Sponsorships?

[mhop]

I wanted to create a thread about sponsorships. This past week i learned alot about sponsorships. What do you guys think about sponsorships?

[Ben Stoeger]

I just posted the below on my site about it:

Due to some recent success I have had in competition, I have been getting a lot of questions from people about sponsorship. It has made me really reflect on what exactly it is that I am in the shooting sports for, and what it is I want to get out of it.

Let me just say right away that I have not picked up any sponsors this winter. I am not pursuing any and I am not planning on it. I have the gear I need and I can afford to shoot on my own without support. I can’t shoot every match I would like to, or even most of them, but I can shoot enough. I can hit all the matches within driving range and then fly to Nationals.. I guess that is all I really need.

After being around some of the upper echelon shooters in the sport, I get the sense that having actual sponsorship is pretty much what marks someone has a top shooter. I see most of these guys get put in the position of taking money from people whose products they aren’t really that interested in. Max has an Open gun with Sig stamped on it for example. I talk with quite a few guys that have shot guns they didn’t even like. I can’t even tell you how many guys on Smith and Wesson’s rather large team told me they were dissatisfied with their M&P pistols. I even watched a serious malfunction take one of these guys out of the running for a Nationals win in 2010.

So… just to clarify… a guy shot a gun because he got paid to and had it screw him over at the National Championships. That sort of thing is very common.

I think the worst thing about sponsorship is that most people get a LOT less money than you might think. 5000 dollars a year is actually quite a lot to get from a gun company these days. While that money does pay for much of your shooting expenses for the year, it wont change your life. I am not saying that I am above selling out… I am saying that I don’t think I should sell myself that cheaply. I certainly wont shop myself around to try and get money from people to try and shill products I don’t believe in. I guess I just don’t have it in me.

If someone does manage to land a sponsorship deal with a company, there really is no telling how long it will last. If that gun company gets a new marketing director, then you are looking for a new sponsor.. and probably changing guns.

All in all, I see sponsorship as a distraction from shooting. I am not concerned with money or titles, just shooting matches and pushing my skill level forward.

If someone that manufactures or sells a product that I already use comes along and wants to help me out, that is cool, but I don’t plan on changing my game plan for a little bit of money. I guess that is why I am not and likely never will be a “pro” shooter.

[Flexmoney]

This past week i learned alot about sponsorships.

What did you learn, generally?

[Sarge]

I see most of these guys get put in the position of taking money from people whose products they aren't really that interested in. Max has an Open gun with Sig stamped on it for example. I talk with quite a few guys that have shot guns they didn't even like. I can't even tell you how many guys on Smith and Wesson's rather large team told me they were dissatisfied with their M&P pistols. I even watched a serious malfunction take one of these guys out of the running for a Nationals win in 2010.

So true! I know first hand a pretty major player who told S&W no thanks when they sent him an M&P to try out. He did not like it and he literally stuck to his guns.

All in all, I see sponsorship as a distraction from shooting.

Agreed. I am only a very small fish in the pool but I got invited to shoot for a company a few years ago. While appreciated the gesture I quickly realized it was not for me. Exactly as you said. I did not believe in all of the products they were pushing and they expected me, us, whoever to use them and tell as many people as possible how good they were. I was more or less living a lie and it bothered me to the point of taking the fun out of shooting matches. And heaven forbid you tell somebody that you like this gun better than that gun or that you did not like shooting moly bullets, you get the picture. The low point came when I expressed my concerns to my "captain" about my lack of shooting ability. He assured me he did not care about that and I was," simply a walking ,talking billboard." That really hit home and drove me away.

If someone that manufactures or sells a product that I already use comes along and wants to help me out, that is cool, but I don't plan on changing my game plan for a little bit of money.

Good for you!

Reminds me of SGT York. Remember in the movie when he came home and a breakfast cereal company wanted to pay him thousands and thousands of dollars to tell everybody how much he liked their cereal. He replied that it just didn't seem right since he had, "never ett any of that there breakfast cereal".

[OperationHitFactor]

I learned that Sig won't sell me a gun with a TruBor barrel and that the customer service line has no idea what I'm talking about.

[ParaGunner]

I just posted the below on my site about it:

Due to some recent success I have had in competition, I have been getting a lot of questions from people about sponsorship. It has made me really reflect on what exactly it is that I am in the shooting sports for, and what it is I want to get out of it.

