RO Suspected of Cheating in USPSA Matches

[motosapiens]

Doodie ruining USPSA?????

I personally hated Doodie, then I found myself sneaking over there reading that drivel. Then I was posting. Then, ......then, well after eating a couple of their famous bags of cuisine, I started to see it for what it truly is.

What is Doodie? That's for you to decide. I like to think its plain old fashioned speaking truth to authority. It ain't pretty over there, but it's always entertaining and truthful.

Doodie is Enosvere's psycho significant other. Brash, bold, ballsy and bitchin'. I can no longer have one without the other and after your investigations, you'll feel the same. If not, then I've got some special bags of cuisine for you!!

You missed the words before and after doodie is ruining uspsa

The. Area 6 leadership and inner circle when faced with the fact that our match results are like a north korean election responded by:

Doodie is ruining uspsa

This is all trolling

If you are mean to wsd we wont work any more matches

Paul hendrix is an honorable wonderful man that contibuted greatly to area 6 and uspsa

Whats not to freak out about?

If its no big deal it will continue. If wsd is a pillar what are the scumbags doing?

Should i pay 140 to get scores based on who i rode with?

Doodie and their appropriate reaction is the only reason i renewed my membership. If everyone just said its not appropriate to discuss then i would assume they were cool with it.

Thanks for your perspective. Perhaps the area 6 leadership is still in a denial phase. Frankly, anyone who thinks a cheater shouldn't be banned permanently is not needed to work any matches. I'm sure there are enough honorable people in your area that will step up.

[BeerBaron]

I've been shooting several different match types for a few years. Recently I was thinking about making a competitive run at either USPSA or 3gun.

This is pushing me to 3gun :/

I saw a plane crash on the news. I'm going to drive everywhere now.

Regarding whether to concentrate on uspsa or 3-gun, I would do which ever one you like best, not whichever one has fewer internet scandals this week.

I think Rammerjammer answered this, but I felt like people who are upset are not saying:

"I'm upset because of a plane crash and because of that I'll never fly again."

it's more

"I'm upset that there was a plane crash and the management of that airline are pretending it's no big deal and don't want anyone to know about it".

I think that's the problem people are having. They are not talking about bailing out or whatever over the fact there may have been cheating. They are not happy about the perceived response.

[The Antichrome]

Can someone explain to me why, with an official USPSA investigation (that was not announced on the USPSA page nor disbursed via email to membership or SC's) being conducted, that we have to read about it on the A6 Facebook page?

President appoints someone, we hear about it on FB. Investigator asks for information vie doodie and FB, "result" announced via FB with a resignation from USPSA - no ban, no punishment, just an allowance to slip quietly into the night, and membership is not being informed about it?

Crickets chirping, vast majority of shooters in USPSA remain clueless. As if nothing ever happened. One of the largest scandals to impact our sport and if you don't facebook, chances are you don't hear about it.

I am asking this as a USPSA member, not as a section coordinator because I don't want the issue clouded that in my "official" capacity as an SC I am speaking for the organization.

The A4 Director announced all of the above (with exception of the members resignation) via direct email last week. If your AD didnt disburse the info to his Area membership, then complain directly to them...and vote them out of office.

Are you saying all the ADs got an email about this situation? Are you sure about it?

No thats not what I'm saying at all. I said that the A4D sent an email about it to inform the Area 4 members. Any AD that didnt do something similar, failed in their duties.

Ok, if the A4D announced it, where did he get the info from? Was he going off of hearsay at the time or did he receive an official correspondence from within the organization? I just want to know how much was given to the ADs (mainly the A6D) and how much was put out before I start complaining to him. Thanks

I guess I dont understand what you're picking at. "From within the organization" would mean the Board of Directors...the board is comprised of the Area Directors. The Director for A4 was just relaying to his membership what the board had done so far. Simple as that, I would expect every Area Director to do the same.

This has been published on every forum already, but here is that message to the members:

(Please cascade this to your respective mailing lists.)

As many of you know, an RO from Area 6 has been accused of cheating by adjusting times. The public outcry on several forums and in social media outlets has been loud, profane, and vehement. I can understand the indignation at allegations like this, and the evidence, on the face of it, is damning. Rest assured that the USPSA Board of Directors is working the issue, and in fact we were aware of the problem a day or two ahead of the news breaking on the internet.

