Joe_Atlanta

Thanks guys, I'll give it a try. Thats another thing I can add to my old codger " why, I" repertoire. You know, "You don't need that fancy expensive stuff, why, I use (fill in the blank)": car polish to clean and lube my cases motor oil to lube my gun floor wax to lube my bullets stair tread tape on my grip reflective tape on my sights

Do you remove it before using the ammo or just shoot as is?

Thanks for taking the time and explaining about the process. Reaming was suggested by other folks and it would be the best option if I was stuck with this bullet and had to shoot it unsized. In general, the throat on my STI is not particularly tight, it's just that the Lee 158 SWC is not a great design (short stubby nose) for semi-autos and the bullet as cast is oversized (.3585-.3595) for the caliber. However, once I resize it to .358, all the case problems went away, even though I was still at a short COL. I was able to seat the bullet out just enough so that the full diameter body section did not get down into the part of the case where it started to thicken and had plenty of room in the case for the tiny powder charge needed to make minor pf. I've just started loading a 160 gr. coated bullet from http://www.blackandbluebullets.com/. With it's standard RN shape and sized to .357 I'm able to seat it much further out to a COL of 1.145. Good looking bullet and you have the options of ordering it sized from .355 to .358 and four different colors. http://www.blackandbluebullets.com/160_gr_FB_RN_NLG_1000ct_Shipping_Included/p1287789_12754283.aspx As far as my quest for a home cast bullet to tumble lube and shoot as cast, I'm probably going to go with a variation on a Ed Harris designed bullet that Accurate Mold makes. The section of the body that is full sized in the case is only .25, with the front band starting at .357 and tapering down. I going to eliminate the big lube grove and specify the body to have TL grooves and a as cast diameter of .358. http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-155D-D.png

About out of my old bottle of Flitz, so I'm interested in this NuFish stuff. Does it provide enough residual lubrication for easy resizing with carbide? I've been using a little spritz of Hornady one shot and wouldn't mind eliminating that step.

Update: Load test with unsized Lee 158 TL SWC. Weight cast from WW:159.5, .3585 +.001 diameter, 1.047 COL, .379 crimp. STI Ranger II with factory spring (recoilmaster light). No chrono data, will compare against AA&A 900fps 147 gr and Blazer 115 in terms of feel and case ejection. 2.2 gr Red Dot failure to eject and a few stove pipes, felt like a .22 2.5 feeds, fires and ejects OK, random failure to lock slide back, feels lighter than AA&A 130pf load 2.7 complete function, maybe a bit firmer than 130pf stuff, ejection pattern similar. 3.0 getting close to Blazer Since the unsized bullets could only be used with a few brands of brass, I resized the remaining bullets to .358 and loaded them with 2.5gr Red Dot, 1.08 COL (read a report on Cast Boolits of a chronoed 158 swc getting 800fps with 2.4 gr Red Dot). Functions fine and accuracy is good, low smoke with Rooster Jacket Tumble Lube (floor wax), cut down a 12 lb commander spring for my Recoilmaster and now slide lock back is 100%. Coming from many years of .45 shooting, I much prefer the heavier bullet in 9mm.

NOTE: Always work up loads by starting LOW. Any change (such as bullet design and/or heavier weight) should be treated very carefully. I used this data as a starting point for experimentation with a 160 gr. SWC. It was of different design and sized diameter and I started by dropping the charge weight by 30% and working up from there. Be conservative when experimenting, it just takes a bit more time and you don't blow up your gun.

I got you. I shouldn't assume anyone who is playing round with an unknown in reloading has enough experience to be extra conservative, so I will try to edit my earlier post to add a warning. I like the feel of the heavier bullet a lot. Coming from 40 odd years of shooting .45 cal 1911s, I have never like the snappiness of a light bullet 9mm.

