Ammo Catching @ match

[cas]

I do talk to a lot of new shooters who don't shoot the pistol/division they want for fear of being judged unworthy by more seasoned shooters; I was one of them. I knew I wanted to shoot Open, but didn't want to stroll up to the line with a shiny $3k pistol and tank a classifier, so I shot L10 in an attempt to "earn my stripes".

To hell with that! C class guys are the salt of this sport! Nobody needs to earn their stripes here! That is retarded. Could 99.5% of the guys here even make minimum wage as a " professional shooter " no. (Obvious exception being those in uniform)

Zacky. I'm more impressed with a high C or B that shoots two matches a year, than I am with an M , GM who spends their life doing it.

Max M's 5 second bill drill. Wow. Of course max's probably shot more bill drills already this month than I ever will in my life. lmao but this isn't about me or Max. It's a matter of expectations. I expect someone who shoots a lot to be good. I don't expect someone who doesn't really shoot at all to be good. And when they are, I'm impressed.

[jester121]

My point is they should be worrying more about fundamentals and practicing instead of perfecting the art of the flip and catch.

It's an art? How much practice are you thinking it takes to perfect that art?

As I recall the first time I did a flip/catch was in my basement with dryfire dummy rounds, it took me about 6 repetitions to get it mastered, and I went back to dryfire practice.

[motosapiens]

But you are all entitled to think whatever you wish. If you ever met me you would see just how far off base you really are.

I do wonder why someone would care enough to even notice that some people flip and catch, much less get offended by it.

Regarding the other subject of 'earning ones stripes', I guess I'm one of the bold ones that jumped right into the sport's premier class (production) in my 2nd match. I do know some guys who have shot open for a while that are finally working up the nerve to start competing with practical handguns.

Edited July 7, 2014 by motosapiens

[Sarge]

But you are all entitled to think whatever you wish. If you ever met me you would see just how far off base you really are.

I do wonder why someone would care enough to even notice that some people flip and catch, much less get offended by it.

When I RO I notice damn near everything a shooter does. When they do the flip and catch I really don't care. But my eyes are fixed on the gun and his hands while he is going for the catch. I don't think I have ever DQ'ed anyone for sweeping themselves while doing it but there have certainly been some close calls. Not everybody who does it has it "mastered", so to speak. But again, I really don't care if somebody does it or not and my whole point about new shooters doing it has been grossly misunderstood I guess.

[kneelingatlas]

Regarding the other subject of 'earning ones stripes', I guess I'm one of the bold ones that jumped right into the sport's premier class (production) in my 2nd match. I do know some guys who have shot open for a while that are finally working up the nerve to start competing with practical handguns.

I won't argue with you there, Production is WAAY to hard for me!

[motosapiens]

When I RO I notice damn near everything a shooter does.

I only notice the important stuff. If they pick their nose, blink alot or flip and catch, I don't notice. I see the flip and catch, but afterwards I couldn't tell if you a shooter flipped, dropped or otherwise extracted the round, I can only tell you that he didn't sweep himself. I've never really seen a close call with that either. The noobs I have seen are much more likely to sweep their free hand when holstering.

But whatever, sounds like we misunderstood what you were saying earlier anyway, so it's all cool. Just don't +2 me bro.

Fwiw, I don't flip and catch, but I tried it the other day in practice. It took about 1 try to 'master' it. It seems much safer than letting a round fall down into gravel and hope it doesn't land wrong.

[awfaxis]

If you want to impress me, catch the round in your teeth! Now THAT would be showboating!

[Flexmoney]

Fwiw, I don't flip and catch, but I tried it the other day in practice. It took about 1 try to 'master' it. It seems much safer than letting a round fall down into gravel and hope it doesn't land wrong.

Clearly...you are a natural catcher.

Some aren't. Yet they have a desire to catch the round no matter where it goes. Sometimes it goes in front of the gun, and they chase it. (As Sarge has observed.)

[chaosshooter00]

Having already DQ'ed a Master for sweeping themselves during the "catch", I can tell you it's just a bad habit to get into. I tell all my new shooters not to do it and if they really can't live without that round, I will gladly give them the .50 for a five stage match of lost rounds. Our range chickens are great about getting 95-99% of spent and live ammo back to the brass bin, so you'll probably get the round back anyway. I don't recall ever seeing an actual "Big Dawg" do it on film or at a match. I do take the time to get the "catchers" to completely go through ULSC again after they're done with the Jeter impersonation. Not cool and something I don't want Juniors to emulate, as we all seem to learn by example. My .02

[motosapiens]

I don't recall ever seeing an actual "Big Dawg" do it on film or at a match.

The majority of the supersquad at limited nationals last year did the flip and catch. Heck, I'd guess the majority of shooters overall did it. No one had any trouble. It's not like it's hard to do.

I do take the time to get the "catchers" to completely go through ULSC again after they're done with the Jeter impersonation.

What do you mean 'again'? the flip and catch is only the 'unload' part. Every single shooter at limited nats that I RO'd showed clear properly after the flip and catch unload. No issues at all.