Here is a statement from USPSA's Area 1 Director, Chuck Anderson, who has been charged with investigating the allegations:

I just got approval from the BOD to do the actual investigation into the questions regarding Paul Hendrix cheating as a range official for USPSA. If anyone has videos, names info whatever, please email them to me at area1@uspsa.org. If you're not comfortable sending it to a USPSA server email it to my personal account at chuck@andersontactical.com. I need the video, native video ideal but I'll take FB or YouTube links if it's not available, and as much info as you can give, shooter name and number, match and stage it came from. I could also use the name and email of the person sending the info to me. If you don't want to give it I understand, but it's going to be prioritized lower than info that comes in with a name associated. I'm going to busy and won't be able to hunt it down spread across FaceBook and various forums.

Edit to add: One other piece of information that would help is if you know what device captured the video. i.e. GoPro, Tachyon, iPhone etc.

Thanks,

Chuck Anderson

USPSA Area 1 Director

I have confidence that Chuck will examine the evidence thoroughly and fairly. As more information becomes available, I will communicate it to you via email.

Regards,

Troy McManus

USPSA Area 4 Director

Edited June 25, 2014 by The Antichrome

[Lifeislarge]

If cheaters aren't hung out to dry in a public and humiliating fashion what deterrent is there for future cheaters? They have to make an example out of these guys or this shit will continue. BTW, Doodie saved my Enos membership. I signed up back in the 1.0 days and at the time I was being warned on here by the mods on a weekly basis (just after election/Sandy Hook) for being too outspoken and breaking the forum rules. Doodie gave me the outlet to be around fellow shooters and call a spade a spade so I kept it there. It's really no different than the uncensored conversations I have at matches with my buddies. When the story broke there the first 40 something pages were conjecture without names but once the names and videos were posted there was no doubt that it was fact. Would that have worked here? Nope.

[Nik Habicht]

I just see Doodie as less "restrictive", less governmentalized.

Both websites run according to the wishes of their founders, no? In that respect they're actually pretty similar.....

[Matt1]

Quote

To the members of USPSA Area 6.

I have spoken with people that I trust and respect their views.

In review it appears that I have fallen short in safeguarding the trust and duties place with me in this sport.

I apologize for those shortcomings, as well as, any pain or embarrassment caused.

I accept the full responsibility for my shortcomings.

I have resigned my membership in this great organization.

At some point in my future I hope to rebuild that trust.

Humbly Submitted,

Paul Hendrix

The Doodie version of this is much funnier (and depending on which side of the fence you are on, potentially closer to PVH's "intent")

and FYI, this "news" has made it all the way to Oz, we've been following it for a week now...

[Steve RA]

What is the web address for "Doodie", I must be one of the 1% who haven't seen it ???

[alma]

Doodieproject.invisionzone.com

[motosapiens]

I've been shooting several different match types for a few years. Recently I was thinking about making a competitive run at either USPSA or 3gun.

This is pushing me to 3gun :/

I saw a plane crash on the news. I'm going to drive everywhere now.

Regarding whether to concentrate on uspsa or 3-gun, I would do which ever one you like best, not whichever one has fewer internet scandals this week.

I think Rammerjammer answered this, but I felt like people who are upset are not saying:

"I'm upset because of a plane crash and because of that I'll never fly again."

it's more

"I'm upset that there was a plane crash and the management of that airline are pretending it's no big deal and don't want anyone to know about it".

I think that's the problem people are having. They are not talking about bailing out or whatever over the fact there may have been cheating. They are not happy about the perceived response.

I understand what you are saying, but the words I've seen from Troy and Chuck so far make it seem very much to me like this *is* a big deal, and they want everyone to know what's going on and that an investigation is under way and if you can help the investigation please contact chuck.

sure, it's not as satisfying as an immediate public lynching, but it's the response I would hope for and expect.

[RammerJammer]

The corporate leadership ie chuck are all over this. Its the area 6 core on facebook that are making this very disturbing. I have shot a local match with a lot of this crew and was blown away by the results. No video, no real evidence of anything just a wow that got shot horribly and beat everybody. Then this and everybody is like quit talking about the face of area 6 trolls he is an honorable man and how dare you question anyone else! I like to think i have a rough idea of the integrity of my inner circle and if i crushed a bunch of gms with one of them running the timer i would be looking at every angle. Also if wsd was a friend of mine i would be the most vicious attackers around. I would tell everything i knew and end up banned from enos and the a6 facebook page.

But hey who cares if we are legitimate as long as everyone is polite right?

