2015 Brownells Rockcastle Pro Am 3 Gun Chamiopship - Official

[jsjohannes]

Incorrect- Team Samson was at the bays as scheduled for our clinic at 6pm on Saturday. Sign ups for the clinics were posted on the glass next to the main entrance door to the lodge lobby.

Re-read, statement is qualified appropriately. I won't repeat myself.

Wish I had known or read about Jordan/Thacker/Samson. Glad they happened, good on them! Anyone else need to be mentioned?

[Jesse Tischauser]

I heard that even some of Pro Clinics didn't happen. Sad to see that it is slipping a bit.

Mine was cancelled after they checked my credentials.

Plus the only person signed up was Dillen TooEasley.

Wrong all around Jesse. Some of the disappointed shooters who had signed up for your clinic went over to join the Jordan/Thacker clinic that was being held a few bays away. Some were simply disappointed and expressed that to me & to RM Joe Harris. The staff at Rockcastle & the staff of the match had no notice that you were not going to be at your clinic. Late that evening, when I had time to browse internet stuff, I saw that you announced you were cancelling on this forum during the afternoon. Not sure who you thought was monitoring social media or gun forums during the match.

Disappointed does not begin to cover it for me.

I messaged Nick Noble via Text (which was the same means of him communicating with me asking me to teach a class three days prior to the class) at or before 3:00pm when our squad finished shooting for the day. At that point I realized I wasn't going to let me wife sit at the hotel another 4 hours waiting for me to teach a free clinic. I posted on this forum and my Facebook that I wouldn't be there. If there was some other way of communicating with the owner of the match and/or the shooters at the match I'd love to hear it. My post about teaching a class and about canceling said class was exactly two post more then I'd seen about any class prior to. Communication at the match and about the ever changing schedule and events that were or weren't happening other then the emails you sent us pertaining to registration was lackluster at best.

If you want dissapointed you should have paid $1500 to travel to and shoot this train wreck of a match. Plus I'll forward you the nasty gram I received from Nate Noble Friday night. Heck if yall like I'll share it here or via PM. That's disappointing!

Needless to say I'll never shoot the ProAm again or set foot on Rockcastke shooting center again after the way I was treated as a customer.

BTW I checked at noon and there were only 5-6 shooters signed up for my class. If they ended up taking a class from Tommy and Greg then I did them an even bigger favor by canceling my clinic 3 hours early.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[kurtm]

Whoooo, I didn't mean to kick any rocks at anyone. I just heard they didn't have them this year from an amigo of mine. I guess he didn't see the sign up sheets.

[babob]

So, who is the new sponsor for 2016 going to be? I believe there was supposed to be an announcement of a new main sponsor for the match in 2016 and it was gonna blow our socks off. Well???

[OPENB]

It'll be on the website 3 days before the match.

[USCSBarney]

Still haven't seen what happened to the side matches? We tried to go to two of them and didn't even see where they mowed for them.

That said the staff were excellent, well for the most part. We got "stuck" at AM 2 for hours on Friday waiting but managed to reset fast and got them back to only 45 minutes behind (28 seconds to score and reset). Relief staff shows up with about 4 shooters left and one "RO" about got his teeth fed to him with his attitude. i did get the distinct impression that the organization was off this year. Hearing yelling and screaming in the lodge between staff was a tale tale.

All of that said, it was a fun match and was great seeing old friends. My draw at the table was darn near last but the beer truck made up for it. Was on the best squad that shared the load and helped one another which is the reason I might come back next year. They made it fun and enjoyable.

Edited August 25, 2015 by USCSBarney

[Vespid_Wasp]

2. Start position in Pro #4 ( Sling It) was a joke. Sling around neck, magazine in hand ready to load. This irritated me because it made the sling requirement a technicality instead of testing a shooters sling/rifle manipulation skill on the clock. Specifying hands relaxed at sides rifle slung would have been perfect.

Rant complete. I can't wait to shoot this match again next year!

