It's Official: Compact Carry Pistol (CCP) Division

[alma]

Guess it's time to raise the price and list my CZ Compact L as for sale in the classifieds.

[newmexicocrawler]

my .02

I think it is fairly goofy if they limit the gun to 8 rounds. Yes i understand that the S&W Shield is only 8 or 7 rounds but I feel the division was more geared towards exactly what it says. a Compact pistol. Such as the G19 and smaller or the XD-Compacts or S&W Compacts. Keep it the generally same rules as the SSP just with smaller guns.

If Glock would come out with a 9mm Single stack striker fired then maybe a new division should be put developed for those types of guns. You want to shoot a Shield then you just have to take the hit and only shoot 8 rounds. Sorry its just impossible to make everyone happy.

Also, can someone cite a source where we may have magwells on a G19 size gun or is it just speculation at this point? I reread the IDPA email but didn't extract that from the passage.

I get it from this line......" The division is based on ESP but the guns "........

[motosapiens]

I'm thinking Glock 19 with grip reduction and grip job, Vanek trigger, Waren sights, competition springs, Ti striker and the small plastic magwell you can get from the Glock Store. That'd be my CCP gun.

but it wouldn't be any better at shooting than a p01.

[dmcclary]

I have owned a HK P7M8 for twenty years. i started shooting IDPA with it in 1999 but felt at a disadvantage due to 8 round mags. I think it will be a great gun for CCP since there is an 8 round limit. It is reliable, accurate, has a decent trigger from the factory and appears to meet the size requirements.

[rowdyb]

but i own glock 19's, i don't own any small CZ's.... haha. though i am pretty familiar with the platform.

[brianr34]

One potential negative of P01 is required DA first shot. PPQ or G19 would be same pull on each shot.

I picked up a CZ75 Shadow Custom and since I am use to striker fired guns, I will shoot the CZ in ESP so I can skip the DA pull.

[tbarker13]

One potential negative of P01 is required DA first shot. PPQ or G19 would be same pull on each shot.

I picked up a CZ75 Shadow Custom and since I am use to striker fired guns, I will shoot the CZ in ESP so I can skip the DA pull.

With enough live and dry fire, that double action first pull just fades away as anything to worry about.

[Dutchman195]

my .02

I think it is fairly goofy if they limit the gun to 8 rounds. Yes i understand that the S&W Shield is only 8 or 7 rounds but I feel the division was more geared towards exactly what it says. a Compact pistol. Such as the G19 and smaller or the XD-Compacts or S&W Compacts. Keep it the generally same rules as the SSP just with smaller guns.

If Glock would come out with a 9mm Single stack striker fired then maybe a new division should be put developed for those types of guns. You want to shoot a Shield then you just have to take the hit and only shoot 8 rounds. Sorry its just impossible to make everyone happy.

Also, can someone cite a source where we may have magwells on a G19 size gun or is it just speculation at this point? I reread the IDPA email but didn't extract that from the passage.

I get it from this line......" The division is based on ESP but the guns "........

True, but they could rule out any or all of the modifications of ESP. IE no magwells but trigger work and stippling is allowed.

[BillR1]

With enough live and dry fire, that double action first pull just fades away as anything to worry about.

This!

[lee blackman]

With enough live and dry fire, that double action first pull just fades away as anything to worry about.

This!

Yea, just the time from buzzer to first shot is a little longer.... If you have a sweetly tuned SA pull from that point forward you can make up for it on your splits over the rest of the stage. I'd play against the timer with a couple different platforms, and see what fits you best. After all, IDPA is a game of time vs accuracy. Split times add up to seconds, and a second can mean the difference between first and not first...

[blind bat]

Maybe I'm missing something but if they are going to use ESP rules, just start off cocked and locked.

[2MoreChains]

Some DA/SA guns do not have a manual safety. CZ's P-01 is a good example. It just has a decocker lever to drop the hammer. No manual safety for cocked and locked.

[motosapiens]

One potential negative of P01 is required DA first shot. PPQ or G19 would be same pull on each shot.

Yeah, if you don't practice, that can be a problem. If you do practice, it's a total non-issue.