[1v3t0x0]

I agree with what you guys are saying; some jackwagon cheating doesn't dissuade me from getting into a sport. A bunch of people losing their minds over it, is kind of negative.

By my count there are like 5 or 6 people losing their minds over it, and they seem to be the same people that lose their minds over other stuff too. Most of us are glad this was brought to light and glad USPSA is handling it and willing to wait a few days or weeks for them to announce their findings and actions.

I yhink the freakout is geographically based. If hq is a couple miles away no problem. If this is your area and your local membership praising him and freaking out about a meme thread saying this is no big deal but doodie is ruining uspsa its time to freak out.

I sstarted to freak out when people started saying if you punish him goodluck finding people to work matches like cheating was a perk and section directors were trying to saint him.

Its cool if you shoot matches with the uspsa pres. I shoot them with magic timer and his inner circle.

I think you misunderstood what was actually said. Comprehension is key!. Someone made the comment "if you don't allow staff to shoot, good luck finding people to work matches." That in no way implies that the staff cheats, it simply implies that we are all, staff included, shooters and want to shoot the matches. The staff goes above and beyond by sticking around and working the match. If you have never actually worked a large match away from home I will tell you that more money is spent by the staff on extra food and travel expenses than if they actually just payed entry and shot the match.

Edited June 25, 2014 by 1v3t0x0

[Nik Habicht]

But hey who cares if we are legitimate as long as everyone is polite right?

Why can't we be both? Civility isn't that hard.....

[Vanniek71]

But hey who cares if we are legitimate as long as everyone is polite right?

Why can't we be both? Civility isn't that hard.....

Because everyone with a computer has a bigger/tougher/longer/better (insert choice) e-peen than the person before them. Civility goes right out the window. That being said, if you can take stuff with a grain of salt and go in to a place like Doodie knowing it is like that, its not that hard to get past it and find the real value.

[MarkCO]

But hey who cares if we are legitimate as long as everyone is polite right?

Why can't we be both? Civility isn't that hard.....

Because some people are way too sensitive, and others don't give a rip about anyone else. The decorum, or civility that was once commonplace has gone the way of a good work ethic, commom good, service, etc. Shooting was the one place, for the last 20 years or so, where I enjoyed those things still existing in the vast majority. The minority is growing fast in the shooting sports, changing the landscape and growing the rulebooks.

[Bryan 45]

But hey who cares if we are legitimate as long as everyone is polite right?

Why can't we be both? Civility isn't that hard.....

Because some people are way too sensitive, and others don't give a rip about anyone else. The decorum, or civility that was once commonplace has gone the way of a good work ethic, commom good, service, etc. Shooting was the one place, for the last 20 years or so, where I enjoyed those things still existing in the vast majority. The minority is growing fast in the shooting sports, changing the landscape and growing the rulebooks.

Well said, Mark.

[chaosshooter00]

Because some people are way too sensitive, and others don't give a rip about anyone else. The decorum, or civility that was once commonplace has gone the way of a good work ethic, common good, service, etc. Shooting was the one place, for the last 20 years or so, where I enjoyed those things still existing in the vast majority. The minority is growing fast in the shooting sports, changing the landscape and growing the rulebooks.

Hoorah!! Haven't been at it that long, but hope to be. I actually think shooting made me a better person and I still want to improve on that. I try to instill the same feeling in my Junior shooters. Thanks Mark, for stating it in easy to read terms..

Edited June 25, 2014 by chaosshooter00

[retarmyaviator]

But hey who cares if we are legitimate as long as everyone is polite right?

Why can't we be both? Civility isn't that hard.....

It is rapidly becoming a lost art.

[apowers1214]

It is true that cheating goes on in every sport but when it comes to light something has to be done immediately to curb it. The punishment should be equal to the offence and in this case if proven to be true should the individual(s) involved should be banned from the sport for life.

If this is caused by the value of the prizes available as mentioned in several posts. Separate the matches into two divisions amateur and professional. Put the pros money in the pot and let them shoot for it. If they pay a high entry fee they will self monitor the cheating situation. The amateurs can pay a relative low entry free and shoot for trophies or plaques.

No way! Whether or not we can expect to beat them, the regular joes want an opportunity to have some great runs and see how they measure up against the pros. A few simple RO procedures can mitigate this issue. I think some people are forgetting that the vast majority of people in the shooting sports are honest competitors.

I agree. It only takes one to ruin it for everyone.

