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Shooters That Won't Help


ES13Raven
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How does your Club handle shooters that won't help tape, reset or RO?

In a recent match, our Squad had to wait for around 30 minutes on every Stage (except the one we started on). It made for a really long day. Normal wait times at our Club are 0-10 minutes.

We noticed that about 1/3 to 1/2 of the shooters on the Squad ahead of us were not helping tape, reset etc. They were just sitting back BS'ing. Not loading or cleaning mags for sure.

You would think they would realize that another Squad is waiting on them, and they should try and keep things moving so they don't bottleneck the Match... Nope.

A few of us from our Squad started helping them tape & reset. After the RO called "Range is clear!" he was not calling "Tapers!" - so we started to do that as well, hoping the other Squad would get off their ass.

More shooters from their Squad started to help, but about 1/4 of the Squad still would not lift a finger. It was the same faces every time (not new shooters).

How does your Club handle shooters like this?

Edited by ES13Raven
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That really blows. I'm thankful I haven't experienced it anywhere near the degree you are describing. I imagine there are a few in every club. Certainly continue to lead by example and call them out to help as you're walking by them - shaming them. If that doesn't work, I suppose it's time for a board member to get involved as he/she will have clout. Anyone else complaining and is are there few enough on the squad it is slowing things down? If so, it's time to act.

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I think the Score-Keeper RO should call out the name of the shooter, on-deck and in the hole and then call out the next three names to reset the stage, tape targets etc. Hand them the tape, if they don't comply then 10.6.1, it may sound harsh but I bet you only have to do it once.

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I am not going to be much help as I haven't ever figured out how to motivate people in a volunteer anything.

As I see it, your two options are:

A. Don't have formal squads. Let people figure out on their own who they want to squad with.

B. Let these same "gaggle squads" float from bay to bay or stage to stage, to go to the stage which has either no line or the shortest line of people waiting. If they started out on stage 1, they don't necessarily have to go directly to stage 2.

People, much like electricity, will take the path of least resistance.

Also, the folks who know what the hell is going on (with respect to say stage procedures, scoring, taping, resetting, RO'ing) will more than likely squad with people of the same mindset or ability.

The slackers or idiots will get ejected from the veterans' "cliques".

The newbs who want to do better by picking up a few hints and tips from the veterans or if they just want to zip through the match, will square themselves away if they want to keep hanging with the veterans.

Edited by Chills1994
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the RO should call out the name of the shooter, on-deck and in the hole and then call out the next three names to reset the stage, tape targets etc.

:bow: :bow: :bow: That solves the problem, doesn't it? :bow: :bow: :bow:

3 shooter resetting isn't always enough.

When you have 19 shooters in a Squad (like we did), high-round count stages, and props etc. - it is so much faster if everyone resets. This excludes the shooter (who should be reloading), on-deck shooter, RO, ARO / Scorekeeper and Brasser.

Edited by ES13Raven
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I like this idea I found:

100% sure way to get the NON Paster to paste targets...............

After figuring out the LAZY S.O.B./D.O.B. is a non-paster, get among the other squad members and DO NOT PASTE the targets of the shooter before him/her.

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To my knowledge there is not a specific rule called out for this at our local clubs but implied that the squad work as a team to accomplish what you are saying. I have noticed locally that the RO may start calling out for resetters and brassers if the squad starts to lose focus.

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If it gets this bad, the MD needs to get involved. He or she should have a talk with the squad AND then closely monitor that squad. They should stay with that squad and motivate the shooters to keep things moving. However, there will be some that can't help too much due to health issues or whatever but there are other ways they can assist. If they are just BS'ing, that should be addressed ASAP.

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Health issues that allow them to shoot, but not paste?

Ok....

As an RO at our club, we allow for a little socialization. Not everyone has to post every time. Peer pressure usually does it, or a quick chat with those that don't to remind them of unsportsmanlike conduct and the penalty they just received for the last stage usually wakes them up.

I design and build stages, run shooters, do registration and scores. If I can paste targets, so can shooters.

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I think the Score-Keeper RO should call out the name of the shooter, on-deck and in the hole and then call out the next three names to reset the stage, tape targets etc. Hand them the tape, if they don't comply then 10.6.1, it may sound harsh but I bet you only have to do it once.

I'd like to see you try that one !!!!

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Its pretty simple, figure out when one of the non working shooters is coming up to shoot and don't reset the stage. When they get ready you tell them that they need to reset for their run as they were not helping. It only needs to be done once.

