spanky Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Why? RO: Unload and show clear. Shooter does the flip and catch and the slide closes RO: Unload and SHOW CLEAR (emphasis on show clear) Shooter shows clear. Either he does it happily or acts like a snob. Who cares? I can't even hardly believe this thread is still going on. If something that breaks the rules happens, there's a DQ. If not, move on. Disclaimer: I'm a non-flipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 If I were an RO, and gave somebody the "If you are finished, unload and show clear" command and I visually see the shooter eject the mag, rack the slide, and I see a round come zooming out, and the slide goes forward, he has just shown clear. As in, he has just demonstrated that the gun is empty or clear. Yes, the rulebook says "present" and "held open". How long is it to be held open for? Half a second. One second. Three seconds. Until the RO acknowledges that the chamber is empty? All 50 states have CCW now in one form another. We could just run a hot range all the time. Or run a hot bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Too early for cabin fever. What's going on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I find this thread to be quite entertaining, myself (trying to keep a straight face while typing). But then, I could care less how one removes a live round from the chamber of their gun. As long as I am behind them, and they do not break the 180 . . . I'm good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm still trying to figure how can catch my round while strong hand is on the grip, and weak hand holding slide back so RO can verify my empty chamber. Maybe I can catch it in top of a hat like a Hibachi chef? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm still trying to figure how can catch my round while strong hand is on the grip, and weak hand holding slide back so RO can verify my empty chamber. Maybe I can catch it in top of a hat like a Hibachi chef? Nobody said you couldn't reopen the slide :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Ugh.... Let me sit my purse down. The real problem I see with flipping is situational awareness. Some shooters get a little loose when they flip and watch the round instead of the gun. I don't like having to lunge and dive to be able to see if the gun stays safe as in does not point at somebody else or the shooter does not sweep himself trying to catch a stray round. Yes, I will lunge or dive because I am supposed to be able to see the gun at all times. I am not of the opinion that flipping is hazardous because it may detonate a round. Getting it out of the chamber and off of the face of the slide quickly is safer than easing it out and rolling it over into your hand that is covering the port. NOW THAT MAKES ME CRINGE! Flip if you like. Just know that I am watching for you to flub it. Also, in my experience all the flippers I have encountered have reopened the gun for me to look in after doing their magic trick. If they don't I'll ask them to show me clear before proceeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaterHead Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 More entertainment: I RO'd a shooter the other day who was very new. Very poor shooter, doing just about everything wrong, but breaking no rules. The type that knows everything, and wants no advice at all. Nevertheless, shooter had the flip thing down. Perfect. Maybe that's the first thing to be learned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 More entertainment: I RO'd a shooter the other day who was very new. Very poor shooter, doing just about everything wrong, but breaking no rules. The type that knows everything, and wants no advice at all. Nevertheless, shooter had the flip thing down. Perfect. Maybe that's the first thing to be learned? I'll guarantee he practiced that a million times before making his debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Too early for cabin fever. What's going on here? Well, it is kind of cool and cloudy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Too early for cabin fever. What's going on here?Like I said back on page 1, in 2011, just make this thread a sticky.Still haven't seen any of the anti-flippers do a rewrite of 8.3.6 and/or possibly 8.3.7, so as to discourage flipping or make it read something like "the RO must visually confirm an empty chamber and acknowledge it is so before issuing the next command...." Edited October 17, 2013 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Oooh oooh I know....to really show of I'll leave the mag in rack 3 times real fast so I can get 3 rounds in the air and I can juggle them with my left hand while dropping the mag and showing clear with my right....now that is showing off :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Oooh oooh I know....to really show of I'll leave the mag in rack 3 times real fast so I can get 3 rounds in the air and I can juggle them with my left hand while dropping the mag and showing clear with my right....now that is showing off :-)Again, BS. Showing off is limited to open shooters and you, my friend, are no open shooter. (One of only two divisions he isn't a GM in). Painting graffiti on a production gun doesn't