[de03x7]

 

I agree with you on the additional time JFlowers. I also agree with the professional level increase for RO staff. I know when I played paintball they way around this was the crews working the events didn't play in them. I think the videos would be a great learning tool.

 

I do not support the RO's not Playing if they are working, The RO position is voluntary. I am an RO, I volunteer, I take no pay for this, I show up with the very first people, to set up, register, talk to new shooters, run a squad in 100 deg heat and -20 deg cold. Do the safety briefs. Have a safe and fun shooting experience, Stay till dark to breakdown and store all the materials, and I enjoy every minute of it. I agree that "this person" has brought great shame to himself and much can be done to improve the sport.

However, There are a very small group of people dedicated to running this sport, month after month around the country, and if we don't get to play, no body gets to play!!

I absolutely and emphatically agree that more training and continuing training is necessary. I hate to compare this to IDPA, but here goes. I was an IDPA S.O. also, I say WAS, because I have chosen to concentrate on USPSA exclusively, and haven's shot IDPA in 2-3 years. One thing that IDPA had right was that if, you wanted to be an SO, you would Roger up, the Club MD would set a date and time and would hold a Training Class, Class Passed, Paperwork Submitted, SO Card came in the Mail.

I have been shooting USPSA, since 2007 as a non-member, I RO'd local Matches as a non-qualified RO, I became a member 2/29/12 and finally found a seat in an RO class 6/10/13. Why is this? why so few NROI classes? Why so Geographically spread out, for often a large fee charged. I was "Lucky", I attended the class for free because it was paid for by SIG Sauer Academy in conjunction with the 2013 Area 7 match. The class was Taught by John Amidon, a great instructor and a wealth of knowledge, BUT!! Is all of that really necessary.

Here is my proposal, and I would gladly talk to anyone at HQ about this.

1. Establish a official RO, CRO, MD training program, maybe one exists already within NROI, I have a workbook of sorts from my RO class, great. Now take that approved curriculum, and publish it on the web for all members to see. Chapter 1, record a You Tube video, do a Powerpoint presentation something, whatever it takes, get the material out there, embed in the training material, pertinent rule changes, BoD rulings, clarifications of rules, a text document with all the "Inside NROI" columns from Front Sight. Do this for every single chapter and section in the rule book.

If a shooter is interested in becoming an RO, they should be able to go onto the USPSA site, Log in, go through all the material with explanations, take an open book practice test, print out his completed test, everything. Make this a requirement to get your RO cert, before attending a class.

2. This brings me to my second point, Looking at the USPSA site under the NROI tab for the entire 2014 listing there is only ONE RO class in New England for 2014, what does that seat 20-30 students? So we have members through out Area 7 that would love to take the class, but...if they can't make it to that class they will have to wait another year or travel a very long distance. The next option would be to travel to North Carolina or Ohio. Not feasible for very many.

Solution: Make more RO instructors. We have people throughout the country that have been RO'ing for years, CRO's, Match Directors, Range Masters, Masters and Grand Masters. Get them certified to put on more classes. If we establish an online training system, the class would mostly be a review, a bit of Discussion and Clarification, a Range portion with a bit of shooting and then the normal online open book test. Come on!! if we are not having at least 5-10 classes a year in each of the 8 Areas we are severely limiting our pool of staff. No wonder we can't scare up the help and people burn out.

3. Do all of the above, for all of the levels of NROI certification, I am an RO, I really want to become a CRO, and a MD, and who knows someday I might want to run for a Sectional or Area position. Back to the NROI tab. There are 4 CRO classes listed, I live in Maine, the classes are in Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, and Georgia this year, Which one do you think I will be able to make it to. You Guessed it!! None!! Unacceptable.

I love Shooting USPSA matches, I probably like working them a little bit better than that, I am a volunteer by nature, I served in the military, I am a natural teacher and instructor. I would love to see the sport grow, more clubs, more shooters, more matches.

Give us the tools to succeed!!

We are making great strides in the technology realm, Practiscore has made scoring much faster and less time consuming, but it is Garbage in and Garbage out if we are not entering scores correctly. There is no explanation for the recent events, it makes me a little sick to think about the ramifications going forward and for the people this has allegedly helped and hurt.

Make an immediate rule that the RO will show the timer display to the Shooter and to the Score Keeper after the "Range is Clear" is called out.

