Airline Travel With Guns

[DJPoLo]

After some apprehension about flying with guns for the first time, it turned into a nonevent. United Airlines had a big poster at check-in describing what to expect for those of us traveling with firearms. The ticket agent asked to see the pistol after I declared an unloaded gun to him. I had taken the advise of those who posted here on this subject and put a big sticker on both sides of the gun case that read: "Federal law requires this case remain locked. Prior to TSA inspection, contact (my name) at (my cel number)". The two United agents behind the counter said that the labeling was a really good idea, in their opinions.

So I open the case and show him the unloaded gun. He was fascinated by it, never having seen a race gun before. I explained a bit about it and we chatted for about five minutes (much to the chagrin of the long line of passengers behind me). He told me that his son was LE and that he liked shooting with him a lot. I explained USPSA/IPSC briefly and noted that we do all this right here in Austin. He wanted to know if I had a web site he could explore so I gave him ALSPPC’s web address and he said he hoped to come out to a match sometime. Pretty cool... Signed the declaration tag and moved along to TSA.

TSA had the big-ass xray equipment set up just past check-in (thankfully) so I zip-tied my luggage closed and declared the gun to the TSA. He asked if I had declared it at check-in and when I answered in the affirmative, he just placed it into the big, white machine and I moved on to the gate.

Got my bags in Boise (after changing planes in Denver) and the bag with the gun still had its zip ties intact. My other bag had been opened by TSA but if they hadn't messed with anything that I could tell.

[EricW]

I think I've only had two minor "incidents" and both worked out. It sounds like TSA/Homeland Security is finally getting it's sh*t together.

[ipsc1]

Next month will be my first trip in the states since 9/11. While I'm aware that bags should not be locked, what other changes have there been. I've always taped my ammo boxes up really good to avoid spillages, is that a bad thing now? I like the idea of the sticker, any other helpful hints?

ipsc1

[shred]

Taping ammo boxes is still a good idea-- they'll retape them (at least they did in Phoenix). I have noticed that they seem more likely to check on ammo if it's all in one place in the luggage. Dunno why. Somebody said something about the powder density, but I'm not sure I believe it.

[DJPoLo]

Taping ammo boxes is still a good idea-- they'll retape them (at least they did in Phoenix).  I have noticed that they seem more likely to check on ammo if it's all in one place in the luggage.  Dunno why.  Somebody said something about the powder density, but I'm not sure I believe it.

I placed three ammo boxes, one in each corner of my luggage. I had taped them closed with 2" packing tape, just to be sure. I have no idea what these airlines goons do to our bags, but one of the clasps on my Dillon ammo boxes was cracked off. And this was on the unopended bag!

[blkbrd]

I have no idea what these airlines goons do to our bags, but one of the clasps on my Dillon ammo boxes was cracked off. And this was on the unopended bag!

First of most of these guys are not "goons" they make better money than the TSA crowd and work a whole lot harder in worse conditions, not to mention they had better background checks.

To understand what a bag goes through first throw it down a flight of stairs 10 times, then toss in the back of a pickup and drive through a snowstorm, throw it across the driveway a few times and add being opened up by someone that just doesn't give a dam and you have a good idea of a bags daily life.

[Flexmoney]

To understand what a bag goes through first throw it down a flight of stairs 10 times, then toss in the back of a pickup and drive through a snowstorm, throw it across the driveway a few times and add being opened up by someone that just doesn't give a dam and you have a good idea of a bags daily life.

Sounds like some of my old Saturday nights.

[kimel]

I have noticed that my Dillon ammo boxes seem to be wayyy more fragile when cold than the other plastic boxes I have. I have busted the hinges on a couple boxes just opening them up in the cold.

Since baggage tends to ride around in the unheated compartment of the plane it could be that the box was pretty fragile and then got the down 10 flights of stairs treatment.

Given DJPolo's experience maybe a brocure or three inside the gun case to hand to curious folks might be a good idea.

[Mistral404]

I still travel alot with my pistol, as recently as Monday. I am doing Southwest Airlines again. They are the best trained folks.

After the agent sights the gun, verifies it is empty, I place the gun in a smaller locked STI case. The ammo was in dillon boxes untaped. I will probably tape them in the future based on the above advice.

Now I also lock the outside of the bag with a small combo lock. Instead of waiting around while it passes TSA, I write the three number combo on the tracking ticket. That way the agent can show it to the TSA representative. So far, now has opened the bag.

[Dalmas]

To understand what a bag goes through first throw it down a flight of stairs 10 times, then toss in the back of a pickup and drive through a snowstorm, throw it across the driveway a few times and add being opened up by someone that just doesn't give a dam and you have a good idea of a bags daily life.

