Shooters That Won't Help

[CHA-LEE]

Unless you have white and black tape, it looks terrible and is a dis-service to the next guy who is looking at the strange color on a penalty or non-scoring target, drawing their eye to it.

One of the local clubs here doesn't buy black or white pasters and it is a source of complaining for us.

Then stop going to their match. If they are too lazy to buy proper supplies then why support hem with your $$$ and attendance?

[Nimitz]

Do we really need to have a discussion on the "best" way to paste a stage full of targets? 5 guys walking out on the stage at the same time, each with a strip of plasters or 2 guys following the RO around and paste after scoring while others reset steel .... Pretty sure either method works rather well for the typical level 1 match .....

The focus should be on those who don't seem to realize that grabbing plasters to help reset is basically mandatory .... Period.

[greyhounder]

Best read idea for non helper, don't set up on his turn when he notices hand him the pasters here you go or would you prefer a DNF?

[BritinUSA]

Back when I first moved to Colorado the system used to be that the scorer would call the names of the next three competitors, then they would call the next two people to tape (or patch) and one to pick up brass. This method seemed to work very well as each competitor only had to work 3 times for that stage.

For some reason or other we stopped doing it that way.

If you have a good squad then its not really needed but it can lead to some people working much harder than others if their work ethic is stronger. Calling out the names of those who are scheduled to work may lead to less fatigue and burnout at the matches though.

[Fatboywoody]

Not sure how to habdle it,but it is very frustrating when you are running the Kindle & then pasting so the next shooter can go.

[bkfranklin22]

They get yelled at!

[9x45]

Trent1k1, on 24 Jun 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

Unless you have white and black tape, it looks terrible and is a dis-service to the next guy who is looking at the strange color on a penalty or non-scoring target, drawing their eye to it.

One of the local clubs here doesn't buy black or white pasters and it is a source of complaining

If they are a sanctioned USPSA club, then they have agreed to operate to the rules. Take it up with the MD first.

[motosapiens]

I'd kinda like to try the norwegian method (reported by ben stoeger), where each shooter is designated to paste and reset for the two shooters immediately following him, then you're free to goof off, clean mags, etc... Before you shoot you don't have to reset at all, just prepare yourself.

You might need to do 3 turns on a complicated stage, but it seems way more efficient.

[ES13Raven]

You might need to do 3 turns on a complicated stage, but it seems way more efficient.

I just don't see how that is efficient. Normally we have about 15 shooters on a Squad. If there are 16 targets, and 10 people are taping at the same time - that goes much faster than 2 people taping 16 targets (after they are scored).

[davidwiz]

Having RO'ed at several USPSA Nationals, I've seen more than a few shooters who refuse/won't help paste and re-set targets over the years. Usually what happens is the CRO or RM will have a quite "word" with the person which usually resolves the situation.

For the local club matches where I shoot, there are usually one or two people who are the "shoot and scoot" types who don't help set-up the stages before, don't help tape/reset, and are gone as soon as they are done shooting. The problem is that the MD knows who these people are but generally refuse to do anything about it, which hurts everyone who does help.

[frgood]

I have had, once or twice, found I was alone pasting the entire stage. In both cases, everyone found themselves,eventually, standing and watching. I simply moved very slowly. I places every piece of tape very deliberately. The shooter stood and simply waited about 4 minutes for the 'Make Ready'. The RO simply waited to let the message sink in. On the last target, I decided to double back to see if I missed anything. By then everyone was watching.

Everyone was on a target for the rest of the day and we taped as fast as we the scoring took. Things moved much faster.

[Sarge]

Not helping can start very early too. I saw a newer junior shooter at a recent major not paste a single target on my stage. I tend to not get involved in squad politics but it was amazing how the squad thought nothing of it.

[motosapiens]

You might need to do 3 turns on a complicated stage, but it seems way more efficient.

I just don't see how that is efficient. Normally we have about 15 shooters on a Squad. If there are 16 targets, and 10 people are taping at the same time - that goes much faster than 2 people taping 16 targets (after they are scored).

how can it go any faster. 2 people should be able to easily tape targets as fast as they are scored, and that's the fastest that targets can be taped. Usually most of the 10 people are just standing by a single target waiting.

Edited July 24, 2015 by motosapiens

[Nik Habicht]

Out here all the clubs use tape. I've tried pasters and they don't work as well as tape. Tape is better because shooters can take several strips and put them on their leg or wherever and tear off pieces as needed. Being able to tear off a bigger or smaller piece is nice depending on the holes in the cardboard.

Not really in favor of sticking tape on clothing first, as it cuts down on its ability to adhere to targets.....

Then again, I'm guilty of doing it at matches that run strictly on tape, and it's more economical to do that.....

[Nik Habicht]

You might need to do 3 turns on a complicated stage, but it seems way more efficient.

