Gaoler Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 I've heard few shooters ask "is this a shooting match or a track meet?" At a few 3-gun matches as well. No doubt y'gotta have some movement within these types of stages, but often the distances and grades that need to be covered will mean its the more physically fit competitor that will do better regardless of shooting skill. My approach is to try and get into better shape. This might not work for everyone... Hell, it may not work for me!! Not sure if we'll ever come to a perfect balance if physicality and shooting. I will say though... The physical exursion required to shoot some of these stages pales in comparison to the calories burned re setting them...lol. Somebody please.... Come up with a cheap self setting shotgun plate!! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vespid_Wasp Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 (edited) I had a great time at the match and enjoyed all the stages. I don't mind the movement and I would say that the footing may have been iffy on one stage but I think that is unavoidable to some degree on a natural terrain stage. I saw several shooters who finished at and near the top giving their prize table stuff to Jr. shooters. Very classy. Squad 9 was a great group of guys. Thanks to Joe, all the ROs and the stats ladies. I think this might have been the best group of ROs I have ever seen. ROing is hard work and those guys were all professional and personable. Edited April 9, 2013 by Vespid_Wasp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Trapper, really, 9 out of 10! How about ty, jk and brian in the top 10 and of course ty with his TSS gun crushing everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Trapper, really, 9 out of 10! How about ty, jk and brian in the top 10 and of course ty with his TSS gun crushing everyone. Ty running a TSS Vinci? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 No , ty is running a V.M. 26" we built him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchUSMC Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 FWIW... on the stage I worked the 2nd day, stage 15, the best shooters ran it in 18 secs... I looked at the splits on about 50 runs with most people spending about 9 seconds moving from the 1st to the 2nd position. I enjoyed shooting the stage and thought it was a fun little speed shoot with enough movement to hit the reload. But after breaking it down 50% running does seem a little excessive in my mind. If I recall correctly Mr. Hill was about 20% slower than the fastest runs and it wasn't due to his shooting. Where some shooters who move a little faster, had a make up shot or 2 but still made it in that 18 second region. I'm to fat to want to enter footraces, but I did enjoy the challenge of the match. While there was a little bit of movement that seemed like running for the sake of it, ie the stage down by the 3rd archery range, shoot the first 12 and haul 30 yards to the trail. I would much rather have shot this match than a bunch of stand in the box and deliver type stages. For example the stage I worked the first day, stage 9, in the bath house, had you moving quite a long way but with targets to engage all along the way. While some of the more spry shooters could make it down the hill faster, the stage winner won the stage by going 1 for 1 on the slugs and doing it fast. Guys like AP and Zamberlan ran the stage within seconds of each other despite being built very differently and moving at different speeds. At the end of the day we all know what a challenge it is to put together 18 stages and not overlook a few little things. Joe put on a better match this year than last and I will continue to shoot and work it as long as he lets me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Good breakdown, Tyler. And in the words of Forest Gump, "I like to run." Ask me again in 15 more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I think I will need a Stetson, and some chaps as well Jesse, this one kicked my a**! Great job on the match Joe, I look forward to next year, maybe a hover-round disguised as a horse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New4John Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 maybe a hover-round disguised as a horse! Heck yeah! I vote jungle run up the hill from the cave to the bathhouse...only we shoot while driving up the hill on ATV's/RAZRs/Side by side, etc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
238shooter Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I always feel bad when there are scoring issues. However, I think most shooters don't really need the surprise ending for who the winners are. I would suggest to any match director to please post the final results prior to awards. Accidents happen so put that responsibility back on the shooters to verify their times and points. After 30min review, all bets are off. I have seen too many hard working folks bust their butts trying to make the match perfect only to get stung by an honest mistake of the transfer for final results at the end of wonderful match and trying to make it up! It's not the prizes......it is the beating we take traveling home to what the world happened...? That's just what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyGirl Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I found the match to be a solid combination of stand-and-shoots, some moderate movement, and some more physical stages. For someone whose shooting skills aren't on the same level as the Brian Rays and Kurt Millers of the world, I welcomed the opportunity to make up time on the running portions of the stages. Lots of folks complaining about the physical portion of the match, but I would posit that if we want to treat this like a SPORT and not just a game, perhaps we should consider what it takes to be an ATHLETE, not just a casual competitor. I work out every dang day that I'm not at a match, specifically so I can handle my guns more effectively (with my skinny girl arms) and be able to move through the stages quickly without feeling physically crushed at the end of the day. There's more to shooting than just the shooting; it's the thinking; it's the moving. And ALL of that is better when overall physical fitness is higher. Don't get me wrong -- I understand some folks have injuries and whatnot that prevent them from undertaking certain types of physical activity. But as far as I'm concerned, bring on the sprinting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxymajor Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Run and gun! Love it. I hate the stand and shoot stages. That is wasting ammo. Another 10 years it will be IDPA and sporting clays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 (edited) Well now Leftygirl I have considered " what it takes to be an athlete". From days gone by I have played PRCA Rodeo, skied on the Chevy professional bump skiing tour, raced open class motocross and supercross, as well as SCORE off road racing and desert racing in open class bikes. This last weekend I was just 3 1/2 points behind a 35 year old 18 Bravo who is a he'll of a shooter. I do know what it takes to be an athlete! What I don't like is a part of "the course" that doesn't test