Joe_Atlanta

Thanks guys, I'll give it a try. Thats another thing I can add to my old codger " why, I" repertoire. You know, "You don't need that fancy expensive stuff, why, I use (fill in the blank)": car polish to clean and lube my cases motor oil to lube my gun floor wax to lube my bullets stair tread tape on my grip reflective tape on my sights

Do you remove it before using the ammo or just shoot as is?

Thanks for taking the time and explaining about the process. Reaming was suggested by other folks and it would be the best option if I was stuck with this bullet and had to shoot it unsized. In general, the throat on my STI is not particularly tight, it's just that the Lee 158 SWC is not a great design (short stubby nose) for semi-autos and the bullet as cast is oversized (.3585-.3595) for the caliber. However, once I resize it to .358, all the case problems went away, even though I was still at a short COL. I was able to seat the bullet out just enough so that the full diameter body section did not get down into the part of the case where it started to thicken and had plenty of room in the case for the tiny powder charge needed to make minor pf. I've just started loading a 160 gr. coated bullet from http://www.blackandbluebullets.com/. With it's standard RN shape and sized to .357 I'm able to seat it much further out to a COL of 1.145. Good looking bullet and you have the options of ordering it sized from .355 to .358 and four different colors. http://www.blackandbluebullets.com/160_gr_FB_RN_NLG_1000ct_Shipping_Included/p1287789_12754283.aspx As far as my quest for a home cast bullet to tumble lube and shoot as cast, I'm probably going to go with a variation on a Ed Harris designed bullet that Accurate Mold makes. The section of the body that is full sized in the case is only .25, with the front band starting at .357 and tapering down. I going to eliminate the big lube grove and specify the body to have TL grooves and a as cast diameter of .358. http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-155D-D.png

About out of my old bottle of Flitz, so I'm interested in this NuFish stuff. Does it provide enough residual lubrication for easy resizing with carbide? I've been using a little spritz of Hornady one shot and wouldn't mind eliminating that step.

Update: Load test with unsized Lee 158 TL SWC. Weight cast from WW:159.5, .3585 +.001 diameter, 1.047 COL, .379 crimp. STI Ranger II with factory spring (recoilmaster light). No chrono data, will compare against AA&A 900fps 147 gr and Blazer 115 in terms of feel and case ejection. 2.2 gr Red Dot failure to eject and a few stove pipes, felt like a .22 2.5 feeds, fires and ejects OK, random failure to lock slide back, feels lighter than AA&A 130pf load 2.7 complete function, maybe a bit firmer than 130pf stuff, ejection pattern similar. 3.0 getting close to Blazer Since the unsized bullets could only be used with a few brands of brass, I resized the remaining bullets to .358 and loaded them with 2.5gr Red Dot, 1.08 COL (read a report on Cast Boolits of a chronoed 158 swc getting 800fps with 2.4 gr Red Dot). Functions fine and accuracy is good, low smoke with Rooster Jacket Tumble Lube (floor wax), cut down a 12 lb commander spring for my Recoilmaster and now slide lock back is 100%. Coming from many years of .45 shooting, I much prefer the heavier bullet in 9mm.

NOTE: Always work up loads by starting LOW. Any change (such as bullet design and/or heavier weight) should be treated very carefully. I used this data as a starting point for experimentation with a 160 gr. SWC. It was of different design and sized diameter and I started by dropping the charge weight by 30% and working up from there. Be conservative when experimenting, it just takes a bit more time and you don't blow up your gun.

I got you. I shouldn't assume anyone who is playing round with an unknown in reloading has enough experience to be extra conservative, so I will try to edit my earlier post to add a warning. I like the feel of the heavier bullet a lot. Coming from 40 odd years of shooting .45 cal 1911s, I have never like the snappiness of a light bullet 9mm.