This has a couple implications. First, the shooter will see the last split, the final time and make sure that it checks out, the score keeper will see it and should repeat it back then enter it. The score keeper is the second RO on the stage, he is looking for foot faults, he is backing up the RO, he or she should be watching for extra shots, failure to engage, correct procedure followed, foot faults. The primary RO is right on the shooters heels watching for all these things, and acting as the primary safety observer, I am watching the gun, the trigger finger, the muzzle, the finger in the trigger guard while moving, I may not always be able to do all that and count the number of shots fired before a mandatory reload or whether the target was actually engaged or if there were 2 misses. That means that even at the local matches and especially at the Major matches, the Score Keeper needs to be proceeding down range with the Shooter and RO and assisting, not standing in the shade relaxing.

I Highly recommend that the final split is shown and called out, and required that it is done for Major Matches. Most all, except the most antiquated timers in use show the split time on the screen. Next, put out some guidance on how to properly set up the timer for use. At a local match I have seen some real relics for timers, and many of us, my self included bring our own timers for use on the range. For major matches, that really may no longer be acceptable. We play a game where matches are won and classifications are earned by fractions of a second and single points down on a target.

My timer has always to my knowledge picked up all the shots fired in a course, it has a sensitivity adjustment that I have never messed with. I am close enough to the shooter that the Sound Pressure Level of the shot being fired registers on the timer. Some have suggested that merely tapping the timer or being to close for the unload and show clear and the sound of the slide or hammer dropping will register on the timer. I don't think that is the case. In order to test my timer I either have to smack the microphone very hard or yell bang into it. Our shooting bays are usually very close together and if the guy in the next bay blasting away with his open gun, loud enough to require hearing protection in my bay is not tripping my timer then your hammer dropping one inch is sure not going to do it. That is of course as long as your timer has not been set to Air Soft sensitivity levels from your last practice session. The club should approve the use of certain makes and models of timers for official match use, they should have a laminated sheet that tells exactly how to set the timer up for match use, how to set the delay to instant, what sensitivity level to use, how to review the data etc.

For a major match those timers should be taken to the chrono stage, a qualified person should verify that the timer is charged, set up correctly, and hell why not line them up on a table and fire a couple of live rounds over them to verify they work. Nothing worse than having to reshoot a shooter, or have to reshoot as a shooter because the darn timer is not working or picking up other shots. Then slap a Sticker on it that tells everyone that it has been checked and the thing should work. I am not going to be impressed when I go to a major match and I have an RO running me with a watch type timer. Nothing against the timer, but they are too new, no one understands them and I don't want to trust my match to some new toy that belongs to the RO personally and has an inertia sensor that is designed to reject shots if not worn on the shooters wrist. I better have faith that the RO knows how to operate it, the timer is set up correctly and that Air Soft mode is off and the Inertia sensor is not used.

So take it with a grain of salt, dismiss my thoughts all together, comment back and give me your thoughts. Rant mode OFF!

Alright, Rant on. I’m staying away from the time scandal until it is sorted out.

Jamiethesquid, I haven’t read past your post to see if anyone has told you yet but a club in your area needs to sponsor a class in order to have one in your area. The sponsoring club pays NROI $800 for up to 20 students in the class, classroom and range space and motel, rental car, and food expenses for the instructor. When I took the RO class a couple years ago here in Alaska, if I recall correctly, it cost my wife, my daughter, and I $225 to be certified to volunteer. This year when I take the CRO class due to the club getting a grant from the NRA Foundation through Friends of NRA to help with the cost of the class, all it will cost me is a day of vacation time from work.

I would agree that it would be nice if the classes were available online but until then someone has to schedule a class and someone has to pay for it. I am sure your local club would be happy to sponsor a class if you would ramrod it to make it happen.

[1v3t0x0]

 

I agree with you on the additional time JFlowers. I also agree with the professional level increase for RO staff. I know when I played paintball they way around this was the crews working the events didn't play in them. I think the videos would be a great learning tool.

 

I do not support the RO's not Playing if they are working, The RO position is voluntary. I am an RO, I volunteer, I take no pay for this, I show up with the very first people, to set up, register, talk to new shooters, run a squad in 100 deg heat and -20 deg cold. Do the safety briefs. Have a safe and fun shooting experience, Stay till dark to breakdown and store all the materials, and I enjoy every minute of it. I agree that "this person" has brought great shame to himself and much can be done to improve the sport.

However, There are a very small group of people dedicated to running this sport, month after month around the country, and if we don't get to play, no body gets to play!!

