CHA-LEE Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Slackers need the whip cracked on them. I don't think there are many shooters who intentionally avoid working at matches, sure there are a few but not many. The majority of shooters fall into the rut of talking with their buddies and become inattentive to how good/bad the stage is running. This is when cracking the whip by the RO's comes in handy to bring their attention back to the task at hand. I have ZERO issues with calling the whole squad out for slacking or individual people for slacking. That is my personality and the shooters who have shot with me fully understand that I have zero issues with getting my point across when needed. Since I have a vested interest in pushing the squads through the stages I am usually the one who is cracking the whip at local matches. I have seen other RO's or Shooters sit back and stew about slackers as they grumble under their breath hoping that others realize what is going on and snap to it. But that rarely works. I state the facts as I see it loudly when the squad starts to become delinquent. "STOP YAPPING WITH YOUR BUDDIES AND GET TO WORK!!!" usually works pretty good while I am at the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterthefish Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Shot a falling steel match this weekend. Most of the guys on my squad were buddies from some semi-local club, and few went to set steel more than once or twice per stage. I was usually running and setting steel 75% of the time even though my back was killing me. The last two stages it started raining pretty heavily - it really hit me when I came back under the cover after resetting a stage solo and realized 3 -4 folks were completely dry. I almost lost it when one of them started taking video of folks resetting (while under rain cover, of course). Instead of losing my temper (which I'd done earlier with another dumbo on the squad) I just stopped resetting for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 It's probably worth noting that there are more likely to be un-reset targets when there are people sitting on their butts. This is particularly true on longer field courses because the people who are doing the work get tired and start missing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leftylivesmatter Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 This is becoming a huge problem, especially at big matches with international shooters who don't paste in their home country! RO's and MD's don't have any recourse per current USPSA rules. We need to have the unsportsmanlike conduct rule to include shooters who are unwilling to help paste and reset. This also adds to the attitude of many local shooters who think the "stage Santa" just drops off the compete stages every month and there is no need to show up early and help set up or tear down. Of course many of them have plenty of time to show up early to walk the stages???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Health issues that allow them to shoot, but not paste? Ok.... As an RO at our club, we allow for a little socialization. Not everyone has to post every time. Peer pressure usually does it, or a quick chat with those that don't to remind them of unsportsmanlike conduct and the penalty they just received for the last stage usually wakes them up. I design and build stages, run shooters, do registration and scores. If I can paste targets, so can shooters. Most of the guys I've known with health issues work pretty good. Though I've told a few of the older guys, now I'm getting there?!, to take it easy,don't want to do any cpr ya know. Yet they still do something productive. You have to be sure they aren't helping and then just put them at the bottom of the list. No work, don't run them. But you better tell the RM/MD first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES13Raven Posted June 11, 2015 Author Share Posted June 11, 2015 IDPA has a nifty little rule to address it. If the SO/RO wants to really push it they can DQ someone for not helping, but it doesn't say how much you have to help I'm glad IDPA spells it out in their Rule Book: 3.19.10 I understand it is my duty to help reset stages between shooters unless I am the current shooter, the on-deck shooter or have just finished shooting, unless instructed otherwise by an SO. 3.19.15 I understand that violations of these responsibilities and code of conduct will result in my Disqualification from a match, and may result in the revocation of my IDPA membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 IDPA has a nifty little rule to address it. If the SO/RO wants to really push it they can DQ someone for not helping, but it doesn't say how much you have to help I'm glad IDPA spells it out in their Rule Book: 3.19.10 I understand it is my duty to help reset stages between shooters unless I am the current shooter, the on-deck shooter or have just finished shooting, unless instructed otherwise by an SO. 3.19.15 I understand that violations of these responsibilities and code of conduct will result in my Disqualification from a match, and may result in the revocation of my IDPA membership. Now that's a part of IDPA we could get used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 It doesn't help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 It doesn't help Only if it is ignored by the powers that be which will happen if the shooters ignore it and not force said powers that be to enforce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 in your situation if the RO doesn't or won't say anything I simple inform them that I'm stopping resetting the stage "just like everyone else" and go sit down to see what happens .... I never schedule anything for the couple of hrs after a match is supposed to end so I'm in no hurry ... never actually seen this behavior at a match in over 3 yrs of shooting them so I really can't imagine how fustrating it must be but I can tell you I wouldn't tolerate this behavior for more than a single stage .