Always a good idea to drop published data by 10-20% especially if you are using something slightly different. BTW, I found a reference over on Cast Boolits where a guy was getting 800fps out of 2.4 gr of Red Dot and a 158 gr. cast sized .358.

re: rollover prone Sorry if I'm drifting the thread too far, but since we used rollover prone to shoot over low grass and accurately out to 200 meters and beyond, I wondered to myself if we weren't talking about different things, or maybe I had named it wrong. Well, after a little searching, I find what we did is different from the rollover prone you see used to shoot long guns with high cap magazines (kind of looks like sideways fetal position) What I was talking about looks more like a long range rifle position, legs angled a bit to the side, body slightly canted, cheek on arm between bicep and shoulder. I first saw it in an article about antelope hunting and it was touted as being better than flat prone since it supported your head and raised your heart off the ground (which would be beating wildly as you eyed that Boone & Crockett buck). I later saw it well illustrated in Chuck Taylor's classic Combat Handgunning , page 107 (btw, it looks like he has the butt of his 1911 grounded, hard to tell since it has no magwell or extended mag so his hands completely cover the grip). He calls it Chapman rollover prone. Whatever the origin, it was useful when I was shooting in cow pastures and had to get over the short grass. and by slightly varying the amount of rollover I could adjust head and gun height to get on the further targets.

Could the comp be gas cutting the polymer? Maybe a flap developing? Anyway you can recover a fired bullet (shoot into a barrel of water or wet phone books)? From Precision's (coated bullet) website: "Can I use Precision Bullets in my 9mm / 38 Super "Open" pistol? NO—we don’t recommend our bullets for compensated guns. When the bullet passes through the compensator, the gases are diverted and will cut the base of the bullet causing way too much smoke and leading. Stick with JHP’s."

Difference should be negligible, with a little load developement both should be very accurate and function well. I like SWCs and TCs because (for me) they are easier to grab and place during bullet seating.

Rollover prone, it's how I initially shot IHMSA, before going to Creedmoor. Now that I think about it, I'm sure part of my preference for not having the butt grounded comes from an IHMSA rule that no part of the gun can touch the ground (as well as the violence of the way a heavy recoiling pistol reacts when grounded).

Did a lot of bench work back in the day when I shot IHMSA (metallic silhouette) and Cast Bullet Association. I found I got my most consistent results when the butt of the gun was off the bench. This was particularly true of the heavier calibers (10" TC in 30-30). By supporting my wrists, my grip then became the main focus after sights and trigger control. Teaching a new shooter a consistent grip as a fundamental makes sense to me. YMMV. Joe

Old Lyman manual had some data for 158 cast, should give you an idea where to start. I found 2.8 grains of Red Dot to work nicely with a 160 grain cast.

Update: Slugged the throat/ barre of my STI Ranger II, .355/347 groove/land, nice .358 to 355 1/4" taper in the throat with a smooth leade. Found the Blazer to work as almost as well as the FC. Went ahead and sorted a couple hundred cases, came up with 17 head stamps plus various military. No visible bulging, but 11 out of 17 would not fully drop into barrel, averaging about an 1/8th inch of protrusion. Pulled bullets showed heavy swaging of the base band, dropping it from .3585 to below .357. CBC was the worst, base measured .355! A couple of the cases that passed the plonk test still swaged the base heavily, leaving only FC, Blazer, Speer and PMC as usable with the unsized bullet ( a lead bullet base that is under throat size is subject to gas cutting, once that starts you can pretty much count on getting a leaded barrel). Using the mic I checked a bunch of cases and found the thickening of the case usually happens .25 to .33 from the mouth. Depending on manufacturer it tapers from there, some brands getting heavy in a hurry. So I need a bullet that seats no more than .25 inside the case (not counting the bevel base). My next step is to size the bullets to .358 (rear band runs .3585 to .3595 as cast) and see if they can be seated out that far and still chamber. Although I've given up on the unsized bullets, I went ahead did a pressure/function series and will post that as soon as I get a chance. thanks again for all the tips, Joe

Been doing some pressure series with cast bullets in my 9, so I pulled out my old (35 years) RCBS bench mount auto prime only to find that a bit of rust on the primer post spring had cause the spring to weaken and break. A call to RCBS elicited the response: "35 years, those should last at least 40 (chuckle), we'll put it down as premature failure". A few days later two complete (large and small) post assembles arrived free of charge. Joe

Congrats! Keep in mind that it doesn't always feel like that (kind of an out of body experience, an epiphany). Sometimes it just "feels" like you were going slower, sometimes like a "normal" run.In any case, stick with your plan and good luck at Area 2.

