Range command break down, rants, discussion?

[spanky]

I don't even know what to title this thread. Last time this type of thing happened to me at a major match, I didn't make much of an issue of it but it seems as though, as we progress, things aren't getting much better it seems.

The easiest things to fix also seem to be the most common.

1) Range commands

2) Range commands

What have I run into?

The obvious ones are "load and make ready," "shooter, are you ready?" etc.

But the one that gets me is the RO waiting on a response at the "Are you ready" command.

Folks, talk this over with your ROs at your staff meetings. ROing is a volunteer sport and I am nothing but thankful to the men and women who put on matches. However, as fairly new (in the grand scheme of things) CRO, breakdowns like this really make me question what or how we can fix these types of deficiencies.

Thoughts?

[Ty Hamby]

My pet peeve is improper commands as well. "do you understand the COF", "give me a know when ready" and "shooter ready" exist nowhere in any rule book. I frequent 3 separate international/US shootings disciplines each month, (USPSA, ICORE, IDPA) each with their own unique set of commands. I work very hard to always get the right command for the discipline I am officiating. I succeed most of the time.

What is equally as ridiculous is that separate commands for each discipline even exist. If ever there was one thing to make us all more safe and more consistent across the board, this is it. However we all know this will never change.

[squirt]

An RO expecting a verbal or physical response before the "Standby" is one of my biggest pet peeves.

The time between the "Are you ready" and the beep is my time to focus mentally on the stage before jumping to beat the buzzer.

Simply take a lack of negative response as the indication I am ready, as the rule book states.

You bring up a valid point in how common it is to find an RO who changes up the Range Commands. I've seen people DQ due to RO's not following range command procedure and competitors misinterpreting the commands since they aren't following procedure. It's unfair to the competitor and can be unsafe. However, I don't think much will change unless you take initiative at your own club.

Edited April 17, 2014 by squirt

[spanky]

However, I don't think much will change unless you take initiative at your own club.

This thread only started because of my experience at various Level 2+ matches. My local clubs are pretty good about this stuff.

[AJE]

An RO expecting a verbal or physical response before the "Standby" is one of my biggest pet peeves.

That's a bad one while shooting GSSF. I was listening to one guy ( USPSA GM ) that always complained when the RO waited on him to answer them. And almost everyone that I watched did exactly the same thing.

[whitedog]

I have a card Jay gave me when I took the RO class. It has the range commands on it. Before every shoot, over coffee, I look at it. It helps.

[AWLAZS]

The RO waiting or a reply after are you ready bugs me too. I hated getting distracted by that so now I nod my head when I get the are you ready command. I do it without thinking about it. If I am training with a friend I still nod my head when he starts the commands.

What bugs me is when the RO ads words into the commands like "shooter indicates he is ready " prior to the "stand by'

[ktm300]

<RANT>

I got a "do you understand the course of fire", then "load and make ready", then ........ at A6 last week. Again at A6 I heard a certified CRO, that wants to be an RM, do a "slide down hammer down holster". The guy at crono said "take your gun out".

If someone can't get a few simple commands how can they remember all the rules they need to be a good RO?

It is distracting to me because when I CRO a stage if anyone working that stage with me uses the wrong commands they get talked to. If they do it again they can't run shooters again until they can give me the commands correctly a few times in a row.

The squad I shoot with at our local match twice a month gets the correct commands or bugs the RO until they do them correctly. That is what it takes, be nice, be consistent, don't let people do it wrong even at a local.

I learned working the Florida Open how important it is to use the correct commands. So many of the shooters don't speak English so if you walk up and say good morning, they hear "Make Ready" and it goes down hill from there.

If an RO gives me anything but "Make Ready" I turn to them and ask "was that Make Ready?"

</RANT>

[MarkCO]

"NO, please provide another RO"

[EEH]

Where is ,,eye's and ears we are going hot !

[JFlowers]

And yet, I have had shooter's fuss because I moved from "Are you ready" to "Standby" without any positive response. As many of you have said, I am simply expecting a negative response or nothing.

[ktm300]

"NO, please provide another RO"

How about "Can I have an RO that knows the Range Commands Please?"

I try to ignore it when I am shooting as it takes me out of my game. By trying to ignore it, it takes me out of my game. I think it is a no win situation.

[Sarge]

Ran into this more than I wanted to at a recent level II. I think a lot of the staff were maybe IDPA shooters or just simply didn't know the proper commands.

Does it drive me nuts? Not really . But it does bug me a little

[ZackJones]

I've had a few RO's say "striker down" or "striker forward" instead of hammer down but doesn't bother me when they say that. My biggest problem when acting as an RO is remembering to say just "Make Ready" instead of "Load and Make Ready"

[BayouSlide]

I always thought if an RO/CRO didn't care enough to get something as basic as the range commands right, odds are he or she is probably has similar difficulties with the more challenging aspects of the rulebook.

We owe it to the shooters to run it by the book.