[alma]

And just in time for the CCP division SIG has announced that it is releasing a "Carry" sized P320 that has the 3.9 inch barrel of the Compact with a full sized grip accepting the standard 17 round 9mm magazines.

http://www.all4shooters.com/en/specials/trade-shows-2015/SHOT-show-2015/pistols/sig-sauer-p320/

[wingnut]

I have a spo1. I will use my pcr compact now.

[raa29642]

Thinking a Glock 19 would work well. I started in IDPA with this gun before getting a G34. Assume with ESP rules, we could add magwell.

Edited January 21, 2015 by raa29642

[newmexicocrawler]

I don't have a g19 but I do have a g23 with a convertion barrel and I have o plenty of glock go fast parts.....so if they truelly do base it on the ESP then I will be set

I'll set it up just like my pimped out g34 ESP gun and go to town....I'll give up ESP and just shoot this class.

[Akacala]

Sad that we're not getting optics. I'll probably shoot my cz p07, wonder if those new p09 magwells will fit on p07s. Either way, I think I'll be shooting more uspsa than idpa this year, and may let my SO certification drop.

[tootalltrucker]

The 8 round capacity seems clearly to make sure they can include 1911 based compacts, ya think? Otherwise they would have to add another division to accomodate the 1911 folks. And that was probably why optics did not make it, you would have needed an optics division for each class or else listen a lot of moaning from whoever felt left out.

I agree that the bottom of the box is the part that sits on the table. The IDPA box dimesnions say that is the "depth" dimension and therefore that should be the bottom of the box. (But I agree that IDPA could have said "there will be a 1/4" insert in the bottom to make the box dimensions A x B x C, +/-1/16 inch in each dimension". Lord know clubs could not afford to make another box!

Now lets see how many manufacturers come up with new offerings designed for this new class. Sponsors are here to make money and IDPA does cater to the sponsors.

The one question I did not see asked is wahy do they need a 1/4" spacer?? What guns are they trying to prevent from being used? There is obviously a reason why they felt the need to shallow up the box.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I'll probably shoot my cz p07,

That might be too wide.

[motosapiens]

Regardless of the wording, I think interpreting the box change as referring to thickness makes no practical sense at all. Of course that doesn't mean IDPA didn't intend to limit thickness, but in general, 'compact' is used to refer to guns with shorter barrels and grips, not thinner guns.

[GOF]

It would be nice if IDPA HQ could find someone who has experience in writing clear & concise Rules that require no guesswork or 'interpretation'. One would think that would be possible..... ......

Maybe someone in Berryville needs to take a 'ego time out' and admit they are in over their heads when it comes to writing clear & concise Rules.

A properly written Rule should require no interpretation -- it should be understood by all.

[blind bat]

Single stack 9mm is the new hotness. To be easily concealed you need a short, thin grip. I wish they'd gone with a 4.25" barrel. Then 9mm commander 1911s would be a perfect fit. Or go with a 3.5" / 7rnd capacity and the Shields, EMPs, and Officers model 1911s would have a nice home.

[tbarker13]

The one question I did not see asked is wahy do they need a 1/4" spacer?? What guns are they trying to prevent from being used? There is obviously a reason why they felt the need to shallow up the box.

That's what I've been wondering. What are they trying to exclude?

I thought it might be something like the CZ P01, but it looks like that will make it in with a 1/4" piece of plywood inside - because, as someone pointed out earlier, 1/4" plywood isn't actually quite that thick.

Maybe it's designed to exclude wider magwells.

[logiztix]

The one question I did not see asked is wahy do they need a 1/4" spacer?? What guns are they trying to prevent from being used? There is obviously a reason why they felt the need to shallow up the box.

That's what I've been wondering. What are they trying to exclude?

I thought it might be something like the CZ P01, but it looks like that will make it in with a 1/4" piece of plywood inside - because, as someone pointed out earlier, 1/4" plywood isn't actually quite that thick.

Maybe it's designed to exclude wider magwells.

The email blast was likely a poorly worded attempt by its author to paraphrase what may end up being a poorly worded rule book. I wouldn't order anything for CCP until I saw the ACTUAL rule book. For example, a 1/4" piece of plywood is not the same as a piece of 1/4" plywood. Insane? Yes. True? Also, yes.

What will be really fun will be watching clubs stuff a fitted piece of plywood into the bottom of their box and watching them not be able to get it out to measure anything else.