sperman Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Sorry. I completely missed the sarcasm. Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomy Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 For what it's worth there was an incident this past weekend at Rio Salado. Someone tried to catch his round and it fell back in and was set off by the ejector causing significant injury to his hand and lots of paper work for the club. I was not there and we can all make our guess on how it happend, but I am going to take a closer look at what I am doing and if it is worth the trouble trying to save a couple of rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 How is that any different than it getting ejected out and hittin a sharp rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 For what it's worth there was an incident this past weekend at Rio Salado. Someone tried to catch his round and it fell back in and was set off by the ejector causing significant injury to his hand and lots of paper work for the club. I was not there and we can all make our guess on how it happend, but I am going to take a closer look at what I am doing and if it is worth the trouble trying to save a couple of rounds. Fell back in, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 For what it's worth there was an incident this past weekend at Rio Salado. Someone tried to catch his round and it fell back in and was set off by the ejector causing significant injury to his hand and lots of paper work for the club. I was not there and we can all make our guess on how it happend, but I am going to take a closer look at what I am doing and if it is worth the trouble trying to save a couple of rounds. Fell back in, huh? Yeah, what's so hard to believe about that? He turned the gun sideways, racked the slide, the round flies up 16-20 inches, he missed it when he tried to catch it, the slide was still open somehow, and the round fell back into the ejection port, shooter then puts his hand over the ejection port before the detonation, round lands primer first in the ejector, detonating......what's not to believe here? There is basically no way to have a round damage your hand during a flip. Your strong hand is on the grip. Your weak hand is on the racker. Because flipping is showing off, and we all know only open shooters show off, and only they use rackers because they like hanging things off their guns......to show off more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomy Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 How is that any different than it getting ejected out and hittin a sharp rock? Like I said, for what its worth.I do it myself. This was info past on to me from Pete Cartensen, Web Master for Rio Salado Sportsmans Club as part of the Tuesday night steel match results. My guess is he racked the slide with the gun held sideways and the weak hand bacwards covering the ejection port. The live round never made it out, hitting his hand and falling back into the chamber. He then released the slide and somehow the bullet was in a position to have the ejector hit the primer. Obviously something went very wrong. And most likely the method he used to eject and catch the live round. I just think that when a accident happens we should take a look at how it happened and if it can be avoided. The game we play has risks just like most things in life. We have to accept the good with the bad and get on with it the best we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 i know a certain CRO who when encountering this phenomena, always makes the shooter go through the ULASC a second time, in slo-mo, just to piss them off. friggin' hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I'd ask for him EVERY time I shoot. It does not piss me off at all and I can give as big of a you know what eating grin back at them as they shoot my way. If there is not a rule preventing it, shove off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RammerJammer Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 i know a certain CRO who when encountering this phenomena, always makes the shooter go through the ULASC a second time, in slo-mo, just to piss them off. friggin' hilarious. I know a lot of jerks too. If the slide is locked and a clear chamber is shown then he has no grounds for it. I like to harass open shooters because they are showoffs and 9mm is incredibly dangerous for no reason. It amazes me that in what seems like a pretty good community of people everyone suddenly acts like a bunch of brownshirts over someone catching a round instead of letting it hit the ground. Excuses run from it will kill people to just for kicks. pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 i know a certain CRO who when encountering this phenomena, always makes the shooter go through the ULASC a second time, in slo-mo, just to piss them off. friggin' hilarious. I doubt I'm the CRO you are referring to, however, if the competitor does not allow me time to see an empty chamber, let's do it again. I'm not trying to piss off anyone. Just trying to do my job. And yes it has pissed off a few. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 For what it's worth there was an incident this past weekend at Rio Salado. Someone tried to catch his round and it fell back in and was set off by the ejector causing significant injury to his hand and lots of paper work for the club. I was not there and we can all make our guess on how it happend, but I am going to take a closer look at what I am doing and if it is worth the trouble trying to save a couple of rounds. I didn't witness but got the email. The comment as I read it was about people covering the ejection port with their hand as they remove the round. I don't believe this is the dreaded flip but rather where you see the shooter cover the ejection port with their weak hand as they slowly rack the slide so the round theoretically rolls out into their hand. I've seen someone frag their hand with this technique before. Did you see the event? Pete's note indicates it actually happened up on the main range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 i know a certain CRO who when encountering this phenomena, always makes the shooter go through the ULASC a second time, in slo-mo, just to piss them off. friggin' hilarious. I doubt I'm