the skill set that the sport tests. Running 50 yards to shoot is akin to having a big old long groomed straight away in the middle of a mogul field, or a big long paved flat straight road in the middle of a motocross track. Once your bike is RPMed out, it is just sitting on a bike...there is no skill test in it. If you are going to make me run, don't make it just for running sake. Give me something to shoot at! Could you imagine a 8 second Bull ride, where in the middle they give the Bull a 30 second water and feed break while the rider is on it's back?. BORING! Also you have to look at reset, if it is killing the R.O.s and the squad to re-set it it is too much. Edited April 10, 2013 by kurtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxymajor Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I believe it is a big tactical shotgun skill to load on a dead sprint or decide to lose time by load-walking then sprint. I think that is part of the skill set and should be part of the match. Running to an empty gun to get your heart rate up ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Should that be tested on every stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casman Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Well now Leftygirl I have considered " what it takes to be an athlete". From days gone by I have played PRCA Rodeo, skied on the Chevy professional bump skiing tour, raced open class motocross and supercross, as well as SCORE off road racing and desert racing in open class bikes. This last weekend I was just 3 1/2 points behind a 35 year old 18 Bravo who is a he'll of a shooter. I do know what it takes to be an athlete! What I don't like is a part of "the course" that doesn't test the skill set that the sport tests. Running 50 yards to shoot is akin to having a big old long groomed straight away in the middle of a mogul field, or a big long paved flat straight road in the middle of a motocross track. Once your bike is RPMed out, it is just sitting on a bike...there is no skill test in it. If you are going to make me run, don't make it just for running sake. Give me something to shoot at! Could you imagine a 8 second Bull ride, where in the middle they give the Bull a 30 second water and feed break while the rider is on it's back?. BORING! Also you have to look at reset, if it is killing the R.O.s and the squad to re-set it it is too much. However, that same mogul field or 8 second bull ride would probably kill you now, Kurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Well I had a great weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bacus Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I think I can agree with Kurt's point. I shot the match and had a great time. I will agree that there did seem to be running for running's sake, not for testing any skill of the shooter other than foot speed. Stage 15 might be a good example. A long stage set in two bays, it was an awesome stage. Since it was in two bays you shot one bay then ran to the other. Wile moving from one bay to the other you could walk load and run, run and load, run then slow down and load, it was your skill set that determined how you would shoot the stage. So with this nice movement test in the middle of the stage was it really necessary to start in the middle, between the bays? This was movement for the sake of movement, adding nothing to the stage except time. Still I had a great time and will be back next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I thought the running was great but the match was 2-3 months earlier than it should be. Heck only 2-3 guys and gals from the group I shot with last year showed up on the results this year. I hope to see you any month after May next year. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Shotgun loading sure has changed in the past year. Based on the shooters I saw, I would say better than half are using some sort of load 2/quad load equipment. And the only unloaded start stage was won by Mr. Weakhand in Standard and myself loading weakhand in Manual. Of course, Jeff Cramblit is still loading off his armband, and doing it with style to come in 7th in Standard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxymajor Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Shotgun loading sure has changed in the past year. Based on the shooters I saw, I would say better than half are using some sort of load 2/quad load equipment. And the only unloaded start stage was won by Mr. Weakhand in Standard and myself loading weakhand in Manual. Of course, Jeff Cramblit is still loading off his armband, and doing it with style to come in 7th in Standard! Evolution. I loaded strong hand 4 years ago, weak hand 2 years ago, and now "two load". What's next year? I guest "4 load" grab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Casman, it wouldn't kill me, but I would wish I was dead ( for the record I never rode bulls, but Horses are a different story). Jesse, the only running you did over the weekend was to the fridge for another beer, sorry you couldn't make it. Jammie, I know you had a great weekend, My brother saw it all! Good job out there in Colorado Benny you ARE part of Red Neck Tactical! Grab 4 load??? Oh please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressed Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Just want to say thanks to squad 3 and to see our buds to the north made it home ok-- sure glad I did not have 12 hr. drive. Thanks to RO's and Joe. Rockcastle is a great place to shoot!!! see ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJW Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 As this was my first big shotgun-only match, I don't intend to offer any sage advice about what a match should or should not be, but I do have a few personal observations. The first—and most important—is that I enjoyed it immensely, and these are the type of stages I don't really get to shoot anywhere else. As for shooting vs. running, well, my age is somewhere between Kurt and leftygirl. While I am not terribly out of shape, it is a sure thing that nobody will mistake me for Ben Fortin. Even on my best days, nobody will accuse me of being a runner/sprinter. That said, I found that I did pretty well mostly due to (1) stage plan and execution and (2) decent reloading. The open ground sections gave me a chance to balance reloading time vs. running time, and I think it helped me out overall. I was able to use those areas in my stage plan to my advantage, and it certainly wasn't because of my foot speed! (Based on Tyler's comments on Stage 15, I went back and looked at how I did; I seem to have been about 11 seconds from the last shot in the first box to the first shot in the second box, so not bad, I guess, for reloading 8 on the move.) Anyway, that's my own perspective on the match. I can't wait to shoot it again next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I can only count shells one at a time, and no way I can hold 4 and do anything but drop a couple so we'll see what I have to do to keep up loading, Bryan- great shooting, not sure how uyou guys run those trombones so fast, well done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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