BillR1 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I like that they actually listened to the membership. CCP will be alot of fun! I'll be shooting my Apex'd M&P 9c...for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 If they're reducing the overall height of the gun, what do you think "bottom of the box" means? With the introduction of CCP, BUG is also being revamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I like the idea. Sure these guns could shoot in other divisions - but they aren't really competitive in those divisions. We can talk about it being "the indian and not the arrow," but there is a reason the top shooters use full size guns with 5" or longer barrels. So now we have a division at monthly matches where people can use more realistic carry guns against other shooters with the same handicap - barrel length, etc. And yes, of course, we know that some people use full size 1911s, 2011s and Glock 34s as their carry guns. But they are the exception, rather than the rule. Personally, I'll be planning to shoot a CZP01 (assuming it isn't outlawed somehow) which will also be my daily carry gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I like the idea. Sure these guns could shoot in other divisions - but they aren't really competitive in those divisions. We can talk about it being "the indian and not the arrow," but there is a reason the top shooters use full size guns with 5" or longer barrels. So now we have a division at monthly matches where people can use more realistic carry guns against other shooters with the same handicap - barrel length, etc. And yes, of course, we know that some people use full size 1911s, 2011s and Glock 34s as their carry guns. But they are the exception, rather than the rule. Personally, I'll be planning to shoot a CZP01 (assuming it isn't outlawed somehow) which will also be my daily carry gun. I also like the idea, it seems it brings back the intentions of what IDPA was supposed to be. I would like to see this basically become the new SSP division and everything else goes to ESP / CDP, as long as it makes weight and fits the box, it's legal. As far as the CZ P-01, it would be a good one. That will depend on where this 1/4" spacer is placed, the CZ may be just a little to thick. We will find out soon enough. Another note, 1/4" plywood isn't necessarily 1/4"... it varies with manufacturers. I wish they would just give the dimension of the "new" box, and build it to that dimension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'm predicting compact CZ's will rule the division. CCP will be as much about "carry" guns as SSP is about "stock" pistols. What a joke. I would certainly shoot a compact cz, but that's what I actually carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Great, we get another division for guns that could already be used in the existing divisions. Wedge this in between bug and current ESP/SSP guns....stupid!!! IDPA had an opportunity to include red dot carry optics which would have brought interest from current USPSA shooters and helped older shooters with their visual issues. So what we got was a lot of over the hill shooters who do not understand optics complaining about something new. Instead we got a division that is completely unnecessary to the sport because these guns were already legal. IDPA blew a chance to get into the future of sighting systems and chose instead to further breakup the competition divisions into minute sections. I've had it with IDPA. There are things I don't like about USPSA, but it seems my only option for the future. Good bye IDPA! I don't think iDPA has a bright future or a very long one. Couldn't have said it better myself... Seriously, it never fails, IDPA disappoints me every time... I mean really... was it worth getting rid of ESR for this... what a joke... but on the plus side, like I stated earlier. 5 Division Master just got a whole division easier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I also like the idea, it seems it brings back the intentions of what IDPA was supposed to be. Exactly! Kudos to IDPA for making the right choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 The new rulebook will state the new BUG dimensions as well as the CCP. That should clear up any confusion as to what will or will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Wow! Only in IDPA could people not be able to find the bottom of a box. Place any box in the world that has a lid on it on a table with the lid facing up, the bottom is what is resting on the table. IDPA will always be a mess if something this simple can not be understood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmexicocrawler Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 So......the way I'm figuring is I can use my G23 converted to 9 with a magwell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordfan485 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) So......the way I'm figuring is I can use my G23 converted to 9 with a magwell maybe, your magwell might be too wide for the new box. It will need to be 1-3/8 wide or less Edited January 20, 2015 by Fordfan485 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 If they're reducing the overall height of the gun, what do you think "bottom of the box" means? With the introduction of CCP, BUG is also being revamped. Generally "bottom" would mean the part of the box resting on the table. That would have an impact on the thickness of the gun, not the overall height. Was the intent to make the guns single stack thickness or to shorten the grip/magazine length? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) This will be interesting regarding the CZ P01. The box, minus 1/4", should come out at 1.375" According to CZUSA, the P01 is 1.38" wide. ESP does allow for "carry melt treatments." So maybe it will be possible to melt away .005" to make a P01 fit the box. Edited January 20, 2015 by tbarker13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOAFS Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I like the idea. Sure these guns could shoot in other divisions - but they aren't really competitive in those divisions. We can talk about it being "the indian and not the arrow," but there is a reason the top shooters use full size guns with 5" or longer barrels. So now we have a division at monthly matches where people can use more realistic carry guns against other shooters with the same handicap - barrel length, etc. And yes, of course, we know that some people use full size 1911s, 2011s and Glock 34s as their carry guns. But they are the exception, rather than the rule. Personally, I'll be planning to shoot a CZP01 (assuming it isn't outlawed somehow) which will also be my daily carry gun. I couldn't agree more, THANKS IDPA for giving me a class to be competitive with my shield. I just shoot local matches but I am the guy most guys at the matches point and snicker at. I've been shooting ESP (I stippled my frame)with a Shield, RCS gear and a flannel shirt, or