RO Suspected of Cheating in USPSA Matches

[Chris iliff]

"You can say what you want about Paul Hendrix but he has done a very honorable thing by his act of resigning saving our sport from having to deal with a potentially long and difficult process. I appreciate his courage and unselfish contribution in so doing."

Not in a million years is what he has done courageous or unselfish. By resigning and removing himself from the authority of USPSA he has done the equivalent of fleeing to a non-extradition country after committing a crime. It is a cowardly and loathsome thing to have done. What courageous actually looks like is remaining a member and writing to the board admitting his wrongdoings then standing tall while he takes whatever punishment is metered out.

+2, .........err -2 ?????

Whatever,....that is a perfect post and I was searching for some words, but you Sir, nailed my sentiments perfectly, THANKS!!!!!!!

[Chills1994]

My USPSA dues are up in July. Thinking about dropping membership all together. What's the point in supporting a corrupt organization? I pretty much only shoot locals anyways.

I figured out the corruption thing back in 2008 with the Single Stack Nationals RO hotel room fiasco. Nobody higher up stepped up to correct the problem. Then nobody apologized. Then to add insult to injury my name and two maybe three other RO's names from the St. Louis area were purposely left out of the "hat" for the RO only gun gun/frame/slide/shwag drawing at the end the SS Nat's.

Then tack on the Steel Challenge purchase...

Then the classifier stages debacle...

And for some of you guys thinking, "Dang! That Chills guy sure does harp on the high hit factors not being disclosed issue!"

Now you know why. The classifier system is just a revenue stream.

Wouldn't surprise me if the HHF's have been tinkered with to increase revenue.

[Sarge]

OK, all that makes sense. Did Strader or Amidon tell us, in official correspondence that this was the path forward? AFAIK, Chuck told everyone on Doodie and Strader put something on the A6 Facebook page. Not exactly official. But please correct me if I am wrong.

It's plain to see that HQ is inept in the communications with membership department. They don't answer emails. They don't even acknowledge a lot of scandalous happenings. They don't even seem to realize they should be telling us what is going on. It's almost a scandal in itself.

[BritinUSA]

Hopefully everyone will remember all this when the next election cycles through.

[RammerJammer]

Well hq needs to do something quick before a6 and the ga section give him a medal and name the regional match after him. I guess a lot of people think if you work enough matches you earn certain priviledges. I understand you being loyal when a friend is accused of a crime but once you see it on video if you continue to stand by them you are complicit. I now just have to assume that most of these guys view it as no big deal just like giving your buddy a little leniency on cover calls in idpa.

The worst part is its not a small group who rides together and just started. We will never be rid of the corruption.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I have reserved any comment on all of this and as disgusted as I have been since first hearing about it, I am more disgusted with the severe lack of communication and concern by the USPSA Governing body to make sure members have the proper information.

Since becoming a RO in 2006, I have worked matches in my section and area like many others. I agree continuing education is important so a while ago, I paid for and took a second RO class as a refresher.

I have committed to work chrono for staff day at my local area match so the chrono staff can shoot the match but will never work a match again or hold a timer in this sport should I ever decide to compete again. I have come to the realization that the USPSA governing body could not care less about the membership.

[justaute]

Paul...we'll remember. If there's something I can do right now, I would.

The bigger question is...will we have competent candidates?

Are you going to run?

Hopefully everyone will remember all this when the next election cycles through.

[McCringleberry]

OK, all that makes sense. Did Strader or Amidon tell us, in official correspondence that this was the path forward? AFAIK, Chuck told everyone on Doodie and Strader put something on the A6 Facebook page. Not exactly official. But please correct me if I am wrong.

It's plain to see that HQ is inept in the communications with membership department. They don't answer emails. They don't even acknowledge a lot of scandalous happenings. They don't even seem to realize they should be telling us what is going on. It's almost a scandal in itself.

Do you mean the BoD/President communications or the whole office in general? I would have to say the latter is extremely efficient and knowledgeable when it comes to requests from members and general communication. I have had everything from a multitude of applications submitted, changes of address put in, requests for score updates, to even requesting old periodicals and I have always had first rate service. They work very hard and have always come through. However, I do feel that the former has let us down when it comes to membership communication.

[Nik Habicht]

The President is supposed to run the National Matches. The DNROI is supposed to deal with misconduct of officials. So, to me, the appointment of an investigator was the appropriate action by the BOD. However, I do think that the communication should have been to the members and not on the internet, in general both initially and any interim or status updates.

Was this not the misconduct of an official? Was this person not acting as an agent/representative of the NROI, especially in L2 & L3 matches?

Sure. On the other hand if you have an investigator on the Board who is offering his professional experience, and you have no professional experience as an investigator, would it not make sense to accept the offer?

[The Antichrome]

Can someone explain to me why, with an official USPSA investigation (that was not announced on the USPSA page nor disbursed via email to membership or SC's) being conducted, that we have to read about it on the A6 Facebook page?

President appoints someone, we hear about it on FB. Investigator asks for information vie doodie and FB, "result" announced via FB with a resignation from USPSA - no ban, no punishment, just an allowance to slip quietly into the night, and membership is not being informed about it?

