an "old guy" the practical shooting sports have had baggers and non-baggers since the advent of dedicated "speed holsters"

When I had a "Spillmore" (Gilmore) holster I bagged, when ran my Sparks 1AT the gun was on all day.

[Hi-Power Jack]

until a few years ago few shooters walked around with guns in their holsters during USPSA matches

That must have been MANY years ago, because everyone holsters their gun

for the past 8 years at least, and when I shot 20 years ago, I think I remember

everyone holstering their gun.

I've tried it a few times, and usually someone will ask me to keep It holstered

rather than walking up to the line with a bagged gun, holstering, and having

to unholster at the end into a bag - "why don't you just keep it in your holster?"

One IDPA match I attended a few times was a "Hot Range" - we kept loaded

guns in our holsters all during the match - that's a LOT of fun - no problems

with that either.

No real problem either way - really a Non-Problem, either way, IMHO.

Do whatever you feel comfortable with.

[PatJones]

As P.E. Kelley noted, competition holsters are better than they used to be reducing the need to bag.

[Chuck Anderson]

It's regional to a degree. Some areas I shoot a significant portion still bag. Especially Open shooters in the winter when it is pouring down rain. I think it also varies based on the number of guys who shoot majors. Almost every major match I've shot has a requirement you come to the line ready to go with a holstered gun. Once "X" number of shooters go to those bigger matches that mentality filters down to locals. Shoot a club where no one shoots major, might still be bagging.

As far as how to bag at the end you hand the bag to the RO who either keeps it or passes it to the scorekeeper. They give it back at ULSC. It's not rocket science.

[Graham Smith]

I know a few open shooters who always bag their gun between stages, but not any other divisions.

[gng4life]

I've been shooting USPSA for more than a few decades and it's been rare to bag between stages from my experience. Even back when I was running the Safariland 00x holsters or the Bianchi Hemisphere holster. I had a few drops I can remember but I just found ways to lock them in better. I still remember the first time I had my pistol knocked from my Hemisphere at an Area match, not a good feeling. Now I am running a DAA RM holster, the firearm is very secure and there has never been a need to unbag until I'm done with the last stage. I don't know of anyone else that unbags between stages either. Now in SC, that's a different story. I know several that bag between stages, both RF and CF.

[Gary Stevens]

Adding unnecessary time to the stage is uncalled for. Using the safety area is better, IMO.

[Sarge]

Adding unnecessary time to the stage is uncalled for. Using the safety area is better, IMO.

As usual you said that much better than I would have coach.

I would have most likely blurted out that a shooter needs to be ready for the make ready command when he steps to the line and not assume an RO Is going to carry his case or bag for him.

On rare occasions when I get handed a bag and I'm running shooters I immediately toss it to the peanut gallery.

[JulieTheCat]

If you are concerned with "accidentally" taking your gun out of your holster when you're not supposed to, you should do everyone a favor and stay far away from an action pistol match.

[Chuck Anderson]

Adding unnecessary time to the stage is uncalled for. Using the safety area is better, IMO.

Sounds a bit like an IPSC match. The whole adding time thing. A lot depends on where the safety areas are for the range. If the nearest one is four bays over, the time it takes you to wander over, bag and unbag instead of helping reset is going to be more than just bagging at the line. I've also seen stages where the young kid bags so he can run down and reset the 50 yard poppers every time.

Of course if I was on a range and the RO was tossing my gear around I'd probably just pack up and leave along with a disciplinary request to DNROI. There's no excuse to risk damage to another competitors gear. If you as an RO/Scoring RO are too lazy to carry around a 3 oz bag, feel free to tell me and I'll go unbag. Toss my stuff hoping someone will catch it, I probably won't be shooting there long.

[scottlep]

Adding unnecessary time to the stage is uncalled for. Using the safety area is better, IMO.

Sounds a bit like an IPSC match. The whole adding time thing. A lot depends on where the safety areas are for the range. If the nearest one is four bays over, the time it takes you to wander over, bag and unbag instead of helping reset is going to be more than just bagging at the line. I've also seen stages where the young kid bags so he can run down and reset the 50 yard poppers every time.

Of course if I was on a range and the RO was tossing my gear around I'd probably just pack up and leave along with a disciplinary request to DNROI. There's no excuse to risk damage to another competitors gear. If you as an RO/Scoring RO are too lazy to carry around a 3 oz bag, feel free to tell me and I'll go unbag. Toss my stuff hoping someone will catch it, I probably won't be shooting there long.

I agree Chuck. Un-bagging and re-bagging a gun might take all of 20 seconds, if that long. If this is done during the shooter's make ready time why does it matter how long it takes as long as he doesn't go over the allotted time to make ready?

[scottlep]

If you are concerned with "accidentally" taking your gun out of your holster when you're not supposed to, you should do everyone a favor and stay far away from an action pistol match.