Let me just say right away that I have not picked up any sponsors this winter. I am not pursuing any and I am not planning on it. I have the gear I need and I can afford to shoot on my own without support. I can’t shoot every match I would like to, or even most of them, but I can shoot enough. I can hit all the matches within driving range and then fly to Nationals.. I guess that is all I really need.

After being around some of the upper echelon shooters in the sport, I get the sense that having actual sponsorship is pretty much what marks someone has a top shooter. I see most of these guys get put in the position of taking money from people whose products they aren’t really that interested in. Max has an Open gun with Sig stamped on it for example. I talk with quite a few guys that have shot guns they didn’t even like. I can’t even tell you how many guys on Smith and Wesson’s rather large team told me they were dissatisfied with their M&P pistols. I even watched a serious malfunction take one of these guys out of the running for a Nationals win in 2010.

So… just to clarify… a guy shot a gun because he got paid to and had it screw him over at the National Championships. That sort of thing is very common.

I think the worst thing about sponsorship is that most people get a LOT less money than you might think. 5000 dollars a year is actually quite a lot to get from a gun company these days. While that money does pay for much of your shooting expenses for the year, it wont change your life. I am not saying that I am above selling out… I am saying that I don’t think I should sell myself that cheaply. I certainly wont shop myself around to try and get money from people to try and shill products I don’t believe in. I guess I just don’t have it in me.

If someone does manage to land a sponsorship deal with a company, there really is no telling how long it will last. If that gun company gets a new marketing director, then you are looking for a new sponsor.. and probably changing guns.

All in all, I see sponsorship as a distraction from shooting. I am not concerned with money or titles, just shooting matches and pushing my skill level forward.

If someone that manufactures or sells a product that I already use comes along and wants to help me out, that is cool, but I don’t plan on changing my game plan for a little bit of money. I guess that is why I am not and likely never will be a “pro” shooter.

Well said Ben.

[shootingchef]

Being sponsored is all about being a walking talking billboard. I am ok with that. So long as you support and believe what your selling. I left a Squad over a disagreement over a logo of a gunsmith I refuse to support. I, like Ben, don't need anything from anybody to play the game I love. However if there is a product or business that I support who wants to support me, I will not turn you down. Credibility is very important.

I know who built the Sig's mentioned above and recommend that builder when I can. Too bad it's not an Infinity.

[beltjones]

I was at the awards presentation for Open/L10 Nats this year when I made an offhand comment to one of my squad mates about how lucky the pro shooters are that they get to do "this stuff" for a living.

"Did you have fun this week?" He asked.

"Yeah!" I said.

"Well those guys aren't here to have fun. They're here working. You want to make this work?"

I think he had a pretty good point.

[Skydiver]

I wanted to create a thread about sponsorships. This past week i learned alot about sponsorships. What do you guys think about sponsorships?

Was this thread inspired by this: http://www.powerfactorshow.com/2012/01/23/episode-57-professional-shooters/ ?

[Seth]

Having been on the motorsports side of it both as a sponsored competitor and a manufacturer, I have one basic reminder... you're entering into a business relationship. As a manufacturer, I'm not paying you to fly the colors, I'm paying you (either in goods, money, or discounts) to SELL MORE PRODUCT.

If you don't intend to fulfill that aspect of the relationship, don't go looking for businesses to make it cheaper for you to shoot.

[Chuck Anderson]

I have a number of "sponsors". None that pay me enough to retire, or even to shoot without putting a ton of my own money in as well. Some of them support me with a bit of product here and there, some with a bit of cash here and there. Again, I'm not making a bunch of money at this. Everyone of my sponsors started out as a product I was already using. I used the product, liked it and don't mind telling people I like it. Beyond that I like my sponsors. I really like Dave Wilcox from Warne Scope Mounts. He's a good guy who stands behind his product and his team. It's easy to represent him. In fact when he called me to ask if they could offer me a sponsorship to wear their logo, I told him it would look funny since I already had shirts coming with their logo on them. Might look weird if I started putting it in multiple spots. Dave had already hooked me up with everything I had ever asked him for, and normally more than I asked for. I genuinely like the sponsors I have.

