Too Old/Slow for IDPA?

[rflumere]

Hi all!

I am 69 years old and I've been shooting IDPA for two seasons now and am classified a MM but....

I can't seem to advance even with a practice session every week with other (better/helpful?) shooters.

I am also doing lots of dry fire with timer and targets at home.

I'm shooting a 40cal P226 that has had the action cleaned up and has the "short reset" trigger.

The ammo is my own reloads that seem be a good compromise on recoil and power factor.

This rig shoots well at all distances, if and only if I take my time with sight picture and follow through.

My accuracy is not terrible, averaging about 30 to 40 points down per match but speed is horrible. (Bottom of the group)

My best draw to first shot (down zero) (with concealment) is right around 2 seconds.

I hesitate to shoot until I can clearly see (and call) each shot.

If I try to crank up the speed I just go all to hell with down 5's and FTN's etc. etc. etc.

I can shoot groups fairly well, but not in a hurry.

I have shooting glasses that have a good front sight prescription on my dominant eye and I see fairly well at

distance with the non-dominant.

How about some tips for speeding up the show from the group?

I seem unable to find that magic speed vs accuracy place.

In some instances I shoot brilliantly and others as though I am locked in slow motion.

Trying harder/faster generally causes me to blow up completely. I have actually bailed out of a couple of matches after

screwing the first stages.

I love the hobby, and I'm hoping that I this isn't the best I can do.

Thanks for any and all encouragement.

Some practice tips from the gurus here???

Bob F.

[jason237m]

Hi all!

I am 69 years old and I've been shooting IDPA for two seasons now and am classified a MM but....

I can't seem to advance even with a practice session every week with other (better/helpful?) shooters.

I am also doing lots of dry fire with timer and targets at home.

I'm shooting a 40cal P226 that has had the action cleaned up and has the "short reset" trigger.

The ammo is my own reloads that seem be a good compromise on recoil and power factor.

This rig shoots well at all distances, if and only if I take my time with sight picture and follow through.

My accuracy is not terrible, averaging about 30 to 40 points down per match but speed is horrible. (Bottom of the group)

My best draw to first shot (down zero) (with concealment) is right around 2 seconds.

I hesitate to shoot until I can clearly see (and call) each shot.

If I try to crank up the speed I just go all to hell with down 5's and FTN's etc. etc. etc.

I can shoot groups fairly well, but not in a hurry.

I have shooting glasses that have a good front sight prescription on my dominant eye and I see fairly well at

distance with the non-dominant.

How about some tips for speeding up the show from the group?

I seem unable to find that magic speed vs accuracy place.

In some instances I shoot brilliantly and others as though I am locked in slow motion.

Trying harder/faster generally causes me to blow up completely. I have actually bailed out of a couple of matches after

screwing the first stages.

I love the hobby, and I'm hoping that I this isn't the best I can do.

Thanks for any and all encouragement.

Some practice tips from the gurus here???

Bob F.

My initial thought would be that if you are 30-40 points down per match there is room to practice your accuracy without worrying about speed. Try setting up tight/long shots you might see in a match and just get comfortable tracking your front site. I'm always told "you can't miss fast enough to win"

[jmorris]

I seem unable to find that magic speed vs accuracy place.

In some instances I shoot brilliantly and others as though I am locked in slow motion.

FWIW I have won more matches when I feel like I am in slow motion than any other way. I have even had other shooters say my best stage times looked slow or at least not as fast as they turned out to be.

[JohnRodriguez]

what type of front sight do you have? On my M&P9L, I went from a red fiber rod to a plain black to play with shooting it in bianchi. I have a real hard time finding the sights and tend to get into the par times on the practical and barricade events with the plain sight. You might try going to a fiber rod to speed up your time to get on the front sight.

[CHARLES D]

Bob. 69 years old!! I hope I am still shooting when I reach that age. My suggestion would be to Have Fun. Being 30 to 40 points down per match won't help your score. I recommend you practice the classifier. It starts out with close shots and ends up far shots. Good luck.

[JD45]

I am friends with IDPA shooters very close to that age, one is older. If you aren't a top Master, a couple of them put people on the trailer early if you take them for granted.

You have to work on speed at practice, hard. For IDPA, develop a good index, and learn how to hose 3-5yd. targets, from cover. After that you should feel more comfortable on 7-8yd. targets.

You don't have to have perfect glasses and spend all day waiting for a crisp sight picture on less than 5yd. targets.