Crickets chirping, vast majority of shooters in USPSA remain clueless. As if nothing ever happened. One of the largest scandals to impact our sport and if you don't facebook, chances are you don't hear about it.

I am asking this as a USPSA member, not as a section coordinator because I don't want the issue clouded that in my "official" capacity as an SC I am speaking for the organization.

The A4 Director announced all of the above (with exception of the members resignation) via direct email last week. If your AD didnt disburse the info to his Area membership, then complain directly to them...and vote them out of office.

[McCringleberry]

Can someone explain to me why, with an official USPSA investigation (that was not announced on the USPSA page nor disbursed via email to membership or SC's) being conducted, that we have to read about it on the A6 Facebook page?

President appoints someone, we hear about it on FB. Investigator asks for information vie doodie and FB, "result" announced via FB with a resignation from USPSA - no ban, no punishment, just an allowance to slip quietly into the night, and membership is not being informed about it?

Crickets chirping, vast majority of shooters in USPSA remain clueless. As if nothing ever happened. One of the largest scandals to impact our sport and if you don't facebook, chances are you don't hear about it.

I am asking this as a USPSA member, not as a section coordinator because I don't want the issue clouded that in my "official" capacity as an SC I am speaking for the organization.

The A4 Director announced all of the above (with exception of the members resignation) via direct email last week. If your AD didnt disburse the info to his Area membership, then complain directly to them...and vote them out of office.

Are you saying all the ADs got an email about this situation? Are you sure about it?

[BritinUSA]

Paul...we'll remember. If there's something I can do right now, I would.

The bigger question is...will we have competent candidates?

Are you going to run?

Hopefully everyone will remember all this when the next election cycles through.

I'm thinking about it.... The salary is a bit of an issue for me, I would have to quit my job so I could devote all the time that the position requires and if what I have heard of the salary (about 50K) is accurate then it amounts to a significant pay cut for me.

Edited June 24, 2014 by BritinUSA

[justaute]

yah...don't do that. It's not worth it. Unless, you can do both.

Paul...we'll remember. If there's something I can do right now, I would.

The bigger question is...will we have competent candidates?

Are you going to run?

Hopefully everyone will remember all this when the next election cycles through.

I'm thinking about it.... The salary is a bit of an issue for me, I would have to quit my job so I could devote all the time that the position requires and if what I have heard of the salary (about 50K) is accurate then it amounts to a significant pay cut for me.

[BritinUSA]

yah...don't do that. It's not worth it. Unless, you can do both.

I would never do both, I think the membership deserves more than a part-time position. USPSA needs a top-down overhaul and that's going to take a significant commitment from the President.

[justaute]

Should a complete restructuring is needed, which requires a full-time president, then the renumeration package should also be adjusted.

yah...don't do that. It's not worth it. Unless, you can do both.

I would never do both, I think the membership deserves more than a part-time position. USPSA needs a top-down overhaul and that's going to take a significant commitment from the President.

[GrumpyOne]

I have reserved any comment on all of this and as disgusted as I have been since first hearing about it, I am more disgusted with the severe lack of communication and concern by the USPSA Governing body to make sure members have the proper information.

Since becoming a RO in 2006, I have worked matches in my section and area like many others. I agree continuing education is important so a while ago, I paid for and took a second RO class as a refresher.

I have committed to work chrono for staff day at my local area match so the chrono staff can shoot the match but will never work a match again or hold a timer in this sport should I ever decide to compete again. I have come to the realization that the USPSA governing body could not care less about the membership.

Who is not shooting the match hurting? USPSA HQ? This is the wrong (IMO) stance to take. While I totally agree that HQ has dropped the ball on this and many other issues, what is boils down to is this is a sport. It's supposed to be a fun sport. It's a sport where you really don't compete against anyone else, only yourself...Sure, we pay dues...we pay for classifiers... but in the end, really, how much does us not knowing how much they paid for SC affect us? How does not knowing what they discussed in executive session affect us? How does them taking their time to make sure they get the call right on Hendrix affect us? Think of it as an overlay on a target...you want the right call, right? I'm hoping that when this is all over, they make the right decision, regarding Hendrix, and regarding the reasons, discussions, and information about this situation, and make it public...until then, stay the course...and if you don't like the way things turn out, work to change the way things are done...don't leave a sport that you obviously enjoy and love because of a cew bad apples...get involved, speak up.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I have reserved any comment on all of this and as disgusted as I have been since first hearing about it, I am more disgusted with the severe lack of communication and concern by the USPSA Governing body to make sure members have the proper information.

Since becoming a RO in 2006, I have worked matches in my section and area like many others. I agree continuing education is important so a while ago, I paid for and took a second RO class as a refresher.

I have committed to work chrono for staff day at my local area match so the chrono staff can shoot the match but will never work a match again or hold a timer in this sport should I ever decide to compete again. I have come to the realization that the USPSA governing body could not care less about the membership.