At various times I have had sponsors where it didn't really work out. Either I found out their product wasn't what I hoped for, or the support wasn't there. Once that relationship sours it's time to get out. Give them their stuff back if need be, or quit using it if you don't like it. You do yourself no good, and you do the sponsor no good if you're using a product you don't believe in, or one that is inferior. I don't care how much Bersa offers me, even if I could retire, I'm not running their gun in competition. It's not worth it.

[carlosa]

I wanted to create a thread about sponsorships. This past week i learned alot about sponsorships. What do you guys think about sponsorships?

Was this thread inspired by this: http://www.powerfactorshow.com/2012/01/23/episode-57-professional-shooters/ ?

man that was about the most absurd conversation i have ever witnessed...

the idea that everyone who wins a major match is a pro...

and that they're only winning because they're pro status is paying for the to shoot full time....

i don't think this guys them selves have a clear definition of a "Pro" shooter..

anyway back on topic..

i think the insight from Ben is great.. thanks for sharing that...

[joseywales]

...However if there is a product or business that I support who wants to support me, I will not turn you down. Credibility is very important.

ok, I'll bite.

i will sponsor the shootingchef of savory specialties, at every match in 2012,

iffffffff shootingchef of savoy specialties will wear the chef hat all day, at every match.

(chef hat as depicted in your avatar...yes, of course, you may wear one in matching infinity blue)

this could be a most entertaining season !

[Jadeslade]

I think Brian Enos addressed this in his book or an old post on this forum and said essentially what Ben said. There are probably only a half dozen full time competition shooting jobs out there that actually pay a living wage. Worldwide. I think Chuck said it the best and the best shooters I know have multiple sponsorships from products they use. More sponsorships means less reliance on one. I think that what I would really like to see is shooting become more entertaining and sponsorships from more than gun companies. Kind of like Winston Cup. Nobody smoked Winstons, but they got a lot of exposure from car racing. Sponsorship should not need to be related to guns or gun gear. Maybe someday that will happen. We have a great sport.

[Chills1994]

why isn't there a Red Bull shooting team?

[JakeMartens]

I wanted to create a thread about sponsorships. This past week i learned alot about sponsorships. What do you guys think about sponsorships?

Was this thread inspired by this: http://www.powerfactorshow.com/2012/01/23/episode-57-professional-shooters/ ?

So was there any point to that rambling mess?

[JakeMartens]

why isn't there a Red Bull shooting team?

Probably because no one has approached them in the right way and sold them on the idea

[Supermoto]

So was there any point to that rambling mess?

It seemed to be a lot of belly aching about pros having an unfair advantage. Oh Noes, some people have it easier...work harder.

[PINMAN44]

Hi guys,

Maybe I can provide you insight that may be helpful in regards to sponsorship.

My name is Robby. I'm a 23 year old USPSA Master and I compete in Steel Challenge, falling steel, and various rim-fire matches.

I currently am fully sponsored by nine companies.

Every product that I receive I absolutely love to death. The main importance that I try to convey to people is that I ask for what I need when I need it. I.E Bullets, powder, replacement parts, a back up gun etc.

Greed is a terrible thing and I have seen it consume people.

Why do I have and seek certain sponsorships?

I'm in college, part time work, and it's not enough to be able to compete in such a competitive sport.

To be the best you must be able to train, especially with equipment that is ultra reliable and that fits your particular needs. This sport is super costly and I feel that it is extremely hard to compete without support.

My relationships with my sponsors are different than that of any other sponsored shooter. I keep in constant contact with them on a weekly basis, providing constant product feedback from myself in addition to customers, match results, product advertisement, and representation at every particular shooting venue possible. So in essence I do more than just wear a logo. My major is in business and marketing and I have had wonderful teachers (my father) who have taught me that integrity, trust, and good relationships are what keep the longevity within business. So, I try to stick to these ideals for sponsorships and life in general. Treat those who treat you excellent...excellent.

I represent companies that have an excellent product, at an affordable price, with EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE. If a company that I represent does not possess these qualities then I'm not interested in representing their product no matter how extravagant the deal. Otherwise, in my mind, you are a sellout.

My job in exchange for full product support, paid match fees, and some companies offer me stipens (which I generally turn down) are the best possible exposure on the local, state, and hopefully soon the national level. My marketability, professionalism, and communication skills are what help me obtain a larger market share for sponsors.