I absolutely and emphatically agree that more training and continuing training is necessary. I hate to compare this to IDPA, but here goes. I was an IDPA S.O. also, I say WAS, because I have chosen to concentrate on USPSA exclusively, and haven's shot IDPA in 2-3 years. One thing that IDPA had right was that if, you wanted to be an SO, you would Roger up, the Club MD would set a date and time and would hold a Training Class, Class Passed, Paperwork Submitted, SO Card came in the Mail.

I have been shooting USPSA, since 2007 as a non-member, I RO'd local Matches as a non-qualified RO, I became a member 2/29/12 and finally found a seat in an RO class 6/10/13. Why is this? why so few NROI classes? Why so Geographically spread out, for often a large fee charged. I was "Lucky", I attended the class for free because it was paid for by SIG Sauer Academy in conjunction with the 2013 Area 7 match. The class was Taught by John Amidon, a great instructor and a wealth of knowledge, BUT!! Is all of that really necessary.

Here is my proposal, and I would gladly talk to anyone at HQ about this.

1. Establish a official RO, CRO, MD training program, maybe one exists already within NROI, I have a workbook of sorts from my RO class, great. Now take that approved curriculum, and publish it on the web for all members to see. Chapter 1, record a You Tube video, do a Powerpoint presentation something, whatever it takes, get the material out there, embed in the training material, pertinent rule changes, BoD rulings, clarifications of rules, a text document with all the "Inside NROI" columns from Front Sight. Do this for every single chapter and section in the rule book.

If a shooter is interested in becoming an RO, they should be able to go onto the USPSA site, Log in, go through all the material with explanations, take an open book practice test, print out his completed test, everything. Make this a requirement to get your RO cert, before attending a class.

2. This brings me to my second point, Looking at the USPSA site under the NROI tab for the entire 2014 listing there is only ONE RO class in New England for 2014, what does that seat 20-30 students? So we have members through out Area 7 that would love to take the class, but...if they can't make it to that class they will have to wait another year or travel a very long distance. The next option would be to travel to North Carolina or Ohio. Not feasible for very many.

Solution: Make more RO instructors. We have people throughout the country that have been RO'ing for years, CRO's, Match Directors, Range Masters, Masters and Grand Masters. Get them certified to put on more classes. If we establish an online training system, the class would mostly be a review, a bit of Discussion and Clarification, a Range portion with a bit of shooting and then the normal online open book test. Come on!! if we are not having at least 5-10 classes a year in each of the 8 Areas we are severely limiting our pool of staff. No wonder we can't scare up the help and people burn out.

3. Do all of the above, for all of the levels of NROI certification, I am an RO, I really want to become a CRO, and a MD, and who knows someday I might want to run for a Sectional or Area position. Back to the NROI tab. There are 4 CRO classes listed, I live in Maine, the classes are in Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, and Georgia this year, Which one do you think I will be able to make it to. You Guessed it!! None!! Unacceptable.

I love Shooting USPSA matches, I probably like working them a little bit better than that, I am a volunteer by nature, I served in the military, I am a natural teacher and instructor. I would love to see the sport grow, more clubs, more shooters, more matches.

Give us the tools to succeed!!

We are making great strides in the technology realm, Practiscore has made scoring much faster and less time consuming, but it is Garbage in and Garbage out if we are not entering scores correctly. There is no explanation for the recent events, it makes me a little sick to think about the ramifications going forward and for the people this has allegedly helped and hurt.

Make an immediate rule that the RO will show the timer display to the Shooter and to the Score Keeper after the "Range is Clear" is called out.

This has a couple implications. First, the shooter will see the last split, the final time and make sure that it checks out, the score keeper will see it and should repeat it back then enter it. The score keeper is the second RO on the stage, he is looking for foot faults, he is backing up the RO, he or she should be watching for extra shots, failure to engage, correct procedure followed, foot faults. The primary RO is right on the shooters heels watching for all these things, and acting as the primary safety observer, I am watching the gun, the trigger finger, the muzzle, the finger in the trigger guard while moving, I may not always be able to do all that and count the number of shots fired before a mandatory reload or whether the target was actually engaged or if there were 2 misses. That means that even at the local matches and especially at the Major matches, the Score Keeper needs to be proceeding down range with the Shooter and RO and assisting, not standing in the shade relaxing.