Thanks taking the time to make the book suggestions and share the insights from your experience, Rob. I'm reading Brian's book now and it's very helpful. As for my experience and skill level, well, that took some reflection. I'm 62, shot competitively for about 15 years starting in the late 70's (mostly handgun metallic silhouette, some benchrest). Changed careers in the early 90's and didn't have time except for a yearly trip to the range to make sure the old .45 still fired. I started shooting again a couple of years ago, mostly IDPA. I'm kind of a middle of the pack guy who can shoot well when I let myself. Throughout my life I've found that many of the interests that I've pursued have a mental side that ultimately is the most challenging. Whether it's shooting, tennis, golf or playing music. once the mechanical skills are honed to a journeyman degree, the big hurdle to mastery is getting out of your own way and letting it happen. So I've tried a lot of techniques and approaches: visualization, positive affirmations and meditation. All work somewhat, and are generally useful in all that you do. However, nothing works so well for me as quieting my mind and giving it something useful to occupy itself with while the work is getting done. These days I'm concerned more with applying all these things to my life in general, rather than just a sport or an interest. I want to wake up each day to a joyous adventure, greet each moment with open curiosity. I guess it's trite to say "learn to enjoy the journey", but it's also a key.

I've been focusing more on the mental side of shooting for a few months during which I've had a couple of real disaster stages (failure to eject followed by jamming a mag too deep on the tap/rack and getting it stuck hard). After the stage, the adrenaline died and I felt empty, a bit tired and without desire. I then proceeded to shoot my best stage of the match, jumping from my usual mid pack level up into the master class times. A couple of weeks ago I experienced the opposite. Ran the first stage without expectation, saw the sights clearly all the way through and was a little freaked by how misaligned they sometimes were on the close targets. After hearing that I was down 6, my conscious mind stepped in and decided that it needed to take charge and shoot more precisely. Looking at the scores the next day told the real story. A great first run, followed by my usual middling performance.

Thanks. Does the color coding mean anything?

Yeah, I know. Just trying to cut out as much of the donkey work as I can by eliminating the known stinkers.

Thanks for the help, folks. Even though it would make the whole process easier, I don't really want to ream the chamber (it shoots factory defense loads quite well) so I'll have to make the load fit the gun. I'll try the Lee bullet with other headstamps and see how that goes, I do have a pretty good stock of Blazer. I'm not married to that bullet, it would just be very convenient since I already have several hundred cast and access to a mint 6 cavity mold. Looking past initial tests, whatever I end up loading needs to work with the majority of available brass if I cull out the bad actors. Besides CBC, Tula, Ammoload and IMT are there any other I should keep a look out for problems with? How about military headstamps? Any particular heavy walled flavors? thanks, Joe

I'm fooling around with loading some Lee TL158SWC in 9mm that drop into the water bucket at just over .358. I'd like to load them without a whole lot of extra steps and I've found the Federal cases (recommended here: http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/18) fit the unsized bullets fairly well, with the case starting to thicken up just as the bevel base reaches full size. My question (before I sort for headstamp): are there any other thin walled brands I should be sorting for? I've reached the stage where my hands and eyes don't want to do the fine work of this type of measuring, so I would appreciates any help. thanks, Joe

My local club (GADPA) produced a good in depth introduction to IDPA safety rules, range commands and scoring. http://vimeo.com/9278970

Handloads.com list a few loads for 250+ weight bullets.