The idea with that stage was it was shooters decision whether or not to begin with the pistol. Because the stage description did not give a more detailed clarification for 'slung' we told every shooter what was acceptable per the range masters directions. We were trying to be as fair as possible.

The stage designer expected more people to start with handgun.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Vespid_Wasp

[SonOfSpartans]

Still haven't seen what happened to the side matches? We tried to go to two of them and didn't even see where they mowed for them.

That said the staff were excellent, well for the most part. We got "stuck" at AM 2 for hours on Friday waiting but managed to reset fast and got them back to only 45 minutes behind (28 seconds to score and reset). Relief staff shows up with about 4 shooters left and one "RO" about got his teeth fed to him with his attitude. i did get the distinct impression that the organization was off this year. Hearing yelling and screaming in the lodge between staff was a tale tale.

All of that said, it was a fun match and was great seeing old friends. My draw at the table was darn near last but the beer truck made up for it. Was on the best squad that shared the load and helped one another which is the reason I might come back next year. They made it fun and enjoyable.

Yes, the extra TO that thought he was doing us a favor was comical in hindsight. I'm pretty sure he got the message.

The squad made the match for sure. Having that stage thrown out after beating our way through it was a kick in the junk.

That delay cost me the opportunity to attend the pro clinic, too.

I had fun. Last year was my first year. This year was......less. I will state what I have not read yet. The last couple years industry sales were off the charts. The last year saw a correction that was large from what I read. Vendors are not cash machines for a small group of shooters. When times are leaner they have to make choices and I hope they do. That way I can keep getting their product instead of them shutting down. The best thing we can do it's keep shooting, supporting good matches and bringing new shooters out to join us.

On the NRA, remember they are the title sponsor of a big match next month. Choices? Probably

Thanks to the match staff. Thanks to the vendors that were there and the sponsors that supported us.

[racershooter]

This match was a major disappointment. The stages were stale and not very original (AM side). The vendor area was very thin compared to years past. I would venture that the shitty economy had something to do with this. The dinner is usually free but ended up being 10 dollars for a pretty decent meal. I was also very surprised on Saturday night that they had decided to throw out stage 2. I spent several hours waiting to shoot this stage and watched 2 full squads run this stage. The main RO on this stage was an a_-hole and treated several people poorly. I blame this guy for the issue because they allowed people to game this stage and did not brief it right or issue procedural penalties for shooting thru the barricade. The last complaint I have is that the prize table was pretty thin. I am sure this was due to a lack of sponsorship. I talked two of my friends into spending alot of money to shoot this match and they were disappointed that the stages were easier than our club matches.We were highly disappointed that there were no side matches especially the cave shoot , needless to say they were pretty pissed at me. I always looked ahead to this match but I think I will try a different major next year in place of this one.

[Mark R]

This match was a major disappointment. The stages were stale and not very original (AM side)...

...I talked two of my friends into spending alot of money to shoot this match and they were disappointed that the stages were easier than our club matches.

Maybe it's time to shoot the Pro side...just sayin'?

[gunfighteruk]

Iv worked as an RO for three Pro/Ams & have to say I enjoyed the Am stages although any shooting is good coming from a gun starved Country.

Hope the Am's liked the shotgun stage I worked with Kevin ( Am4) we tried to keep it on time

I can understand where people are sounding off over the swag bags , the black/grey NRA bag from a couple of years ago was the best & I still use it as my travel bag.

Improvements for next year ?? how about some shoot areas set up like SHOT show press day where you can try out new guns ?

Not just new guns but match favourites like STi's & the real (male) crowd pleaser would be an appearance from those" babes with machinegun" calendars - bet they would sell a bunch

See you all next year ...... minus snakes.