With over 17 years in different airports this is my conclusion on handling labels.. like "fragile" "handle with care" etc.. Take is as useful hints.

"No label" - It can be throw as far as you can without hurting your own back.

"Fragile" 1 - preprinted on everything therefor overlooked, handled like no label

"Fragile" 2 - What french city is that? hate france! lets kick it an extra time.

"Handle with care" - My care or your care...don't know yours so it will be mine...i.e handled like a gentle "no label".

"glas" - this one works to some extent - it will be pushed, showed and trown but "gently".

The only way is to pack you stuff so it can handle blkbrd's excellent description.

[DyNo!]

To understand what a bag goes through first throw it down a flight of stairs 10 times, then toss in the back of a pickup and drive through a snowstorm, throw it across the driveway a few times and add being opened up by someone that just doesn't give a dam and you have a good idea of a bags daily life.

With over 17 years in different airports this is my conclusion on handling labels.. like "fragile" "handle with care" etc.. Take is as useful hints.

"No label" - It can be throw as far as you can without hurting your own back.

"Fragile" 1 - preprinted on everything therefor overlooked, handled like no label

"Fragile" 2 - What french city is that? hate france! lets kick it an extra time.

"Handle with care" - My care or your care...don't know yours so it will be mine...i.e handled like a gentle "no label".

"glas" - this one works to some extent - it will be pushed, showed and trown but "gently".

The only way is to pack you stuff so it can handle blkbrd's excellent description.

[CocoBolo]

Ok, my wife works for TSA so when we travel I have an expert right next to me. You must delcare to airline and they should provide you with an unloaded label to fill out, and place into each case containing a FireArm, dont' use the word gun. When you take the bags containing the FireArms and Ammo to the TSA you are not required to declare them but my best adviser told me to do that, and when I did they would tell me to standby and they would let me know when they were cleared.

I prefer to take non stop flights and definatley don't change airlines, this cut the number of times the FireArm is handled.

Now about taping up the ammo cases. At Regan Returning from Area 8 Championship, I watched the TSA agent take 200 40 cal bullets out of the Dillion Cases one at a time and inspect each and every one carefully. When he got done with that, he found my .223 ammo which was military marked and in bandoliers, and I'm talking a few too many, he asked is this authorized packing, I told him it was approved by the Military and he was ok with that.

I've used both locks and Combo's and they have been TSA approved but they always come ask me for the key or combo.

You can get some insane comments from the Airline Agents when you open the case, Oooh that thing is staright out of Star Wars, or Very Professional, oooh my that looks extremely frightning etc. This is a good time to not to make any snide comments.

[StephensOutdoors]

Ok, my wife works for TSA so when we travel I have an expert right next to me. You must delcare to airline and they should provide you with an unloaded label to fill out, and place into each case containing a FireArm, dont' use the word gun. When you take the bags containing the FireArms and Ammo to the TSA you are not required to declare them but my best adviser told me to do that, and when I did they would tell me to standby and they would let me know when they were cleared.

I prefer to take non stop flights and definatley don't change airlines, this cut the number of times the FireArm is handled.

Now about taping up the ammo cases. At Regan Returning from Area 8 Championship, I watched the TSA agent take 200 40 cal bullets out of the Dillion Cases one at a time and inspect each and every one carefully. When he got done with that, he found my .223 ammo which was military marked and in bandoliers, and I'm talking a few too many, he asked is this authorized packing, I told him it was approved by the Military and he was ok with that.

I've used both locks and Combo's and they have been TSA approved but they always come ask me for the key or combo.

You can get some insane comments from the Airline Agents when you open the case, Oooh that thing is staright out of Star Wars, or Very Professional, oooh my that looks extremely frightning etc. This is a good time to not to make any snide comments.

This is some great advice. I'm not the expert on this & I've only done it a couple of times, but my $.02 is to talk to & investigate with the airline you are flying with & fully understand their rules as well as TSA rules to the best of your knowledge before you fly. Many of the airline agents do not know the rules, but are willing to accept them if you tell them, "I do this all the time" and here are your rules (print them out and take them with you). First time I flew with my pistols I go to the ticket counter and the nice lady behind the SouthWest counter in BWI wants me to take my pistols out and show her that they are unloaded ... I said, "I don't think so lady"

[sperman]

AFAIK, you are required to show the pistol is unloaded. I treat the ticket counter like the Chrono. I don't touch the gun until they ask me to. One of the first times I flew I picked the gun up to show an empty chamber and the ticket agent literally ran away screaming.