Wow, this is an extremely ignorant response to the original post. Even if "accidentally" taking the gun out of the holster was the premise behind my original post, I would say that your response is extremely arrogant, almost implying that you are immune to making a mistake, have never made a mistake, or have never been DQ'd or would never make a mistake resulting in a DQ. To me that arrogance is even more dangerous than admitting there is potential to make a mistake when walking around with an unloaded holstered gun. How many times have you seen shooters fiddling with their gun when standing around waiting to shoot, whether it is just resting their hand on it, gripping it, etc that could in some way lead to the gun being accidentally or intentionally unholstered? Maybe I am not as experienced as you as an “action pistol match” shooter, but I have shot enough matches to know it happens all day long on every squad and every match I have ever shot, so the potential for that mistake is there.

[Pasley]

I primarily shoot Steel Challenge where few shooters walk around with holstered guns.

Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen anybody bag a centerfire pistol between stages at the steel challenge match I shoot.

[PKT1106]

Of course if I was on a range and the RO was tossing my gear around I'd probably just pack up and leave along with a disciplinary request to DNROI. There's no excuse to risk damage to another competitors gear. If you as an RO/Scoring RO are too lazy to carry around a 3 oz bag, feel free to tell me and I'll go unbag. Toss my stuff hoping someone will catch it, I probably won't be shooting there long.

I hope DNROI would tell you what I would, your gear, your responsibility. If an RO is gracious enough to take your bag from you, I would hope they handle it respectfully, but they certainly have no duty to be it's caretaker.

[Sarge]

Adding unnecessary time to the stage is uncalled for. Using the safety area is better, IMO.

Sounds a bit like an IPSC match. The whole adding time thing. A lot depends on where the safety areas are for the range. If the nearest one is four bays over, the time it takes you to wander over, bag and unbag instead of helping reset is going to be more than just bagging at the line. I've also seen stages where the young kid bags so he can run down and reset the 50 yard poppers every time.

Of course if I was on a range and the RO was tossing my gear around I'd probably just pack up and leave along with a disciplinary request to DNROI. There's no excuse to risk damage to another competitors gear. If you as an RO/Scoring RO are too lazy to carry around a 3 oz bag, feel free to tell me and I'll go unbag. Toss my stuff hoping someone will catch it, I probably won't be shooting there long.

Here we go! A disciplinary request for tossing a pouch to another shooter because I'm not going to be a pack mule for a shooter who doesn't feel comfortable bolstering a pistol at an action pistol match? GEEZULPETES!!!

Shooting gear getting damaged? BWahaha I have a whole shelf full of gun pouches and would gladly replace one if it gets destroyed as a result of my actions. Funny stuff right there.

Casually tossing "gear" to somebody else so it doesn't hinder my ability to safely run a shooter through a COF seems well within my right as an RO. Hell, when I shoot I am never so presumptuous as to hand any of my "gear " to the RO. This may shock you but I generally just toss my gun bag on the ground behind me if the roles are reversed. Those shooters connection pouches are some seriously rugged "gear" as I have thrown mine around quite a bit and it still works fine.

There are always odd things happening at matches and sometimes shooters come to the line with a bagged gun. Hey, when you have to poop you have to poop! I have no problem taking a bag and tossing it to a shooter to lay it on your gear. But those are exceptions for the most part.

I'm with Julie on this.

[scottlep]

Adding unnecessary time to the stage is uncalled for. Using the safety area is better, IMO.

Sounds a bit like an IPSC match. The whole adding time thing. A lot depends on where the safety areas are for the range. If the nearest one is four bays over, the time it takes you to wander over, bag and unbag instead of helping reset is going to be more than just bagging at the line. I've also seen stages where the young kid bags so he can run down and reset the 50 yard poppers every time.

Of course if I was on a range and the RO was tossing my gear around I'd probably just pack up and leave along with a disciplinary request to DNROI. There's no excuse to risk damage to another competitors gear. If you as an RO/Scoring RO are too lazy to carry around a 3 oz bag, feel free to tell me and I'll go unbag. Toss my stuff hoping someone will catch it, I probably won't be shooting there long.

Here we go! A disciplinary request for tossing a pouch to another shooter because I'm not going to be a pack mule for a shooter who doesn't feel comfortable bolstering a pistol at an action pistol match? GEEZULPETES!!!

Shooting gear getting damaged? BWahaha I have a whole shelf full of gun pouches and would gladly replace one if it gets destroyed as a result of my actions. Funny stuff right there.

Casually tossing "gear" to somebody else so it doesn't hinder my ability to safely run a shooter through a COF seems well within my right as an RO. Hell, when I shoot I am never so presumptuous as to hand any of my "gear " to the RO. This may shock you but I generally just toss my gun bag on the ground behind me if the roles are reversed. Those shooters connection pouches are some seriously rugged "gear" as I have thrown mine around quite a bit and it still works fine.

There are always odd things happening at matches and sometimes shooters come to the line with a bagged gun. Hey, when you have to poop you have to poop! I have no problem taking a bag and tossing it to a shooter to lay it on your gear. But those are exceptions for the most part.

I'm with Julie on this.