[Blaster]

As the first guy to nock Rockcastle after the 2ed year I would say printing the radom draw list was nice.Pro Am will be dead in a couple of years

[EkuJustice]

I will say I was not very impressed this year at all. The match was the best the first 2 years they had it and had gone down hill a little every year since and this year just fell of the cliff. First, the website getting posted just before the match was not really a plus but oh well. The Side matches/events. In the past that was a huge draw and stuff people really talked about and looked forward to especially when they had the cave shoots as where else can you do that? That alone was was a big thing people talked about and I know because I was one them when getting others to shoot the event. That was whittled away to there being none at all this year yet they still had them listed on the match. Next the "Sponsored Dinner" listed on the schedule. I guess that was a self sponsored event as you were paying for it vs in the past yet its still called a sponsored dinner. Vendors, very few vendors this year especially compared to what they had in the past. Stages, the stages did not have much variety to them on the AM side and really were not as diverse as they were in the past. In the past there was 1-2 stages that had some distance on them for the rifle, a stage or 2 that was a little more technical and a stage or 2 that was a flat out close drag race how fast can you push it without the wheels falling off where you had better have a good plan, footwork and just push it as it was a fast stage so even a couple seconds made a big difference. This year kinda Bland as over half had the little longer steel tossed in somewhere so the skill set isnt as diverse. The cars, no real need to toss a couple junk cars every year as they really dont serve a purpose especially the one where your just shooting across the inside of the car to shoot 2 targets on the other side. No real benefit unless one thinks its cool to just shoot through the seats glass etc to get a couple hits for the sake of doing it. Prize table has definitely gotten leaner over the years as the first year or 2 there was much more on it even at the end than there was on this one halfway through. I understand if there isnt as much support but still. It was nice having the list posted this year and it did seem to go a lot faster than it did last year by far. Staff, for the most part the staff on the AM side was Very good and there were some that were exceptional, good fair ROs who did a great job getting the stages flowing smoothly and handling issues fairly and professionally. I will say most, as we did run into the vast minority who had ZERO business ROing a stage at all which kinda leaves a sour taste in the mouth. The Plus of the match was getting to shoot with a lot of friends on a good squad where getting the work done fast was not an issue at all as you almost had to fight/race down to get to put some pasters on a target or set a couple pieces of steel up. With the level of the match though as it has been this year and from the downtrend over the years, it really is a hard decision to even consider going to the match again next year after this years match

[BobS761]

I had a good time!

[bpipe95]

It's very refreshing to finally see some real honest experience vocalized here on enos.

I shot the first 3 pro-ams. The first one was great (went the smoothest and had the best stages), the second one was ok, but problems were apparent, and the third caused me to reevaluate how I used my vacation time....

By the third year I was sick of the total mess that is the registration process, the stages started feeling stale and I was completely fed up with finishing at dark, missing the pro clinics then having to rush around just to try and make it to the dinner.

That third year caused me to realize I was going more for the side matches and road trip with friends than I was for the actual match.

As much as I hate to say it, logistically speaking the match is a mess (and seems to get worse every year) and it looks like that really became apparent to the masses this year as "perk" were stripped away.

Before I get torn apart for calling the stages stale. I know that designing this many stages EVERY year is a VERY difficult task, with a match this big they should have some kind of rotating MD or solicit stages from the pros to give it a new feel every year.

As for prizes and NRA involvement, the match started at the peak of the gun boom and when an NRA board member was running for reelection... It should not surprise you that things have thinned out as the industry is now struggling and the board member has been reelected.

I hope they can turn this around, as that first year was awesome! I hope everyone gets to experience a match like that during their shooting career. Personally, I would willing to wade through the awful registration process if Cramblit returned as MD or they went to pros designing stages. this would (for me) make it once again about the shooting the match.

[Bryan 45]

For all the shooters that didn't feel there were enough vendors, and missed shooting side matches that previously had been sponsored by manufacturers, I'd suggest buying a few more of the $550 ARs that are on the market now. Margins are so slow, sales are so weak, across the entire industry, that they need to move some serious inventory to spend the money to send product, demos, and staff to a match for a few days.

Someone mentioned sending a vendor that has previously had a lot of products for sale at the match an email telling them they were missed. I think that's a great idea. Let the manufacturers and dealers that had previously been there but weren't this year know how much they were missed.