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This is one of my biggest pet peeves. The worst was this past weekend, my squad is waiting on every stage. 2 guys in my squad are complaining about the non pasters in the squad in front of us. Odd thing is, those 2 guys were the ones sitting on their stools in the shade and telling war stories instead of doing any pasting in our squad. I'm pretty new to USPSA and thought there was an unwritten rule that if you were old, fat, or good you didn't have to do any work.

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I am old, skinny, and only a B class competitor, and still do more work ( resetting , past , etc. ) on a stage than 70 % of my fellow shooters. Not many CRO's / RO's want to call out the slackers.

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the RO should call out the name of the shooter, on-deck and in the hole and then call out the next three names to reset the stage, tape targets etc.

:bow: :bow: :bow: That solves the problem, doesn't it? :bow: :bow: :bow:

3 shooter resetting isn't always enough.

When you have 19 shooters in a Squad (like we did), high-round count stages, and props etc. - it is so much faster if everyone resets. This excludes the shooter (who should be reloading), on-deck shooter, RO, ARO / Scorekeeper and Brasser.

It should also exclude the shooter who just shot, as they are cleaning mags, reloading, etc.
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1. put them all on their own squad by themselves even if it will be a short squad

2. don't reset/tape the stage for them & let them know they will be required to paste & reset their own stage

3. get the MD involved

#2 will likely work the best - peer pressure is always the best

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1. put them all on their own squad by themselves even if it will be a short squad

2. don't reset/tape the stage for them & let them know they will be required to paste & reset their own stage

3. get the MD involved

#2 will likely work the best - peer pressure is always the best

4. Call them up to the start position, ask them to face down range, DO NOT give them the LAMR command and then the RO and scorer step back with the crowd. When they turn around to see what the holdup is explain why they have not been started and ask if they understand why. If they pitch a fit, refund their match fee and tell them not to come back.

I have no mercy on folks who think they don't have to help. If they are allowed to get away with their behavior eventually others will do the same. Nip it in the bud!

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If the squad ahead of you is slacking, then the MD needs to get involved right away. If you have slackers on your own squad, thats easy to fix. When the slacker is up, nobody resets or tapes anything. And being a newbie is no excuse. You want to shoot with my squad you are expected to help out equally. Ok, maybe the younger guys tend to set more steel than the older guys, but overall everyone helps. And some people are better at scoring than others, but still everyone helps.

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Not that it's a good excuse, but do these people know it's a volunteer sport? I was driving home after my first match before I realized I was the only guy standing around looking confused and overwhelmed between shooters instead of running downrange and helping. At no point did anyone explain that aspect of the sport to me. And believe it or not, some people can be completely oblivious to the fact there's work needing to be done unless you remind them every time. Kind of like when I'm installing a door at work and some schmuck is standing in the doorway so wrapped up in his one sided conversation with me that he doesn't realize I've just slammed the door in his face 3 times because he's in my way. Some people are just wired to ignore work...

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I normally say something like "Hey, we all paid the same amount to shoot today. Nobody paid extra to stand around so why don't you get out here and tape and set steel?". Normally just out loud to everyone.

If it is really bad and I turn around and look and see I'm the only one down range I will say something much louder and less nice. But none of this applies to running up on a squad in front of you that is horrible about helping.

Normally I guess I just sit back and consider it a break period. It's their squad not mine. I'll just take note of who is not helping so I can avoid squadding with them next time. I don't want some other squad in my business so I stay out of theirs. Unless I see someone really is surrounded by 10 new people who are clueless and they are struggling. I've been the only person on a squad who has shot a match before with 8 other first day people. When you don't ask for that or aren't prepared for it, it is very very trying.

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Not that it's a good excuse, but do these people know it's a volunteer sport? I was driving home after my first match before I realized I was the only guy standing around looking confused and overwhelmed between shooters instead of running downrange and helping. At no point did anyone explain that aspect of the sport to me. And believe it or not, some people can be completely oblivious to the fact there's work needing to be done unless you remind them every time. Kind of like when I'm installing a door at work and some schmuck is standing in the doorway so wrapped up in his one sided conversation with me that he doesn't realize I've just slammed the door in his face 3 times because he's in my way. Some people are just wired to ignore work...

I found this to be a very interesting post. Does USPSA have a new shooter information packet that explains how a typical match is supposed to work? I wrote a "First Match" document a few years ago, if USPSA does not have one then perhaps it's something that could be considered. When a person joins USPSA we could include it in the new members packet and/or provide hard copies to our affiliated clubs so they could hand them out to new shooters at their first match,... Just a thought.

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It generally has nothing to do with being new. I just ran 20 squads through a state match this weekend and saw the same old people who never lift a finger to help match after match, year after year.

First thing we can cut out right now is blaming it on HQ for not having a packet with info in it that says, " don't stand around and watch others work"

Edited by Sarge
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