I believe that our juniors are extremely important and I try to get the local ones I know support because I know they are our future. In a dying sport we need all the new talent we can get. These kids are important and I hope everyone realizes the value in supporting them so that they can continue to flourish in what is realistically a small subculture among sports.

Sponsorships for people are important but one must see the value in some of the shooters in our community who aren't GM's and M's. More so than just someone who can shoot, but kids and adults who are good people who need help and possess the potential to go far. The idea that with the right time, practice, and support that one day they could be our future professionals.

I hope this has been helpful insight on what I do as a sponsored shooter. I get what I need so I can keep growing. The bullets are like the gas for my car. I need them to keep driving. I however dont need flashy stuff like Fancy RIMS on my car. Just the necessary means to keep on going.

Thank you

[MikeOKC]

So was there any point to that rambling mess?

It seemed to be a lot of belly aching about pros having an unfair advantage. Oh Noes, some people have it easier...work harder.

lol, I agree 100%

[Thomas H]

Hi guys,

Maybe I can provide you insight that may be helpful in regards to sponsorship.

My name is Robby. I'm a 23 year old USPSA Master and I compete in Steel Challenge, falling steel, and various rim-fire matches.

Hey, Robby. There was a lot of good stuff in what you said, right up until:

I believe that our juniors are extremely important and I try to get the local ones I know support because I know they are our future. In a dying sport we need all the new talent we can get. These kids are important and I hope everyone realizes the value in supporting them so that they can continue to flourish in what is realistically a small subculture among sports.

We are a dying sport? Really? And here I thought we were at an all-time high in number of affiliated clubs, members, and participation in major matches, in addition to having more media exposure, and more people interested in the idea of shooting competitions, than ever before.

Yes, I know this is off-topic---but I'm thinking that as a sponsored shooter who seems to have a good idea of what that means, you might want to more carefully consider your word choice, since I'm thinking calling us a "dying sport" is probably going to negatively impact you, and through you, your sponsors.

Overall, I think Robby has some good points (other than the "dying sport")---but Ben does too. I also think that there is a significant difference between having a couple of logos on your shirt for some materials-levels sponsorship ("I get my bullets for free from these guys") and wearing a team shirt ("I work for these guys"). Mostly, I think there is a significant difference between saying "I use this company's bullets exclusively---they are really consistently accurate in my firearms" and having to say "I work for this company, and EVERYTHING THEY MAKE is just fantastic."

[leas327]

So was there any point to that rambling mess?

It seemed to be a lot of belly aching about pros having an unfair advantage. Oh Noes, some people have it easier...work harder.

While I was watching I thought "I should have 7-9 beers and watch this again so I can make sense of it." But then my wife and kids would wonder why I am yelling at a computer.

[bbbean]

I wanted to create a thread about sponsorships. This past week i learned alot about sponsorships. What do you guys think about sponsorships?

Was this thread inspired by this: http://www.powerfact...ional-shooters/ ?

So was there any point to that rambling mess?

I don't know. I couldn't get past the first several minutes. They've done some informative podcasts in the past. This wasn't one of them.

[Rob Boudrie]

I think the worst thing about sponsorship is that most people get a LOT less money than you might think. 5000 dollars a year is actually quite a lot to get from a gun company these days.

Sponsorship money is icing on the cake. The way big name shooters tend to make a living is to leverage their wins and sponsorships into jobs or training. People like Max Michel, Rob Leatham, Jolie Golob, Randi Rogers, etc. are at the absolute peak of the sport - but they tend to have serious responsibilities as employees of the companies they work for, and do a heck of a lot more than just fly the company flag and win matches. Similarly, some other big names make their money using their reputation as the basis to sell their own products, or offer training services. But, when it comes to getting paid just for the shooting and flag flying, the money is short - and much of the support comes in the form of equipment.

Grandmasterdom does have certain advantages - one of which is that it can be used as the introduction to the hard to penetrate world of gun sales/management/marketing, as it's uncommon to get such a position with a big player in the industry without some sort of credential (Veteran, retired LEO, famous shooter, etc.).

[Carmoney]

Bottom line: You're better off investing the time and effort into making money through your normal work or business. That effort will go much further toward allowing you to afford the costs of competitive shooting than any "sponsorship" angle, and it won't interfere with your enjoyment of the sport.