[spd522]

Still haven't seen what happened to the side matches? We tried to go to two of them and didn't even see where they mowed for them.

That said the staff were excellent, well for the most part. We got "stuck" at AM 2 for hours on Friday waiting but managed to reset fast and got them back to only 45 minutes behind (28 seconds to score and reset). Relief staff shows up with about 4 shooters left and one "RO" about got his teeth fed to him with his attitude. i did get the distinct impression that the organization was off this year. Hearing yelling and screaming in the lodge between staff was a tale tale.

All of that said, it was a fun match and was great seeing old friends. My draw at the table was darn near last but the beer truck made up for it. Was on the best squad that shared the load and helped one another which is the reason I might come back next year. They made it fun and enjoyable.

LOL! We luckily missed the Dick show. The feeding however would have been long overdue.

[spd522]

The stage still should have stayed. Bunch of complainers. I shot the plate from the far side. Big deal. A couple steps! I still was in the top five on that stage. Everybody worked too hard to have that thrown out. Should've thrown out the complainers. Still was a awesome and fun match. Thanks Gary and all the staff

Agreed. The plate was visible with the pallet intact. Stage said shoot them as visible. It was fair game. It was more a stage setup issue. Had they initially set the plate 6 inches forward or to the left, none of it would be visible except from the far end. I saw guys hose that stage and still went to the far end to engage the plate. With all the delays and work by the ROs, it should have stayed. But the table was random draw so it really didn't matter either way. The junk car was more of a problem for me.

[darkvibe]

For all the shooters that didn't feel there were enough vendors, and missed shooting side matches that previously had been sponsored by manufacturers, I'd suggest buying a few more of the $550 ARs that are on the market now. Margins are so slow, sales are so weak, across the entire industry, that they need to move some serious inventory to spend the money to send product, demos, and staff to a match for a few days.

If the reason was industry cutbacks then we should have been told instead of hyping it up.

These non-existent demos and side matches are STILL shown on the map in the match books which you can download. I could "meet and test products from some of the over sixty firearms related sponsors of the match." according to the Rockcastle Facebook page 2 days before registration, an official information outlet for this match. Nobody ever told us this stuff was not going to happen, even at sign-in. I had to drive around and figure it out on my own.

I would rather have been told that this year would be different so I could make an informed decision.

[steel1212]

I signed up to shoot a match. I got to see the stages on paper. I kne there would be delays between stages so I could get my gear straight. I got to hang out with friends I don't get to see that much. All the other stuff is just fluff. I didn't sign up for a swag bag of made in China stuff, side matches that don't improve my score, or free food. I signed up to compete.

[OPENB]

The point being made is if you feel you received your $250 worth in this match, good on you. If you didn't based on prior experience here & other places, then spend your match $ elsewhere, but let's be honest & call it like it is.

Many signed up to compete.....and shoot side matches, eat, & a bag of Chinese crap. Its more than just a match. I can shoot matches at home for $25.

Edited August 26, 2015 by OPENB

[Jesse Tischauser]

For all the shooters that didn't feel there were enough vendors, and missed shooting side matches that previously had been sponsored by manufacturers, I'd suggest buying a few more of the $550 ARs that are on the market now. Margins are so slow, sales are so weak, across the entire industry, that they need to move some serious inventory to spend the money to send product, demos, and staff to a match for a few days.

If the reason was industry cutbacks then we should have been told instead of hyping it up.

These non-existent demos and side matches are STILL shown on the map in the match books which you can download. I could "meet and test products from some of the over sixty firearms related sponsors of the match." according to the Rockcastle Facebook page 2 days before registration, an official information outlet for this match. Nobody ever told us this stuff was not going to happen, even at sign-in. I had to drive around and figure it out on my own.

I would rather have been told that this year would be different so I could make an informed decision.

Facebook posts also said close to 600 shooters in attendance. It was 435. Rather then bullshit the customers and sponsors in regard how big the match is why not post stuff that pertains like "hey go thank 5.11 for the free beer garden. It starts at 8:00 right after dinner at 6:30." I guy back from dinner had two cases of beer in the car only to see Its everyone eating then a hour later i hear free beer.