make it an open gun. It is just a production gun with graffiti. Tell you what, bottle of bourbon of your choice if I get to witness the juggling trick. Edited October 17, 2013 by latech15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Oooh oooh I know....to really show of I'll leave the mag in rack 3 times real fast so I can get 3 rounds in the air and I can juggle them with my left hand while dropping the mag and showing clear with my right....now that is showing off :-) Now I might have to get into this round toss n catch thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Oooh oooh I know....to really show of I'll leave the mag in rack 3 times real fast so I can get 3 rounds in the air and I can juggle them with my left hand while dropping the mag and showing clear with my right....now that is showing off :-)Again, BS. Showing off is limited to open shooters and you, my friend, are no open shooter. (One of only two divisions he isn't a GM in). Painting graffiti on a production gun doesn't make it an open gun. It is just a production gun with graffiti. Tell you what, bottle of bourbon of your choice if I get to witness the juggling trick. Didn't you see the news...the bourbon of my choice all got stolen. It's gonna be a sad Christmas this year :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Didn't you see the news...the bourbon of my choice all got stolen. It's gonna be a sad Christmas this year :-( I hadn't heard that. Sad news. Luckily...you live in the land of plenty! I was a bit put off, when I was at Rock Castle earlier this year. I saw bottles of stuff from Tennessee and Canada. They are fine and all, but this is Area 5. Drink bourbon, dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 No you don't understand...they stole it all!!! Yes some people are just rude about alcohol etiquette lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 No you don't understand...they stole it all!!! Yes some people are just rude about alcohol etiquette lol Pappy 20 yr old? I say string em up. I was waiting for that stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 No you don't understand...they stole it all!!! Yes some people are just rude about alcohol etiquette lol Pappy 20 yr old?I say string em up. I was waiting for that stuff Yup gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Does USPSA have a rule against flipping your ammo? Then the flipping will continue. Period. No one is going to tell Eric G, Max,Blake, Manny, Smitty or any top shooter to stop you cant do that while I'm the RO. Lol Well they should, its one of the deadliest things in the sport. Thats why I don't. That and I have a wierd ejection pattern on my XDm and can't. This is sarcasm.... I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm still trying to figure how can catch my round while strong hand is on the grip, and weak hand holding slide back so RO can verify my empty chamber. Maybe I can catch it in top of a hat like a Hibachi chef? That would be awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 How is that any different than it getting ejected out and hittin a sharp rock? Let's see -- do I want a round to detonate near my ankle, or near my hand and noggin, which contains eyes, eardrums, mouth and nose, brain, etc.? Pretty sure I'd prefer detonation at ground level.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 i know a certain CRO who when encountering this phenomena, always makes the shooter go through the ULASC a second time, in slo-mo, just to piss them off. friggin' hilarious. I doubt I'm the CRO you are referring to, however, if the competitor does not allow me time to see an empty chamber, let's do it again. I'm not trying to piss off anyone. Just trying to do my job. And yes it has pissed off a few. Bill Let me ask you something. If they are one of the people that race to the holster and they have already hammered down and holstered, what is the point of going through the motions again other than to "teach them a lesson"? It drives me nuts also as a RO and I'll inform the shooter that if they show the RO a empty chamber it might save them some grieve down the road. To me it's simple -- I need to see an empty chamber. Why? Because it's my responsibility to ensure the gun is clear. Why do I not believe it's clear when it doesn't go bang when the shooter drops the hammer? Two reasons -- I've seen rounds where the first hammer down only seated a high primer and I've had shooters doing it quickly with guns utilizing the decocker, rather than the hammer. I'd simply like to keep my friends safe on the range...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I understand you want to see a empty chamber, which is good for everybody. I guess I don't run into that as I show the RO afterwards. And you and I would not have a problem...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Yes, the rulebook says "present" and "held open". How long is it to be held open for? Half a second. One second. Three seconds. Until the RO acknowledges that the chamber is empty? The answer to that question is in the rulebook. Hold it open until you get the next command -- what's so hard about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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