the CRO you are referring to, however, if the competitor does not allow me time to see an empty chamber, let's do it again. I'm not trying to piss off anyone. Just trying to do my job. And yes it has pissed off a few. Bill Let me ask you something. If they are one of the people that race to the holster and they have already hammered down and holstered, what is the point of going through the motions again other than to "teach them a lesson"? It drives me nuts also as a RO and I'll inform the shooter that if they show the RO a empty chamber it might save them some grieve down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 i know a certain CRO who when encountering this phenomena, always makes the shooter go through the ULASC a second time, in slo-mo, just to piss them off. friggin' hilarious. There is another side to that coin. How long do they want to sit there with me holding my slide back giving it a reeeeeeal goooooood looooooook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) i know a certain CRO who when encountering this phenomena, always makes the shooter go through the ULASC a second time, in slo-mo, just to piss them off. friggin' hilarious. I doubt I'm the CRO you are referring to, however, if the competitor does not allow me time to see an empty chamber, let's do it again. I'm not trying to piss off anyone. Just trying to do my job. And yes it has pissed off a few. Bill Let me ask you something. If they are one of the people that race to the holster and they have already hammered down and holstered, what is the point of going through the motions again other than to "teach them a lesson"? It drives me nuts also as a RO and I'll inform the shooter that if they show the RO a empty chamber it might save them some grieve down the road. I try to not be a jerk about it, but when it comes to safety, I go by the book. Per Rule 8.3.6 the competitor MUST lower his handgun and present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the magazine removed, slide locked or held open, and chamber empty. I have had the occasional "cool" shooter get his gun to the holster before the commands are given but as long as I "SAW" a gun with the magazine removed and an empty chamber, I will recite the commands but not require the shooter to pull out the gun and repeat the hammer drop. If on ULSC they catch a bullet, drop the hammer and holster before they allowed me to inspect, I will not give the "Range is Clear". We will start over until I see the empty magazine well and empty chamber. Since there is no rule against it, I don't give them crap about catching bullets. 99.99% of the bullet catching competitors do not give me crap about me getting the chance to inspect that chamber. The 0.01% (actually just one so far) that decided he was above the rules and did not want his gun inspected decided to argue the point. I listened to him patiently for well over a minute. When he was finished, I advised that I would not issue the "Range is Clear" until I saw that empty chamber. He finally complied and high tailed it to the RM to complain. The RM advised him that he was free to leave at any time but he will comply with all of the rules. If the shooter does not wish to comply with 8.3.6, he can campaign to get the rule changed or he can find a new sport. Bill Edited October 17, 2013 by Flatland Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I understand you want to see a empty chamber, which is good for everybody. I guess I don't run into that as I show the RO afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leas327 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 They have their routines as competitors for getting ready and finishing stages. I have my routine for making sure the rules are followed and guns are handled safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Oh, brother... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leas327 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) I'm watching that movie right now too. I love bluegrass music. Edited October 17, 2013 by leas327 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The business card Gary Stevens handed to us at an RO class in 2007 had the range commands on the back: "If you are finished, unload and show clear" If clear, hammer down, holster." Does everything at a USPSA match or here on the forums have to be a clash of the egos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leas327 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Gary was still handing out those cards when I took his class. I have no problem asking a guy to ULSC again if I don't actually see clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 So is it the round flipping you guys don't like or are there people not showing clear after they flip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 So is it the round flipping you guys don't like or are there people not showing clear after they flip? No rule prohibits bullet flipping. The rules do require showing clear to the RO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 This thread just keeps going and going!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leas327 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 So is it the round flipping you guys don't like or are there people not showing clear after they flip? I have no problem with the flip catch. I love it for what it is and regularly do it myself. Flip catchers deserve equal rights to non flip catchers. When I am on the timer I do want to see clear though. Other guys have their own reasons for what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) It depends on what your definition of "is" is??? Is the range command "show me an empty chamber!" ? See, where I passed the range lawyer bar exam, showing clear doesn't exactly equal mean the same as an empty chamber. But dispaying an empty chamber is one method of showing clear. It is kind of like your old high school geometry days: all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. I do wish all you anti-flipping RO's would just get on with it: petition the BoD to change the range command to "show me an empty chamber. Trying to relive their glory days as a hall pass monitor gets old. Edited October 17, 2013 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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