IWB in hot weather. I realize I'm not Bob Vogel and I use the matches to give me more practice and time with my carry gun, kinda what IDPA was supposed to be I guess. On the other side of that everyone has different goals as to what they want out of their match, such as winning at all costs, whether it be the money spent on equipment or push every rule to the absolute limit. With the popularity of the xd's and shield, I think IDPA did the right thing.... with reading the posts in this thread I maybe the minority though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I couldn't agree more, THANKS IDPA for giving me a class to be competitive with my shield. I just shoot local matches but I am the guy most guys at the matches point and snicker at. I've been shooting ESP (I stippled my frame)with a Shield, RCS gear and a flannel shirt, or IWB in hot weather. I realize I'm not Bob Vogel and I use the matches to give me more practice and time with my carry gun, kinda what IDPA was supposed to be I guess. On the other side of that everyone has different goals as to what they want out of their match, such as winning at all costs, whether it be the money spent on equipment or push every rule to the absolute limit. With the popularity of the xd's and shield, I think IDPA did the right thing.... with reading the posts in this thread I maybe the minority though. You may be in the minority here in this thread. But I suspect you would not be in the minority when it comes to the typical IDPA shooter. I'm no defender of IDPA. I lost most of my respect for the organization watching the way they handled their rule changes/interpretations over the past year. But I'll admit this new division will give me something to try out at the few local matches I do shoot this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 This new division should be popular. I wish they had pegged the barrel length at less than 4 inches... but given all the stupid stuff IDPA has done in the last year, this isn't quite so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2MoreChains Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I couldn't agree more, THANKS IDPA for giving me a class to be competitive with my shield. I just shoot local matches but I am the guy most guys at the matches point and snicker at. I've been shooting ESP (I stippled my frame)with a Shield, RCS gear and a flannel shirt, or IWB in hot weather. I realize I'm not Bob Vogel and I use the matches to give me more practice and time with my carry gun, kinda what IDPA was supposed to be I guess. On the other side of that everyone has different goals as to what they want out of their match, such as winning at all costs, whether it be the money spent on equipment or push every rule to the absolute limit. With the popularity of the xd's and shield, I think IDPA did the right thing.... with reading the posts in this thread I maybe the minority though. You may be in the minority here in this thread. But I suspect you would not be in the minority when it comes to the typical IDPA shooter. I'm no defender of IDPA. I lost most of my respect for the organization watching the way they handled their rule changes/interpretations over the past year. But I'll admit this new division will give me something to try out at the few local matches I do shoot this year. My guess is CCP spec'd 4.1" max barrel length because the Glock 19 has a 4.01" long barrel. Anybody want to speculate if the max thickness of CCP may also have something to do with Glock 19 dimensions...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 For those of you that are measuring guns: 1/4 inch plywood is really only 7/32 inch thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 If I wanted to measure the height of something like a gun, I would start at the bottom and measure to the top. Incidentally, this is how ALL gun manufacturers state their dimensions. IDPA clearly refers to the bottom of magazine to top of sights dimension of their box as the 'height' measurement in the rule book. All good so far. Then we get a new 1/4" to be inserted into the 'bottom'of said box. We can each assume we know what IDPA means, but once again there's that pesky matter of what they actually wrote. This is why the interpretation is running in both directions. Those that understand how a box typically works conflict with those that know what the IDPA rule book actually says. The dimensions of IDPA's compliance box SHOULD be labeled in the same manner as the item being measured, aligning with how the INDUSTRY actually measures the object being measured. That seems like a pretty basic thing to get right before everyone starts shopping for a new gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logiztix Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) For those of you that are measuring guns: 1/4 inch plywood is really only 7/32 inch thick. I wasn't even going to mention that, or the fact that the IDPA Clarifications says 'feel free to add 1/8" to all dimensions and consider your box legal'. Edited January 20, 2015 by logiztix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarker13 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 For those of you that are measuring guns: 1/4 inch plywood is really only 7/32 inch thick. I wonder if IDPA HQ knows this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman195 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 my .02 I think it is fairly goofy if they limit the gun to 8 rounds. Yes i understand that the S&W Shield is only 8 or 7 rounds but I feel the division was more geared towards exactly what it says. a Compact pistol. Such as the G19 and smaller or the XD-Compacts or S&W Compacts. Keep it the generally same rules as the SSP just with smaller guns. If Glock would come out with a 9mm Single stack striker fired then maybe a new division should be put developed for those types of guns. You want to shoot a Shield then you just have to take the hit and only shoot 8 rounds. Sorry its just impossible to make everyone happy. Also, can someone cite a source where we may have magwells on a G19 size gun or is it just speculation at this point? I reread the IDPA email but didn't extract that from the passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianr34 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I am thinking a PPQ will be awesome for this new division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm thinking Glock 19 with grip reduction and grip job, Vanek trigger, Waren sights, competition springs, Ti striker and the small plastic magwell you can get from the Glock Store. That'd be my CCP gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianr34 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 OK Rowdyb, I like your option. I was keeping it simple with a stock PPQ, but I am a fan of Glocks and like your proposed setup. My plan is to shoot my new 75 Shadow Custom in ESP this year, but the CCP class interests me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now