BTW.... find a local top Master that is friendly enough to practice with you a little. They can teach you alot more than reading can.

Edited April 11, 2012 by JD45

[Mike21STI]

You aren't too old at all, we have a guy that shoots with us who is in his mid 60's and is still up near the top of the list for high overall in most matches (i know in IDPA we don't keep track of high overall). Keep shooting and have fun with it.

[Caffeinated]

You mention that you have bailed out of a few matches after doing poorly on the first stage. That leads me to believe that a lot of your problem is mental. Maybe you are too concerned with how you look in front of the other competitors. Perhaps the stress that a timer adds is getting to you.

If you can target shoot well enough and your only having trouble shooting a competition, then my advice is to keep trying and you will get better.

I shoot a weekly move and shoot bowling pin match that regularly has 30+ shooters. There is a group of older shooters that unofficially competes among themselves and their skills have progressed tremendously over the past year.

Keep at it and have fun.

[buckaroo45]

I'm 65 with bad eyes, bad hands and bum feet. Figgered out I was already too old and slow when I found the shooting games about 4 years ago. Doesn't stop me from having a good time, tho. Sometimes, when the moon is right, I can run in the top 50% for Steel Challenge and make some kids grumble about an old man with a revolver. Makes it all worth while. I say "choot till ya can't see the target".

Shooting revolver is somewhat like dating a full figured, less than stunning woman

-it's comfortable

-it will almost never disappoint you

-it's not finicky

-you can feed it nearly anything

-it doesn't care much about OAL

-it's stout, reliable, and durable

-you don't need to clean it much

-you can dryfire it all the time

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Bob,

I am 61. Lots of arthritis from the type of work I do so my foot speed is not great. What I will suggest is this:

Practice 25 yard head shots free style (2 hands) When you can get them all in the head, speed up and do it again. At 15 yards, to center of mass right hand only. Same procedure. As you speed up, make sure you stay down zero. Then go to 10 yards and do weak hand only using the same procedure.

Your practice should be about 200 rounds. You speed up on the next practice session. Once a week if you can. When you have built your accuracy and speed you will find scores will improve.

The other thing I find is practice the classifier. Initially, IDPA set up the classifier as the skills you need to compete in the sport. There are many different aspects in the classifier you need. Fast accurate head shots, shooting on the move, use of cover, and more.

Age will hamper your ability but attitude will hamper it more. Every stage should be treated as a new match. Let a poor performance go. Let a good performance go. Start over on each and every stage with the attitude you will do the best you can. Compete with yourself and no one else. When you decide you can do it, things will start to fall into place.

I shoot a 226 also shooting 130PF loads for IDPA and USPSA Production and 170PF loads for USPSA L10. I like the gun and no matter what else I try, I have always gone back to this. No I have decided this is the best for me.

Good luck, and don't give up.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[Flexmoney]

Bob F.,

I see nothing in your post that is age dependent. It's the same stuff all shooters go through.

[MTSCMike]

Do you practice alone? Either find a competent instructor or find a shooting buddy who shoots like you would like to and buddy up for practice. They can critique your shooting during practice and offer tips for improvement.

Never practice without a goal or plan. Don't try to practice "everything" but instead focus on something each time like accuracy at distance, speed up close, faster reloads, draw and acquire sights for first shot, etc. Fire every practice round with purpose. NEVER PLINK!

Every shooter hits plateaus and has to wait for that switch to flip during a match or practice session when they say "AH HAAA...now I understand what they have been telling me!" And then they move on to that next level.

Don't get frustrated and never quit a match no matter how poorly you start out. Don't let pride keep you from learning from those other shooters at the match. That very next stage might be your "AH HAA" moment...you never know when it will happen.

There is no substitute for rounds down range (with purpose). The very best shooters tend to shoot A LOT!

Edited April 11, 2012 by MTSCMike

[mike l m]

Hey Buddy,

I have been shooting IDPA since '96 in my area. All the posts that you have gotten say "SHOOT THE CLASSIFIER" do it. Shoot with someone who is just alittle better than you to help you. Consider each stage a single stage to shoot. Do not shoot for flat out speed. Shoot for accuracy and the speed will come in time.

Use a timer to create alittle self made pressure on you. Example: Stage 1 String 1-3 2 to the body 1 to the head. Work your draw from 2 seconds to 1.5 with no points down.

Another training tool I use is: at home unload pistol and go into the bathroom or somewhere in the house where you have a mirror, close your eyes, draw and the open your eyes to see where you have lined up. Over time, you will find you are lined up on your sights more right than wrong. It just takes practice.

