CZ TS in 40 S&W for Limited v. STI Edge

[Bart Solo]

I have come to the conclusion that I am going to retire my Glock 35. I just don't have the love I need for my plastic fantastic. My first thought was to buy a tuned STI Edge. A couple of weeks ago some of the readers of my previous topic suggested I look seriously at the CZ TS in 40 S&W as a limited pistol instead of the Edge. I can afford either but there is something very attractive about paying about 1/2 for a solid pistol. Beyond price what are the pros and cons of the CZ TS v an STI Edge? Should I just buy one stock and figure out the enhancements I want later?

[CZ85Combat]

For 1 thing the CZ will run. I could not tell you how many times in a match I have seen the others have a malfunction. My son & I both shoot CZ T S in .40 S&W they just run. All you have to do is look around at the matches, at some point in a 6-10 stage match you will see them taping, racking & clearing the jams. This is just what I have seen. YMMV

CZ T S was Was designed for limited division. Out of the box you will have a 2 pound or less trigger. Enhancements you might want to consider. from CZ customs: competition hammer , extended magazine base, extra power Springs and follower, this will allow you to load 20 rounds in the mag and a mag well. Comes with 3 mags so you will want to pick up 2 extras.

[mgardner]

I picked one up a month ago and after I changed the safety to the extended one from CZ Custom I have no complaints. It just runs and shoots fast. Won B-class and came in third overall in Limited Division at the last shoot.

[pivoproseem]

The one thing you will want to probably do if you get thin grips, hack the mag release button down, or you will be dropping mags left and right.

[Neomet]

I bought one of the first CZC shop customized CZs about 7 years ago. It has been stunningly accurate and reliable. Comes with a sub 2lb trigger and with CZC guts 21 round reloadable mags. It is a heavy gun. Some like that, some don't. Big grip which I didn't care for so much. Thin grips and then I took the checkering off the grip which I liked a lot. The other mods I did were just because I like to tinker. It took me from D to A class and it absolutely could take me further if I had the skills.

edited to add I took a grinder to the mag release. No idea why they made that thing so huge. :-)

Edited September 1, 2014 by Neomet

[JayDee]

+1 about the TS feeding, weight and grips. My TS 40 hung up feeding during the first couple magazines, but has been flawless for the last few thousand rounds.

If you are a dyed-in-the-wool 1911 guy, the STI would be more familiar. There are more aftermarket parts and smiths available for 2011s, too.

However, the CZ TS has the best factory trigger I've used and is far more comfortable/natural to grip than a 1911 for me. When I look at what I spent on a TS with 7 tuned mags, I spent about $1000 less than a friend who went STI + 4 mags. For me, being used to CZ pistols in production, it made this the logical step to get into Limited.

[luckyshooter1]

I have run my wifes CZ TS 40. the gun is quick running and accurate. reliable as any other on the market. I is not picky with ammo it runs. The cost savings is nice as well. So good luck with your decision. If you have not shot one see if you can find someone in your area shooting one. Most will let you try their's.

[motosapiens]

It sort of depends on what kind of person you are. The custom S_I guns are pretty cool if you're into jewelry or italian motorcycles, but I ride austrian motorcycles and only wear a wedding ring. I like stuff that works, and I've been shooting CZ's in production for a couple years, so for me buying a TS was a no-brainer. I've only had it a couple weeks, but in initial testing and practice I'm very very happy with it.

[smoothdraw]

i have a Limcat Wildcat 40cal built that i sold in favor of TS 40..... The worst thing that i did in my gun hobby life.... i have EDGE too in 40 and 9mm and just sold them last Christmas in favor of CZ platform. Anyway i shoot CZ exclusively now and i'm fine :-) In 40 i will lean on 2011, for 9mm i will lean on CZ unless its SVI. But SV is $$$ CZ is a cheaper platform and they are accurate and low maintenance.

Edited September 3, 2014 by smoothdraw

[Gdub]

After shooting my new CZC SP01 my next purchase will be the CZ TS in 40 S&W. Man they are great shooting guns.

[spraynpray]

I have a Tac Sport in 40 that I have been shooting for the past two years. It has been a great gun and I have ridden it up to my current "A" classification in Limited. That said, I am currently building an STI in 40 from the ground up. Which one I will stick with long-term has yet to be decided.

[Carlos]

STI vs. 40 TS:

I have both. A few thoughts:

-IMHO, an STI will need work to run reliably.

STI charges $2180.00 for an STI Edge. After that, the guns usually need to go to a specialized gunsmith for "tuning." The magazines will also require tuning and periodic re-tuning (Grams is the place for that).

The trigger/sear of any 1911 wears over time. Sometimes a new leaf spring restored reliability. Sometimes the sear and/or hammer needs work. It requires a skilled, experienced gunsmith to properly restore the trigger to safe/reliable function.

Besides tuning/smithing costs, the 2011s run best (IMHO) on 40 loaded much longer than the industry max of 1.169" This fact is irrelevant to most of us since we reload anyway.