I just don't see how that is efficient. Normally we have about 15 shooters on a Squad. If there are 16 targets, and 10 people are taping at the same time - that goes much faster than 2 people taping 16 targets (after they are scored).

how can it go any faster. 2 people should be able to easily tape targets as fast as they are scored, and that's the fastest that targets can be taped. Usually most of the 10 people are just standing by a single target waiting.

Bingo. I'll take two people with boxes of posters, who know how to use them, over ten people with tape, who are standing around waiting for the RO.....

Now having another couple of people to set steel and movers, and close doors/port covers/windows, etc -- that would help....

[ES13Raven]

Not really in favor of sticking tape on clothing first, as it cuts down on its ability to adhere to targets.....

I guess it depends on what the clothing is made out of. I wear 5.11 shorts and can re-stick tape on it 5 times with no issues with adhesion to targets. It's usually gone before 5 times though.

[ES13Raven]

Bingo. I'll take two people with boxes of posters, who know how to use them, over ten people with tape, who are standing around waiting for the RO.....

I guess we do it a little different at our Club matches. The Scorekeeper starts to score the targets he can safely see while the shooter is still shooting. Other shooters start taping after the Scorekeeper scores them. If there is a mike, no-shoot or questionable call - Shooters don't tape that one so the Shooter and RO can see it. We get done with the Stage a lot faster this way.

[jester121]

You might need to do 3 turns on a complicated stage, but it seems way more efficient.

I just don't see how that is efficient. Normally we have about 15 shooters on a Squad. If there are 16 targets, and 10 people are taping at the same time - that goes much faster than 2 people taping 16 targets (after they are scored).

Logically it's far more efficient having 2 (maybe 3) people doing all the reset. The 10 people are mostly standing around waiting for the RO to come past, and then milling around or backtracking to see if someone missed a target back at the beginning, then the RO is waiting for them to clear the stage. Also, the guy who's been resetting the swinger for the first 8 shooters doesn't tell anyone when he stops resetting to go on deck, which is how reset problems lead to reshoots.

I'd very much like to see this in operation at a major match. With embedded ROs at a local it's a bit more complicated, but not unworkable. I figure Ben has shot enough big matches around the world with every local custom imaginable, so it seems worth considering.

[9x45]

Having RO'ed at several USPSA Nationals, I've seen more than a few shooters who refuse/won't help paste and re-set targets over the years. Usually what happens is the CRO or RM will have a quite "word" with the person which usually resolves the situation.

For the local club matches where I shoot, there are usually one or two people who are the "shoot and scoot" types who don't help set-up the stages before, don't help tape/reset, and are gone as soon as they are done shooting. The problem is that the MD knows who these people are but generally refuse to do anything about it, which hurts everyone who does help.

Like I said earllier, at the end of they day for local level, you have to tell them to get lost, go find another squad, who will tell them the same thing, pretty soon, they end up as a squad of one, problem solved. And yes, most MD's will not do anything about it, so it's up to the sqaud leader. I don't come out with my buds to baby sit these prima donnas....

[Sarge]

And then we have Bob Vogel helping set up the MI sectional today. He also is one of the first squad members down range to reset. If a shooter of that distinction can help.........

[HCH]

Yell at them and hand them some tape.

[BeerBaron]

Back when I first moved to Colorado the system used to be that the scorer would call the names of the next three competitors, then they would call the next two people to tape (or patch) and one to pick up brass. This method seemed to work very well as each competitor only had to work 3 times for that stage.

For some reason or other we stopped doing it that way.

If you have a good squad then its not really needed but it can lead to some people working much harder than others if their work ethic is stronger. Calling out the names of those who are scheduled to work may lead to less fatigue and burnout at the matches though.

That is a pretty good idea. Maybe make it the next 4 people on long field courses with 16 targets etc. and maybe just the next 2 shooters on short courses with only 4 or 5 targets. Seems simple and effective to me.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

I really like the idea of having the person who just shot reset/ tape for the next two.

So many guys don't want to work right before they shoot because they are focused on stage plan, nervous, etc. work for two or three after you shoot, then go clean mags, reload, think about the next stage.

Moto, let's try this.

[Sarge]

I really like the idea of having the person who just shot reset/ tape for the next two.

So many guys don't want to work right before they shoot because they are focused on stage plan, nervous, etc. work for two or three after you shoot, then go clean mags, reload, think about the next stage.

Moto, let's try this.

I don't know if that would catch on. After shooting a shooter should focus on getting everything back in order

[racnsoonr]

I really like the idea of having the person who just shot reset/ tape for the next two.

So many guys don't want to work right before they shoot because they are focused on stage plan, nervous, etc. work for two or three after you shoot, then go clean mags, reload, think about the next stage.

Moto, let's try this.

I don't know if that would catch on. After shooting a shooter should focus on getting everything back in order

I'm with Sarge on that one...

I think that the ro should be aware if what's going on and then after all has been reset...say, hey you in the green shirt, please go and check that target for tape...obviously pick the farthest one. Then when he comes back and says, no, it's taped. Oh, ok..thank you for your help

If he does it on the next stage...repeat until he gets the picture