A local IDPA club is getting off the ground around here and, learning that I was a USPSA CRO, wanted me to run shooters when I attended their first match. I politely declined, offering instead to watch out for safety issues while keeping score whenever I wasn't shooting.

IDPA has it's own rules and commands and the USPSA command and rules are ingrained at this point...no sense in muddying the waters for either group by having my inflexible mind attempt to jump back and forth between the two.

Curtis

[sfchorn]

I always thought if an RO/CRO didn't care enough to get something as basic as the range commands right, odds are he or she is probably has similar difficulties with the more challenging aspects of the rulebook.

This!

[JakeMartens]

Instead of posting about do you take the time to nicely remind them that there is a specific set of range commands and reason behind it?

A simple, "yeah not sure if you were aware of it but you are not using the correct range commands...... The reason for them is..... Just thought I would give you a friendly reminder...."

[squirt]

And yet, I have had shooter's fuss because I moved from "Are you ready" to "Standby" without any positive response.

USPSA 8.3.2 - “Are You Ready?” – The lack of any negative response from the competitor indicates that he fully understands the requirements of the course of fire and is ready to proceed. If the competitor is not ready at the “Are You Ready?” command, he must indicate to the Range Officer that he is not ready.

IDPA 2.12.3.3.1. After “Load and Make Ready,” the SO will ask the shooter “Are You Ready?” If ready, the shooter should respond verbally, or by obvious nodding of the head, but may also choose to stand ready. If there is no response from the shooter in approximately three (3) seconds the shooter is assumed to be ready.

I think this is where the confusion comes from.

[Sarge]

One should know what game he is playing and what the rules to that game are. Of course some of the confusion comes from other rule sets but it still should not be happening.

[squirt]

One should know what game he is playing and what the rules to that game are. Of course some of the confusion comes from other rule sets but it still should not be happening.

+1

Well said.

[CHA-LEE]

I have had the best luck in resolving these issues at Level 2 or above matches by simply telling the Range Master to handle it. Its really not the shooters place to correct the RO's when they are using the wrong range commands, especially when its your turn to shoot. Getting snippy about it by calling them out on their errors usually only creates bitterness between the RO and the Shooter which can lead to all kinds of other unneeded drama.

I have only had to correct an RO once by stating "Please use the correct range commands so I can handle my firarme without being DQ'ed" during a major match. This was in response to the RO giving me an invalid range command of "Load it up" instead of the "Make Ready" command. Beyond trying to throw me under the bus by using the wrong range commands, I will simply roll with it and then take it up with the RM later on.

All it really comes down to is people being lazy. As a match director myself I have heard every excuse as to why they are not using the correct range commands. I simply tell them that there is no excuse for being too lazy to read and memorize the range commands. Man up and get it done like everyone else has to or DON'T RO. This either snaps them into shape, or they quit ROing which are both valid solutions.

Edited April 17, 2014 by CHA-LEE

[2MoreChains]

I agree, its an education thing and if handled professionally it can resolve a lot of things. No need to be a dick about it.

My mom was a product of catholic school education in the 50's and I think she carried some of those scars for quite a long time. Which is probably why she didn't send me or my sister to the kind ministrations of Sister Mary-Francis and instead took her chances with public schools that didn't use corporal punishment as a learning tool.

"Stoke 'em up bubba" may have its uses, but not at a USPSA match.

[MarkCO]

Hmm, scars and doing it right, or soft and wrong?

[2MoreChains]

Hmm, scars and doing it right, or soft and wrong?

Ha! I don't think we turned out too badly if I do say so myself... besides, mom took care of the corporal punishment herself, and there was plenty of that IIRC.

[afoulk]

Incorrect range commands are a distraction and I agree that the ones in the rulebook should always be used. I avoid "Do you understand the course of fire?", "Nod when you are ready" and "Shooter indicates ready" like the plague.

I absolutely hate being told, "I'm ready," by the shooter who is fidgeting and wringing his hands before I've issued, "Are you ready?". I always respond by waiting until they have assumed the proper start position and issuing the range commands as usual. The message is that the shooter doesn't get to short circuit the range commands.

I frequently SO on Saturday and RO on Sunday, so I sometimes stumble on the words after "If clear..." but that's about it. The CRO on the stage would definitely would receive benefit of running the timer for the rest of the day for attempting to take me to task over small hiccups like that.

As for expecting any specific timing between "Are you ready?" and "Standby", I have no pity for someone who is distracted by these things. Other than the logical constraint of it needing to be long enough to allow for a negative response, no timing is specified. The only timing specified by the rulebook is between "Standby." and the beep. My standard timing between "Are you ready" and "Standby" is for the person who does not respond. They may not respond for a number of reasons, including not hearing the command. If you want to make the time faster, respond in some way. Otherwise, stay focused, wait for the "Standby" and the beep. Don't let your personal peeves affect your own readiness to perform on the stage. Voicing your displeasure at me over my timing will get you nowhere when the problem is really in your head.

Edited April 18, 2014 by afoulk