-CZs run reliably right out of the box. I've owned 2 of the TS predecessor - the Standard IPSC. No tuning needed to run. No break in. They just run. The factory mags run too. Right from CZ.

They are test fired with factory-length ammunition and run great on such ammo.

The triggers on both my guns and a friend's TS all measure exactly 2 lbs when new and they settled in at 1.75 lbs. All three of them. I've never, ever had a CZ "follow" or double.

They are heavy. Full-length dust covers are not in vogue the way they once were; the factory CZ TS has a lot of weight out front. Whether it is a benefit or detractor is really a matter of personal taste/style. I guess it made more sense back when PF was 175+.

I am a fan of the CZs.

Yes - 2011s from STI, SV and SPS shoot very well when they work. Great and popular competition guns - thats indisputable. But I believe that 75s - especially the match 75s from CZ, can equal the 2011s, and they certainly won't hold you back. They do, however, cost a lot less.

[Ross Carter]

In my experience the 40 STI type pistols I own are some of the absolute most reliable. I think a large percentage of the problems you see with them at matches is due to modifications to get an extra round or two in the magazine. I've usually been conservative in that area and would rather go with a round less but knowing there are extremely high odds the pistol will be 100%.

To the original question it gets down to personal preference as it does most of the time. For me the CZ feels a little more violent and the STI softer when loaded to major.

[kneelingatlas]

In my experience the 40 STI type pistols I own are some of the absolute most reliable. I think a large percentage of the problems you see with them at matches is due to modifications to get an extra round or two in the magazine. I've usually been conservative in that area and would rather go with a round less but knowing there are extremely high odds the pistol will be 100%.

The nice thing about the TS is you can buy a base pad, spring and follower from CZC, it fits 21 reloadable right out of the gate, fits in the gauge and runs like a top with no fuss (at half the price too!)

The only downside (besides the cheesy checkering on the frame) is the pickyness with OAL and bullet profile.

ETA: one of my older mags fits 22 reloadable

Edited September 30, 2014 by kneelingatlas

[Iceman2733]

Weight wise which is heavier? I am looking at getting back into limited and these are the two i am debating between. I know the edge bull barrel def puts some weight out front

[kneelingatlas]

Edge is 37.6oz on STI's site and TS is 41.9oz on my scale (45.3oz on CZ USA?)

The difference is all in the grip.

[KOBGT]

The slide on the TS is way heavier than a 2011

[KOBGT]

At least the ones I have weighed

[Roundguy]

Just tossing this out there. I shoot an Edge for a couple years now was thinking about going with the TS this year. I looked around for a TS for about a month did some searches on the web and could not find one in stock anywhere at that time. Looks like there are a few places to go to get parts and aftermarket goodies. STI's have tons of aftermarket support was kinda expecting the same for the CZ but was let down a little by the fact i could not find any in stock and that there only seems to be 2-3 places that even carry parts. One thing i will say is Mags are way cheaper for the CZ over the STI and looks like the aftermarket parts i did find for the CZ seem very on par with the STI in price.

[Stuck in C]

I had a completely different experience with my CZ IPSC Standard (older version of the TS). It won't feed period with either the 16 round IPSC Standard mags or the newer 17 round TS mags (I have 5 of each). Or the same mags with the CZC extended base pads or TF pads. I've tried all kinds of spring and follower combinations (CZ, Grams, CZC) and nothing works. Bullet profile doesn't seem to matter either. The trigger is fantastic and I like the weight. The grip needs the checkering removed. I'm at the point where I either get rid of it cheap since it doesn't run, or send it and the mags to a CZ gunsmith to figure out why it doesn't run and to do the grip. Which will probably make it as expensive as a 2011.

[kneelingatlas]

I had a completely different experience with my CZ IPSC Standard (older version of the TS). It won't feed period with either the 16 round IPSC Standard mags or the newer 17 round TS mags (I have 5 of each). Or the same mags with the CZC extended base pads or TF pads. I've tried all kinds of spring and follower combinations (CZ, Grams, CZC) and nothing works. Bullet profile doesn't seem to matter either. The trigger is fantastic and I like the weight. The grip needs the checkering removed. I'm at the point where I either get rid of it cheap since it doesn't run, or send it and the mags to a CZ gunsmith to figure out why it doesn't run and to do the grip. Which will probably make it as expensive as a 2011.

Are you using recoil buffers? What do the FTF look like?

[zzt]

Bart, I recently faced the same decision you are. I love 1911 pattern pistols, so I thought the 2011 type would be my first choice. I shot them and I love them. Iwas going to build one, but I 'm in the middle of a 1911 build and didn't want to start another project. I shot several TS at the club, in both 9mm and 40 S&W and an older IPSC model in 9mm. I liked them too.