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racknrider Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Ever heard of someone getting DQ'd for not pasting at an IDPA match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Ever heard of someone getting DQ'd for not pasting at an IDPA match? Don't shoot IDPA myself, but if it doesn't (or seldom) happen, perhaps it's because they clearly set it out as an expectation, and enough participants honor it that it isn't too much of a problem? Many of the above posts seem to be saying that participation isn't clearly announced or vocally expected at their clubs, so maybe we need to make a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Lead by example Not by how awesome a GM you are. Clear expectations, leading from the front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) They have a great system at Rio for Tuesday Night Steel where the person who is ROing with the clipboard calls out on deck and in the hole and then lists off the next 5 or 6 shooters by job ; tapers, reset steel, pick up brass, etc. Edited June 21, 2015 by warpspeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES13Raven Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 They have a great system at Rio for Tuesday Night Steel where the person who is ROing with the clipboard calls out on deck and in the hole and then lists off the next 5 or 6 shooters by job ; tapers, reset steel, pick up brass, etc. The problem I see with that method, is that it would take longer to tape 14+ targets with 2-3 shooters, than it would with 10+ shooters. Faster overall if most shooters help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 They have a great system at Rio for Tuesday Night Steel where the person who is ROing with the clipboard calls out on deck and in the hole and then lists off the next 5 or 6 shooters by job ; tapers, reset steel, pick up brass, etc. The problem I see with that method, is that it would take longer to tape 14+ targets with 2-3 shooters, than it would with 10+ shooters. Faster overall if most shooters help. So the RO just assigns 5 guys to tape Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJE Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 They have a great system at Rio for Tuesday Night Steel where the person who is ROing with the clipboard calls out on deck and in the hole and then lists off the next 5 or 6 shooters by job ; tapers, reset steel, pick up brass, etc. The problem I see with that method, is that it would take longer to tape 14+ targets with 2-3 shooters, than it would with 10+ shooters. Faster overall if most shooters help. One or two guys (on a rotating basis) getting assigned to pasting a whole stage seems way more efficient than most of the squad walking downrange and pasting one or two targets each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 If you need to assign shooters specific tasks in order to get them to work then you are shooting with a bunch of inconsiderate dead beats. Everyone knows how it should work. If the work isn't getting done then the dead beats need to be called out and the whip cracked. If the offending shooters continue to be slackers then it may require a more direct "one on one" discussion with them to make it clear that this is a volunteer sport and everyone needs to pitch in to make it happen. If that still does not work then the MD can put all of the dead beats on the same squad and they can have fun sitting around looking at each other until they realize that nobody else is going to do the work for them. If shooters are allowed to get away with slacking then it will continue to happen. If you don't allow shooters to slack off then it's not a congenital problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJE Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 If you need to assign shooters specific tasks in order to get them to work then you are shooting with a bunch of inconsiderate dead beats. That's not what I meant. I was listening to a podcast that talked about shooting overseas... you shoot, you paste for the next two shooters, and you're done until the next stage. Seems way better than 10 or 12 people walking out to a stage to paste 16 targets for every shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES13Raven Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Seems way better than 10 or 12 people walking out to a stage to paste 16 targets for every shooter. It is the quickest and most efficient way to reset stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Seems way better than 10 or 12 people walking out to a stage to paste 16 targets for every shooter. It is the quickest and most efficient way to reset stages. No it's not. The quickest and most efficient way to paste 16 targets is to get two people who know to use a box of posters as a dispenser, and have them follow the RO around as he scores. They'll be done seconds after he finishes. Of course that means you might need a few people to set steel or movers, close windows or doors, etc. The only thing faster is when we start with multiple people scoring and taping simultaneously at a Level 1 -- our squad can accomplish very quick resets, because we have a bunch of experienced ROs/CROs/MDs on it. The timer and practiscore ROs and shooter start on one side and score with tapers following behind. At the same time a couple of us start on the other side and tape all unambiguous hits, while keeping the score in our brain until the practiscore RO is ready for us to call it out..... Misses and anything near a line gets left in case there's a challenge.... But honestly -- boxes of posters used correctly are the cat's meow for pasting a stage. The trick is to load all four finger tips, and to reload as you're walking from target to target.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Could not agree more. Have shot and RO'd many stages where the paster boxes are torn open so more people can tear off a strip of pasters and slowly pull off each paster. The box is made so it is a dispenser and it is very fast if you use it correctly. Designate a few people to do pasting and keep the dispensers intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ES13Raven Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Out here all the clubs use tape. I've tried pasters and they don't work as well as tape. Tape is better because shooters can take several strips and put them on their leg or wherever and tear off pieces as needed. Being able to tear off a bigger or smaller piece is nice depending on the holes in the cardboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent1k1 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 First of all, I hate tape. 2nd, I think this thread started less about how to actually 'repair' the targets and more about how to get people that don't do anything to.....do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent1k1 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Unless you have white and black tape, it looks terrible and is a dis-service to the next guy who is looking at the strange color on a penalty or non-scoring target, drawing their eye to it. One of the local clubs here doesn't buy black or white pasters and it is a source of complaining for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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