These things I use, so they may help you. Good Luck and keep shooting. 66 is not old, hope I am still able to do it at that age and older.

Mike

[Not-So-Mad Matt]

I can't seem to advance even with a practice session every week with other (better/helpful?) shooters. I am also doing lots of dry fire with timer and targets at home.

If you're dry-firing a lot, I'm surprised you're not making progress. I can only assume you're missing some little thing, and you're practicing "wrong" somehow.

My accuracy is not terrible, averaging about 30 to 40 points down per match but speed is horrible. (Bottom of the group) My best draw to first shot (down zero) (with concealment) is right around 2 seconds.

How many stages do your local matches have? Because averaging 30 to 40 points down doesn't sound too accurate.

Does your dry-fire practice involve drawing, establishing a good sight picture, and breaking the shot? Has your time improved with practice?

How about some tips for speeding up the show from the group? I seem unable to find that magic speed vs accuracy place.

Practice snapping your eyes to a new target and driving the gun there, so that it arrives with the sights aligned and the trigger prepped.

Trying harder/faster generally causes me to blow up completely. I have actually bailed out of a couple of matches after screwing the first stages.

There's nothing to be gained from bailing after a screw up, unless you think you're dangerous. Hang in there, and don't get discouraged.

At home, find the pace at which the wheels come off, dial it back 10 percent, and practice moving smoothly and accurately. Then, once you've smoothed things out a bit, up the pace again. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.

[Jim Watson]

I'm sure no expert on training and technique, being a 67 year old scratch expert, but can say perseverance is the key.

Trying harder/faster generally causes me to blow up completely. I have actually bailed out of a couple of matches after screwing the first stages.

I have shot matches in which one crash and burn stage comprised half or more of my points down for the day. But I didn't quit.

[blindsqurril]

I'm 67 and just going to start IDPA this season. My knees and hips are showing their age, and if there is a stage where I have to kneel or shoot prone its going to cost me some time. I hope I can do as well as you.

Shoot for you. Do it because its fun. Do it to get out with the guys. Locally everyone has been very supportive and there are lots of us older guys still shooting and having a good time. Stick with it, don't worry about the scores. Hope to see you at a match some day.

[Aglifter]

I only got to do a little bit of it, before work interfered, but setting a par time for draws on my timer helped me get, somewhat, faster. I couldn't keep it (I only spent a couple sessions doing it,) but I got my ~1.8s draws down to a consistent 1.2-1.3 pretty easily, and I was starting to get to 1.08-1.10 on occasion. It involved relearning what I had to see, to be able to shoot at that speed.

Although, it sounds like you're dropping quite a few points.

Of course, you could always switch to open, and USPSA, if the sight focus becomes too hard...

[Punkin Chunker]

Asking if you're "too old/slow for IDPA" is like asking if you're too old/slow for sex. If someone says, "yes, you're too old," are you going to quit?

Sure, stage times might be a little longer, and techniques that work for younger guys might not work for you, but hey . . . get in the game and fight the good fight.

It's like the old bull and the young bull on a hillside.

Young bull says, "Hey, there's a bunch of cattle over there. Let's run down the hill, jump the creek, push over the fence and get us one!"

Old bull says, "Junior, let's walk down the hill, wade the creek, climb through the fence, and get 'em all."

There's guys that shoot action pistol sports at a pace that you could time with a calendar, but you can generally cover both hits on their targets with one paster. That's fine for them, so that's what they do.

The fact that you're out there shooting and willing to work at it makes you an example worth following.

[John Z Sr]

Asking if you're "too old/slow for IDPA" is like asking if you're too old/slow for sex. If someone says, "yes, you're too old," are you going to quit?

Sure, stage times might be a little longer, and techniques that work for younger guys might not work for you, but hey . . . get in the game and fight the good fight.

It's like the old bull and the young bull on a hillside.

Young bull says, "Hey, there's a bunch of cattle over there. Let's run down the hill, jump the creek, push over the fence and get us one!"

Old bull says, "Junior, let's walk down the hill, wade the creek, climb through the fence, and get 'em all."

There's guys that shoot action pistol sports at a pace that you could time with a calendar, but you can generally cover both hits on their targets with one paster. That's fine for them, so that's what they do.

The fact that you're out there shooting and willing to work at it makes you an example worth following.

Well said

[Hi-Power Jack]

My accuracy is not terrible, averaging about 30 to 40 points down per match but speed is horrible.