I didn't want to wait, so I ordered a 40 TS from the CZ Custom shop. Trigger was a tad over 2lbs with a touch of creep. The pistol was tight, and didn't loosen up until I had 500 or so rounds through it. I added a fiber front sight, a steel guide rod and thin grips. I ordered the extended base pads to get mag capacity up to 20 rounds. 17 round mags don't get it done, so if you order the pistol from the Custom shop, be sure to tell them you want the extended base pads and have them install them and test. They will swap things out until they work. Don't ask how I know to do this. Buy your extra mags at the same time and have them do the same.

Loaded to 1.126" everything from 155gr to 180gr in SWC or TC, jacketed or lead feed flawlessly and cycle with a 13lb spring in minor or major. I'm a happy camper.

Now to the negatives. As has previously be stated, after market customization parts, or even basics and few and far between. You cannot get a race holster for it unless you want to modify the block. Good race mag pouches need a custom spacer to fit the TS mags. The finish on the inside of the gun is abysmal- literally machined with a dull end mill. Blade-Tech is your only choice of holsters. If you buy their Competition holster, DO NOT get the dropped Stingray loop. It is angled so the muzzle points at your knee cap.

I am not sorry I purchased the gun and I will continue to use it. If I had to start all over again, I'd take a real hard look at the Tanfoglio Single Action. It is a CZ clone with a much, much better finish and anyone who makes race gear makes stuff that fits Tanfoglios. I shot my friends and it is a truly awesome pistol for not much more than the TS.

Edited October 1, 2014 by zzt

[KOBGT]

Bart, I recently faced the same decision you are. I love 1911 pattern pistols, so I thought the 2011 type would be my first choice. I shot them and I love them. Iwas going to build one, but I 'm in the middle of a 1911 build and didn't want to start another project. I shot several TS at the club, in both 9mm and 40 S&W and an older IPSC model in 9mm. I liked them too.

I didn't want to wait, so I ordered a 40 TS from the CZ Custom shop. Trigger was a tad over 2lbs with a touch of creep. The pistol was tight, and didn't loosen up until I had 500 or so rounds through it. I added a fiber front sight, a steel guide rod and thin grips. I ordered the extended base pads to get mag capacity up to 20 rounds. 17 round mags don't get it done, so if you order the pistol from the Custom shop, be sure to tell them you want the extended base pads and have them install them and test. They will swap things out until they work. Don't ask how I know to do this. Buy your extra mags at the same time and have them do the same.

Loaded to 1.126" everything from 155gr to 180gr in SWC or TC, jacketed or lead feed flawlessly and cycle with a 13lb spring in minor or major. I'm a happy camper.

Now to the negatives. As has previously be stated, after market customization parts, or even basics and few and far between. You cannot get a race holster for it unless you want to modify the block. Good race mag pouches need a custom spacer to fit the TS mags. The finish on the inside of the gun is abysmal- literally machined with a dull end mill. Blade-Tech is your only choice of holsters. If you buy their Competition holster, DO NOT get the dropped Stingray loop. It is angled so the muzzle points at your knee cap.

I am not sorry I purchased the gun and I will continue to use it. If I had to start all over again, I'd take a real hard look at the Tanfoglio Single Action. It is a CZ clone with a much, much better finish and anyone who makes race gear makes stuff that fits Tanfoglios. I shot my friends and it is a truly awesome pistol for not much more than the TS.

I have a Manny Bragg magnetic holster that works flawlessly with a TS, so there is a race holster option. However, I prefer the security of a Blade Tech.

Very good advice about the mags, I have a CTS I just got from CZ Custom and only 4 out of my 12 TS mags work/fit in the gun. I sent it back to CZC, but the problem still persists. Very frustrating.

[leas327]

What are you guys issues with mags?

I have bought all my stuff at random times and been able to make it all work in both my TS guns. The biggest issue I have is needing to give the tubes a little vice love to get them to drop free. I believe 2011 people call it "tuning". I have also had to bend some feed lips back in spec and replace some springs and followers after a year of use. That stuff has happened to every gun I have used for any amount of time.

My gun weighs 44.5 oz and the slide is 14.5 oz. It is a heavy gun. I find it odd that the people are pushing for 37 oz. Limited guns and the hotness in Production is a 44 oz. stock 2.

I put a regluar washer behind glock spacers in CR speed pouches and they work great. All my adjusment srcews have rattled out but the mags still stay fine and pull from the mag pouch clean.

I use a Glock CR speed wsmII holster and made a spacer for the trigger guard myself out of aluminum. I also took a heat gun to it and straightened up the other side where the lock tab is. It actually holds the TS better than it ever held the glock. I can't draw through the lock like I could with the glock.

Edited October 1, 2014 by leas327

[Neomet]

Very good advice about the mags, I have a CTS I just got from CZ Custom and only 4 out of my 12 TS mags work/fit in the gun. I sent it back to CZC, but the problem still persists. Very frustrating.

Have you made sure it isn't the basepads? Take the basepads off and see if the mags insert/seat/drop free. If so it is the top rear corners of the basepads hitting the interior of the magwell. File or grind those points down a bit to get the clearance you need. I've never had a mag issue with a TS.