It's 2015 for eff sake! I updated my Facebook and Instagram from the port-a-pot on stage 6 Saturday morning before I shot the stage.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Jesse Tischauser

[Lead-Head]

I had a really good time shooting and after the shooting was done for the day. Got to see all of my friends that I only get to see at matches. I thought the stages were pretty much on par with other pro-am matches. 43-94 sec runs for me in pro with only one 5 sec penalty. when you see 100 sec time outs and know the format, this is what I would expect. I liked the stages that pushed the time-out barrier. Seems like every year there is at least one stage with a high disaster factor. I like a lot of steel plates, and those were definitely in the mix. I don't really care too much about food, bags at registration, or vendors. I do like standing in parking lot sipping shine.6th and 18th place finishes on the SG stage for the weakhand loading dinosaurs.

I think Rockcastle will take the constructive criticism and try to improve where they can. Last year one of the major issues was the condition of the targets. This year, almost al of the rifle steel was brand new. If you were so disappointed you had to pay for diner, you got backed up on a stage or two and you didn't get a goodie bag at the door that you will never be back...good luck with your match shopping experience in the future. It is a buyers market right now. It may not always be...

[LChico]

For all the shooters that didn't feel there were enough vendors, and missed shooting side matches that previously had been sponsored by manufacturers, I'd suggest buying a few more of the $550 ARs that are on the market now. Margins are so slow, sales are so weak, across the entire industry, that they need to move some serious inventory to spend the money to send product, demos, and staff to a match for a few days.

If the reason was industry cutbacks then we should have been told instead of hyping it up.

These non-existent demos and side matches are STILL shown on the map in the match books which you can download. I could "meet and test products from some of the over sixty firearms related sponsors of the match." according to the Rockcastle Facebook page 2 days before registration, an official information outlet for this match. Nobody ever told us this stuff was not going to happen, even at sign-in. I had to drive around and figure it out on my own.

I would rather have been told that this year would be different so I could make an informed decision.

No one told you at sign in, because we did not know. Found out there were no demos or side matches late during the day Friday.

[Shooter ready]

For all the shooters that didn't feel there were enough vendors, and missed shooting side matches that previously had been sponsored by manufacturers, I'd suggest buying a few more of the $550 ARs that are on the market now. Margins are so slow, sales are so weak, across the entire industry, that they need to move some serious inventory to spend the money to send product, demos, and staff to a match for a few days.

If the reason was industry cutbacks then we should have been told instead of hyping it up.

These non-existent demos and side matches are STILL shown on the map in the match books which you can download. I could "meet and test products from some of the over sixty firearms related sponsors of the match." according to the Rockcastle Facebook page 2 days before registration, an official information outlet for this match. Nobody ever told us this stuff was not going to happen, even at sign-in. I had to drive around and figure it out on my own.

I would rather have been told that this year would be different so I could make an informed decision.

The point being made is if you feel you received your $250 worth in this match, good on you. If you didn't based on prior experience here & other places, then spend your match $ elsewhere, but let's be honest & call it like it is.

Many signed up to compete.....and shoot side matches, eat, & a bag of Chinese crap. Its more than just a match. I can shoot matches at home for $25.

Like it was said the web site still is full of hype that Rockcastle knew was not going to be there. Looks more like bait and switch than hones mistakes. Whatever the reason for the MD and Staff change, just level with the shooters. Up until the match I was disappointed that I could not get the time off of work. Now I'm damn happy I stayed home. Pro Am has always been "THE" match to shoot for the year. Its not just another match, it is an event that made everyone that attended feel like part of the shooting family. Instead of that weirdo that loves guns.

The ball wasn't just dropped, trust was lost.

If we had heard that this year was going to be a transitional year, people could have made a choice. Instead there is a feeling of betrayal and mistrust. Its going to take a lot of work to get shooters and sponsors to show up next year. Good Luck to everyone! Honestly hope Rockcastle can recover from this.