[chaosshooter00]

motosapien, you win I quit.

[steel1212]

13 pages....really?

[jriggs]

^^^^^^ what he said

[motosapiens]

motosapien, you win I quit.

I think that's a good call. Unless you are really really bored at work and it's too hot to go outside, this is not really a subject worth worrying about or discussing.

it's pretty hot outside here today, especially for us northwest types.

[Nimitz]

Moto ... I'm with you ... It's hot down here in Central FL as well. I've also seen countless SuperSquad shooters do it and you'd right, it's only the 'unload part'. After I 'flip' I pull the slide back and present it to the RO until I hear a verbal confirmation from them, at which point I let the slide go, point the gun at the nearest target in front of me and dry fire a perfect A hit, holster and move on. I know I'm safe when I do it, there is nothing illegal about it and I really have never cared what most people think ( it's a military thing I guess) and I will continue to do unless it becomes against the rules. And yes, I think it's cool, just like shuffling poker chips was when I used to play tournaments ....

Edited July 8, 2014 by Nimitz

[motosapiens]

And yes, I think it's cool, just like shuffling poker chips was when I used to play tournaments ....

It's not cool imho, but it's legal, safe, and may be more convenient than dropping live rounds into gravel.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

I've always found it interesting that shooters who would have a heart attack over somebody dropping the slide on an empty chamber of their race guns, think nothing of dropping the slide doing the flip & catch?

I don't think most guys are dropping the slide,, just rack it riding it forward a bit.

[Ultimo-Hombre]

When I RO I notice damn near everything a shooter does.

I only notice the important stuff. If they pick their nose, blink alot or flip and catch, I don't notice. I see the flip and catch, but afterwards I couldn't tell if you a shooter flipped, dropped or otherwise extracted the round, I can only tell you that he didn't sweep himself. I've never really seen a close call with that either. The noobs I have seen are much more likely to sweep their free hand when holstering.

But whatever, sounds like we misunderstood what you were saying earlier anyway, so it's all cool. Just don't +2 me bro.

Fwiw, I don't flip and catch, but I tried it the other day in practice. It took about 1 try to 'master' it. It seems much safer than letting a round fall down into gravel and hope it doesn't land wrong.

Hey, as the reigning production section champion aren't you required to flip and catch now? Edited July 11, 2014 by Ultimo-Hombre

[Moltke]

So in 13 pages of people talking about the inherent risks of flipping rounds out & subsequent detonations, there have been 8 mentioned detonations throughout this thread, all of which are "slow hand over ejection port detonations".

pg 1 - redmanfixit

pg 5 - abn-rgr (seen two)

pg 5 - boy glock

pg 6 - bob dubois (seen two)

pg 7 - zoomy

pg 7 - neomet

I can also account for two that are not mentioned here but are also "slow hand over ejection port detonations", one of which was Todd Jarrett, and the other a junior shooter.

The problem is not jacking the round out quickly, the problem is when people inadvertently pinch a live round on the front of the ejection port and the ejector pushes into the primer. While focused on rolling / catching / dumping a round in their hand, they let pressure off the slide and it pinches the round wrong = boom. Out of battery detonation.

So now I consistently ULSC by dropping the magazine and racking the slide hard, letting that last round fall wherever its going to fall.

[MarkCO]

I have seen 2 in person, know of 2 other local shooters who it happened to and I have worked for attorneys on a few cases where it occurred as well.

[Moltke]

Which circumstance?

Slow hand over ejection port to cause an out of battery detonation?

Or jacking the round out and it blows up mid-air detonation?

[MarkCO]

All I have looked at had strikes on the primer, not from the firing pin. No such thing as a mid-air detonation of a cartridge.

[motosapiens]

All I have looked at had strikes on the primer, not from the firing pin. No such thing as a mid-air detonation of a cartridge.

So do you know the answer to moltke's question about the circumstance? i.e., slow, hand over ejection port, vs fast flip and catch?

[motosapiens]

Hey, as the reigning production section champion aren't you required to flip and catch now?

I took your words to heart and tried it in a match for the first time last weekend. 6 stages, 5 successful catches, one that went a bit forward so I just let it fall rather than get my hand anywhere near in front of the muzzle.

I was afraid my gun was going to blow up, but miraculously I survived.

[MarkCO]

All I have looked at had strikes on the primer, not from the firing pin. No such thing as a mid-air detonation of a cartridge.

So do you know the answer to moltke's question about the circumstance? i.e., slow, hand over ejection port, vs fast flip and catch?

Only one that I know of was someone trying a flip and catch, and the SO got fragged with a few pieces of brass. Two were definitely the shooter trying to catch the round in his left hand with it over the ejection port as the slide was moved to the rear by the left hand. But the others were pulling the slide to the rear without a hand over the ejection port. All were .40 caliber 2011s. I have tried to find an occurrence of a .45 1911/2011 with a primer strike due to unloading but have not been able to. I have heard of one with a 9mm in a SS 1911, but I was not able to examine or verify the primer strike. The only rounds I am aware of with primer ignition due to hitting the ground had Federal primers.