I can shoot groups fairly well, but not in a hurry.

Trying harder/faster generally causes me to blow up completely. Some practice tips from the gurus here???

Bob, check out www.dottorture.com - shooting this drill

has been a help to me

[Steve Koski]

Bob,

1)

Can you find a place to set up some IDPA targets and shoot a mini-stage on your own? Set up 4 targets at 3, 5, 10, and 15 yards. Shoot it at your normal pace twice. Record time and points down.

Now experiment with different speeds. Say shoot the first target super fast, the second target a bit little slower, etc. and the last target at your normal pace. Did your overall score go up or down?

Try a few different "strategies" and see what works best.

2)

Get some coaching from a good shooter in your area. A skilled shooter can often identify where you are losing time.

3)

Now, a different take...

Frank Rupert (an older shooter out west) is probably well into his 70s and still has fun shooting. And we enjoy having him at the matches.

Blake Huff (an older shooter here in Utah) gets a little worse at every match. But he's still pretty good, and he's having fun right along with the rest of us.

Aint nuthin' wrong with that! At some point just have fun and enjoy the game.

Take care,

Koski

[Joe_Atlanta]

I hesitate to shoot until I can clearly see (and call) each shot. If I try to crank up the speed I just go all to hell with down 5's and FTN's etc. etc. etc.

Same problem here, so I'm delurking (after 6 years) to respond. 99% of my pistol shooting has been precision oriented (11 years of metallic silhouette). If I try to go faster and maintain that precise picture I end up muscling the gun and putting a big chicken jerk on the trigger.

A few things have helped me the most. To break my mental block I had to literally show myself just how much the sights can be misaligned and blurry and still hit a pie plate at 15-20 ft to believe it. Of course as the distance gets longer the picture need to get better, but it still doesn't have to be bullseye perfect to hit a 12" square at 25 yards.

Lots of dry firing (presentations and transitions on an 1/6th scale target) so that the sights are already aligned as they come into my vision with the trigger loading so that the hammer falls as the gun arrives on target (whether or not the sights are perfectly aligned, clearly seen or not). I still work to get my sights aligned and clear but my trigger finger has permission to smoothly break the shot even if the sight picture isn't perfect. With live fire I work mostly on second shots so the same thing applies as I ride the gun down into the target.

There's an adage in bullseye shooting that you have to "accept your wobble area" and still allow the shot to break. For me to hit these big targets quicker I have to accept a distance appropriate sight picture.

good luck,

Joe

[jmbaccolyte]

Bob,

I'm not a guru, nor am I as old as you, but I have been shooting handguns for many years and have noticed that I'm not as fast as I used to be. I suggest:

1) At the seven yard line, it seems that trigger control is more important that sight picture. Practice being smooth with the trigger, with less emphasis on fine tuning the sight picture.

2) Since it's harder for older guys to go really fast, maybe we should work on reducing the points down count at the longer distances.

3) Practice the Classifier (as several of the guys said) and compare your times to the experts (& masters ) and determine what you need to practice. I found that my weak hand only time (Stage 1-String 5) and all of Stage 3 was slower percentagewise compared to the heroes than the rest of my Classifier. You may find you're high speed-low drag on a string or two!

4) Once in a while, practice with someone who shoots better than you, an expert can watch you and give you some really valuable advice on what to practice.

5) And finally, only quality practice will get you to Carnegie Hall and it's going to take a lot of it (as Flex implied).

Hope this helps.

Edited April 28, 2012 by jmbaccolyte

[Bshooter]

I am 63 years old. I have 3 titanium pins in my left hip, results of a shooting match. I have the start of cataracs(sp) and athritis in my hands. I shoot IDPA usually every Monday night. Last week I was beaten by a 20 somthing police officer(He is a great shot). I placed 2nd out of 44 shooters. You don't have to shoot fast, you must shoot accurate, and you must be consistant. Don't try to game stages. Watch the best shooters and see how they shoot the stage. Shoot it that way and shoot it better. I shoot USPSA most of the time but I use IDPA to hone my skills. Slide lock reloads, even tactical reloads. Pulling the trigger makes for good practice.

[Lofty]

I go with Bshooter on the accuracy bit. I am 73 and have been shooting Idpa here in South Africa since it started in 2001.

hen I try to copy the Rob Vogels all the wheels come off, shoot accurately, and sloelyto enjoy the feeling of zero points down.

Ps I have difficulty seeing my front sightnever mind the target at 25m