Always a good idea to drop published data by 10-20% especially if you are using something slightly different. BTW, I found a reference over on Cast Boolits where a guy was getting 800fps out of 2.4 gr of Red Dot and a 158 gr. cast sized .358.

re: rollover prone Sorry if I'm drifting the thread too far, but since we used rollover prone to shoot over low grass and accurately out to 200 meters and beyond, I wondered to myself if we weren't talking about different things, or maybe I had named it wrong. Well, after a little searching, I find what we did is different from the rollover prone you see used to shoot long guns with high cap magazines (kind of looks like sideways fetal position) What I was talking about looks more like a long range rifle position, legs angled a bit to the side, body slightly canted, cheek on arm between bicep and shoulder. I first saw it in an article about antelope hunting and it was touted as being better than flat prone since it supported your head and raised your heart off the ground (which would be beating wildly as you eyed that Boone & Crockett buck). I later saw it well illustrated in Chuck Taylor's classic Combat Handgunning , page 107 (btw, it looks like he has the butt of his 1911 grounded, hard to tell since it has no magwell or extended mag so his hands completely cover the grip). He calls it Chapman rollover prone. Whatever the origin, it was useful when I was shooting in cow pastures and had to get over the short grass. and by slightly varying the amount of rollover I could adjust head and gun height to get on the further targets.

Could the comp be gas cutting the polymer? Maybe a flap developing? Anyway you can recover a fired bullet (shoot into a barrel of water or wet phone books)? From Precision's (coated bullet) website: "Can I use Precision Bullets in my 9mm / 38 Super "Open" pistol? NO—we don’t recommend our bullets for compensated guns. When the bullet passes through the compensator, the gases are diverted and will cut the base of the bullet causing way too much smoke and leading. Stick with JHP’s."

Difference should be negligible, with a little load developement both should be very accurate and function well. I like SWCs and TCs because (for me) they are easier to grab and place during bullet seating.

Rollover prone, it's how I initially shot IHMSA, before going to Creedmoor. Now that I think about it, I'm sure part of my preference for not having the butt grounded comes from an IHMSA rule that no part of the gun can touch the ground (as well as the violence of the way a heavy recoiling pistol reacts when grounded).

Did a lot of bench work back in the day when I shot IHMSA (metallic silhouette) and Cast Bullet Association. I found I got my most consistent results when the butt of the gun was off the bench. This was particularly true of the heavier calibers (10" TC in 30-30). By supporting my wrists, my grip then became the main focus after sights and trigger control. Teaching a new shooter a consistent grip as a fundamental makes sense to me. YMMV. Joe

Old Lyman manual had some data for 158 cast, should give you an idea where to start. I found 2.8 grains of Red Dot to work nicely with a 160 grain cast.

Update: Slugged the throat/ barre of my STI Ranger II, .355/347 groove/land, nice .358 to 355 1/4" taper in the throat with a smooth leade. Found the Blazer to work as almost as well as the FC. Went ahead and sorted a couple hundred cases, came up with 17 head stamps plus various military. No visible bulging, but 11 out of 17 would not fully drop into barrel, averaging about an 1/8th inch of protrusion. Pulled bullets showed heavy swaging of the base band, dropping it from .3585 to below .357. CBC was the worst, base measured .355! A couple of the cases that passed the plonk test still swaged the base heavily, leaving only FC, Blazer, Speer and PMC as usable with the unsized bullet ( a lead bullet base that is under throat size is subject to gas cutting, once that starts you can pretty much count on getting a leaded barrel). Using the mic I checked a bunch of cases and found the thickening of the case usually happens .25 to .33 from the mouth. Depending on manufacturer it tapers from there, some brands getting heavy in a hurry. So I need a bullet that seats no more than .25 inside the case (not counting the bevel base). My next step is to size the bullets to .358 (rear band runs .3585 to .3595 as cast) and see if they can be seated out that far and still chamber. Although I've given up on the unsized bullets, I went ahead did a pressure/function series and will post that as soon as I get a chance. thanks again for all the tips, Joe