Who is not shooting the match hurting? USPSA HQ? This is the wrong (IMO) stance to take. While I totally agree that HQ has dropped the ball on this and many other issues, what is boils down to is this is a sport. It's supposed to be a fun sport. It's a sport where you really don't compete against anyone else, only yourself...Sure, we pay dues...we pay for classifiers... but in the end, really, how much does us not knowing how much they paid for SC affect us? How does not knowing what they discussed in executive session affect us? How does them taking their time to make sure they get the call right on Hendrix affect us? Think of it as an overlay on a target...you want the right call, right? I'm hoping that when this is all over, they make the right decision, regarding Hendrix, and regarding the reasons, discussions, and information about this situation, and make it public...until then, stay the course...and if you don't like the way things turn out, work to change the way things are done...don't leave a sport that you obviously enjoy and love because of a cew bad apples...get involved, speak up.

My decision not to shoot has nothing to do with this. It has to do with this http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=193571%C2'> I have worked matches without shooting but no more. When the time comes, I will give it a lot of thought whether I will start up again.

Getting involved more is not an option for me. I will be spending that time concentrating on my business and probably will be finding a new hobby and just shoot a local match once a month.

[Vlad]

Personally, I have given up on traveling to major matches of any sort some time ago. I shoot local matches (and I MD one of them) but that is it. I didn't shoot THAT many major matches but it didn't take me long to realize that they didn't offer me more then what I got locally and that the rules seemed less enforced or oddly enforced at majors.

I was almost more offended by Straders gag order then the cheating. Of course it was meaningless, as this was pretty much the topic at the range this weekend, so we can safely say most USPSA shooters either ignored it or never heard of it.

[Jaxshooter]

This is nothing new with the hierarchy of the USPSA . Why would anyone think there would be communication on the subject anymore than there was on classifier information or what they paid for Steel Challenge. All of this is handled behind the scenes by the Good Old Boys. The membership has a right to know what is spent as well as information on subjects that effect the organization. It is OUR organization ( the members) and it is our money changing hands under the table and decisions being made while keeping the members in the dark. It is time for complete disclosure.

[Vespid_Wasp]

It is true that cheating goes on in every sport but when it comes to light something has to be done immediately to curb it. The punishment should be equal to the offence and in this case if proven to be true should the individual(s) involved should be banned from the sport for life.

If this is caused by the value of the prizes available as mentioned in several posts. Separate the matches into two divisions amateur and professional. Put the pros money in the pot and let them shoot for it. If they pay a high entry fee they will self monitor the cheating situation. The amateurs can pay a relative low entry free and shoot for trophies or plaques.

No way! Whether or not we can expect to beat them, the regular joes want an opportunity to have some great runs and see how they measure up against the pros. A few simple RO procedures can mitigate this issue. I think some people are forgetting that the vast majority of people in the shooting sports are honest competitors.

[Avezorak]

Paul...we'll remember. If there's something I can do right now, I would.

The bigger question is...will we have competent candidates?

Are you going to run?

Hopefully everyone will remember all this when the next election cycles through.

This is my concern as well. It appears that new BoD members have to fight an uphill battle. With the number of people involved in Uspsa that are not willing to communicate, it would take replacing most or all of the Uspsa leadership.

Seems about as likely as fixing the US government...

[The Antichrome]

Can someone explain to me why, with an official USPSA investigation (that was not announced on the USPSA page nor disbursed via email to membership or SC's) being conducted, that we have to read about it on the A6 Facebook page?

President appoints someone, we hear about it on FB. Investigator asks for information vie doodie and FB, "result" announced via FB with a resignation from USPSA - no ban, no punishment, just an allowance to slip quietly into the night, and membership is not being informed about it?

Crickets chirping, vast majority of shooters in USPSA remain clueless. As if nothing ever happened. One of the largest scandals to impact our sport and if you don't facebook, chances are you don't hear about it.

I am asking this as a USPSA member, not as a section coordinator because I don't want the issue clouded that in my "official" capacity as an SC I am speaking for the organization.

The A4 Director announced all of the above (with exception of the members resignation) via direct email last week. If your AD didnt disburse the info to his Area membership, then complain directly to them...and vote them out of office.

Are you saying all the ADs got an email about this situation? Are you sure about it?

No thats not what I'm saying at all. I said that the A4D sent an email about it to inform the Area 4 members. Any AD that didnt do something similar, failed in their duties.

[Jaycwebb]

I've been shooting several different match types for a few years. Recently I was thinking about making a competitive run at either USPSA or 3gun.

This is pushing me to 3gun :/

[MarkCO]

I've been shooting several different match types for a few years. Recently I was thinking about making a competitive run at either USPSA or 3gun.

This is pushing me to 3gun :/

A few bad actors should not make your decision for you. Do what YOU want to do and have fun at it. There are some stories about some in 3Gun that makes this look like child's play.

[Jaycwebb]

I've been shooting several different match types for a few years. Recently I was thinking about making a competitive run at either USPSA or 3gun.

This is pushing me to 3gun :/

A few bad actors should not make your decision for you. Do what YOU want to do and have fun at it. There are some stories about some in 3Gun that makes this look like child's play.

It's kind of all of it honestly.

The Cheating, the HQs inablility to deal with it, peoples poor reactions to it.

But you're right