So I guess this answers my original question of "If I choose to do this is it going to irritate some ROs/scorers?" If Sarge is ROing a match I wind up shooting I'll try not to irritate him by expecting him to be a pack mule with my silly gun rug. I guess my original question was truly stupid based on some of the responses here. So much for open and intelligent discussion.

[PKT1106]

Scott, the question is not stupid. It is valid, but I don't care who the shooter is, your gear is your gear. It is not on the RO to take care of it. I can see his point as being irritating. Personally, I don't want to get into a situation where the zipper comes off because the stitching finally wore out and now the shooter accuses me of breaking it while he/she was shooting.

[MAC702]

I've not seen bagging in a long time, but we don't have as many Open GM's shooting locally on a regular basis like we did twenty years ago, either, which is when you usually saw it. Bagging/unbagging time was insignificant, and RO's or scorekeepers were more than happy to accommodate, but it wouldn't be a big deal for a friend to hand you back your bag at the end of a stage, either.

I'm shooting with the same gun and holster I wear everyday, so it's natural for it to be there for me anyway; except it does feel a little light with no bullets in it.

Edited July 27, 2015 by MAC702

[Sarge]

Adding unnecessary time to the stage is uncalled for. Using the safety area is better, IMO.

Sounds a bit like an IPSC match. The whole adding time thing. A lot depends on where the safety areas are for the range. If the nearest one is four bays over, the time it takes you to wander over, bag and unbag instead of helping reset is going to be more than just bagging at the line. I've also seen stages where the young kid bags so he can run down and reset the 50 yard poppers every time.

Of course if I was on a range and the RO was tossing my gear around I'd probably just pack up and leave along with a disciplinary request to DNROI. There's no excuse to risk damage to another competitors gear. If you as an RO/Scoring RO are too lazy to carry around a 3 oz bag, feel free to tell me and I'll go unbag. Toss my stuff hoping someone will catch it, I probably won't be shooting there long.

Here we go! A disciplinary request for tossing a pouch to another shooter because I'm not going to be a pack mule for a shooter who doesn't feel comfortable bolstering a pistol at an action pistol match? GEEZULPETES!!!

Shooting gear getting damaged? BWahaha I have a whole shelf full of gun pouches and would gladly replace one if it gets destroyed as a result of my actions. Funny stuff right there.

Casually tossing "gear" to somebody else so it doesn't hinder my ability to safely run a shooter through a COF seems well within my right as an RO. Hell, when I shoot I am never so presumptuous as to hand any of my "gear " to the RO. This may shock you but I generally just toss my gun bag on the ground behind me if the roles are reversed. Those shooters connection pouches are some seriously rugged "gear" as I have thrown mine around quite a bit and it still works fine.

There are always odd things happening at matches and sometimes shooters come to the line with a bagged gun. Hey, when you have to poop you have to poop! I have no problem taking a bag and tossing it to a shooter to lay it on your gear. But those are exceptions for the most part.

I'm with Julie on this.

So I guess this answers my original question of "If I choose to do this is it going to irritate some ROs/scorers?" If Sarge is ROing a match I wind up shooting I'll try not to irritate him by expecting him to be a pack mule with my silly gun rug. I guess my original question was truly stupid based on some of the responses here. So much for open and intelligent discussion.

The funny thing is it wouldn't irritate me. I just am not going to run through a 32 round field course carrying a shooters stuff. I said I would toss or flip it to somebody else is all. I didn't say I would turn around and mock the shooter and slam his gun bag on the ground and scream " I'm a certified range officer damn it and I am above carrying you're Fing gear".

While I have heard some really stupid questions in my life and on the range this one isn't really THAT stupid.

[Chuck Anderson]

Of course if I was on a range and the RO was tossing my gear around I'd probably just pack up and leave along with a disciplinary request to DNROI. There's no excuse to risk damage to another competitors gear. If you as an RO/Scoring RO are too lazy to carry around a 3 oz bag, feel free to tell me and I'll go unbag. Toss my stuff hoping someone will catch it, I probably won't be shooting there long.

I hope DNROI would tell you what I would, your gear, your responsibility. If an RO is gracious enough to take your bag from you, I would hope they handle it respectfully, but they certainly have no duty to be it's caretaker.

I'm sure with the current DNROI he couldn't care less what my opinion is and would tell me to pound sand with such a request. Doesn't mean I wouldn't make it though. As far as the bag itself, no, tossing it on the ground probably wouldn't damage it. And it's been well over a decade since I asked an RO to hold my purse for me. But I routinely have shooters come to the line bagged and I would never consider tossing their stuff to the "Peanut Gallery." Particularly since sometimes that bag contains spare mags or even another gun. It's just unnecessarily disrespectful. If I'm the RO and just can't be burdened to deal with such horrible task I'd just ask the shooter to go unbag and call the next shooter to the line. Then afterwards explain to them why I felt it necessary. There's no reason to be a tool as an RO. Would you do the same thing with a brand new shooter who didn't know any better? Usually on the rare occasions when I do come to the line bagged I throw it on the ground myself. But I certainly wouldn't treat a shooter with so little respect as to do the same with their property.