I Highly recommend that the final split is shown and called out, and required that it is done for Major Matches. Most all, except the most antiquated timers in use show the split time on the screen. Next, put out some guidance on how to properly set up the timer for use. At a local match I have seen some real relics for timers, and many of us, my self included bring our own timers for use on the range. For major matches, that really may no longer be acceptable. We play a game where matches are won and classifications are earned by fractions of a second and single points down on a target.

My timer has always to my knowledge picked up all the shots fired in a course, it has a sensitivity adjustment that I have never messed with. I am close enough to the shooter that the Sound Pressure Level of the shot being fired registers on the timer. Some have suggested that merely tapping the timer or being to close for the unload and show clear and the sound of the slide or hammer dropping will register on the timer. I don't think that is the case. In order to test my timer I either have to smack the microphone very hard or yell bang into it. Our shooting bays are usually very close together and if the guy in the next bay blasting away with his open gun, loud enough to require hearing protection in my bay is not tripping my timer then your hammer dropping one inch is sure not going to do it. That is of course as long as your timer has not been set to Air Soft sensitivity levels from your last practice session. The club should approve the use of certain makes and models of timers for official match use, they should have a laminated sheet that tells exactly how to set the timer up for match use, how to set the delay to instant, what sensitivity level to use, how to review the data etc.

For a major match those timers should be taken to the chrono stage, a qualified person should verify that the timer is charged, set up correctly, and hell why not line them up on a table and fire a couple of live rounds over them to verify they work. Nothing worse than having to reshoot a shooter, or have to reshoot as a shooter because the darn timer is not working or picking up other shots. Then slap a Sticker on it that tells everyone that it has been checked and the thing should work. I am not going to be impressed when I go to a major match and I have an RO running me with a watch type timer. Nothing against the timer, but they are too new, no one understands them and I don't want to trust my match to some new toy that belongs to the RO personally and has an inertia sensor that is designed to reject shots if not worn on the shooters wrist. I better have faith that the RO knows how to operate it, the timer is set up correctly and that Air Soft mode is off and the Inertia sensor is not used.

So take it with a grain of salt, dismiss my thoughts all together, comment back and give me your thoughts. Rant mode OFF!

Alright, Rant on. I’m staying away from the time scandal until it is sorted out.

Jamiethesquid, I haven’t read past your post to see if anyone has told you yet but a club in your area needs to sponsor a class in order to have one in your area. The sponsoring club pays NROI $800 for up to 20 students in the class, classroom and range space and motel, rental car, and food expenses for the instructor. When I took the RO class a couple years ago here in Alaska, if I recall correctly, it cost my wife, my daughter, and I $225 to be certified to volunteer. This year when I take the CRO class due to the club getting a grant from the NRA Foundation through Friends of NRA to help with the cost of the class, all it will cost me is a day of vacation time from work.

I would agree that it would be nice if the classes were available online but until then someone has to schedule a class and someone has to pay for it. I am sure your local club would be happy to sponsor a class if you would ramrod it to make it happen.

+100

[RammerJammer]

I am a fan of civility in civil company. I try to avoid snide comments like "comprehension is key" so i dont look like an arrogant jerk. However, there are those who deserve no civility. There are acts that require condemnation. Loud condemnation. This is not someone who flipped and caught a round at ulsc.

[MarkCO]

"You will never soar with Eagles if you enjoy strutting with Turkeys"

[1v3t0x0]

I am a fan of civility in civil company. I try to avoid snide comments like "comprehension is key" so i dont look like an arrogant jerk. However, there are those who deserve no civility. There are acts that require condemnation. Loud condemnation. This is not someone who flipped and caught a round at ulsc.

I am in agreement that these acts are terrible and if they are true swift and harsh punishment is in order, however flying off the handle and going on a rant that "staff won't show up if they can't cheat" is ridiculous and makes no sense. Are you that sure this is a wide spread problem? It just seems like you are so sure you are correct when you obviously misunderstood the point either accidentally or by choice. That kind of makes you look "like an arrogant jerk" as well sir.

[XD Niner]

I think you are referencing the wrong quote above.

[Stlhead]

"You will never soar with Eagles if you enjoy strutting with Turkeys"

Sir, I must ask you what you mean by this quote, whom it was directed, and specifically the post it was pertaining to. Remember that not many people are as clever as you are, certainly not me.

This smacks of something that would be at the bottom of a pithy motivational poster in a break room somewhere. Possibly with a picture of majestic eagle soaring over a mountain lake. Or a Butterball fresh from the oven.