[jarozzy]

I like to call the airports that I will be going to and ask them a lot of questions even ones that I know. I even give them a call when I am about a hour away to let them know that I will have a firearm, I dint want them to be surprised.

[aztecdriver]

AFAIK, you are required to show the pistol is unloaded. I treat the ticket counter like the Chrono. I don't touch the gun until they ask me to. One of the first times I flew I picked the gun up to show an empty chamber and the ticket agent literally ran away screaming.

+1 Last year was my first time through the airport with them. My case/locking mechanism is elaborate - they basically have to steal the suitcase whole or destroy it to get the pelican case out. After I went through the unlocking - I asked her "do you want me to show you they are clear?" after a tenative yes, i slightly picked each one out of the case and watched as I was pulling the slide back - she was dancing away,peaking just enough to see -- with one eye. The airline themselves *should* verify they are unloaded - as they are giving you the declaration tag - and I believe they are confirming your assertion for the TSA. Though - I'm pretty sure coming back from Las Vegas, this wasn't the case. I just had to wait an hour to be certain that TSA was fine and I could go to my gate.

[blaster113]

At every single airport I've been to where I had to check in luggage with my gun and ammo its been a little different procedure with the agent and TSA. I love it when they swab the inside of the suitcase with the explosive detection wipes when my gun case and rig were just placed in there. No real hassles though. Ive been using factory ammo boxes (50 count) to haul my ammo so there's no question if the packaging is factory approved. When I'm done with the boxes they go in the trash, no worries about taking back empty boxes.

[Chuck Anderson]

You can do all the checking and calling you want. You can fly the most gun friendly airlines out of the most gun friendly cities. It's still a crap shoot who's gonna be behind the counter. The last time I flew I didn't even open the case. Just put the tag in the suitcase with my locking hardcase. My buddy traveling with me was checking in at the counter next to me. He had to pull his out and show them empty. Just depends on the agent and their basis of knowledge. Seems like the ones who know the least about guns are the ones who want you to pull them out at the counter.

The CTX is accurate enough to determine if the gun is loaded or not. If they can't tell they open the case. I normally don't even have my suitcases opened. And I travel a lot with a lot of guns. Just be prepared for any level of shenanigans, show up early and do what they say. You're not going to win that argument.

[CZinSC]

Just be prepared for any level of shenanigans

Sorry for the thread drift....but I couldn't resist......

Shenanigans

[peterdaws]

I have just completed a trip to the US which invoved two international flights and 5 domestic ones travelling with a handgun and ammo. Generally uneventful but little differences in the handling aroound the country.

I had external locks on my bags and on the hard cases which contained gun and ammo which were the TSA approved dual key type. Was later told that the gun case ones should have been "my key only" but it didn't bother anyone.

Of the six stateside check ins, one checking clerk wanted the gun box opened before she issued the label, one taped the label to the outside of the gun case and the other four told me to just to leave it loose in my luggage bag. (If the label has any relevence, then attaching it to the gunbox seems the most sensible approach.)

As to TSA I was advised on the first leg to hang around for 10 minutes after my bags go in in case they needed to talk to me which I did. On the first leg (from LAX) I assumed that TSA would inspect the gun so left the padlocks unfastened. (On arrival from Australia, TSA had logged the details of my firearm on the computer so I had assumed that they would check it at every flight but of course they didn't) X-ray machines were passenger side of the check-in counter. After bags went through without being opened, I asked to be able to secure the gun case. They looked a bit miffed but allowed me to do it then put the bag back through the X-ray again because I had handled it. No problem. Other internal flights the bags just disappered into the system without me seeing TSA. Miami they had an X-ray machine seperate from the normal system which we took our luggage to after check-in. TSA put the bags through and gave you a nod of dismissal. Back at LAX for the international departure, after check in I had to take my bags to where oversize baggage is handled (same system here in Australia) There TSA had a sniffer but no X-ray. They opened all bags and swabbed them inside. They presumably could search them at their discretion. You could watch this happening if you wanted. There TSA keys wouldn't open my lock - turned out the one they needed was broken and they were going to head off somewhere to get another key but I just gave them my combination. Saw them clip someones lock who didn't have a TSA lock and didn't hang around.

Generally I think the systems were O.K., but I got pretty frustrated by the personal search side. With their full body scanners they wanted everything out of your pockets including non magnetic stuff like cash and my wallet that only contained credit cards and business cards, as well as shoes and belt off. As I had the wallet in one pocket, Aussie dollars in another, large US bills in other and small US bills in the fourth I "spat the dummy" and opted for a pat down. Everywhere else in the World I have flown to I could pass the scanners wearing the same shoes, belt etc no problems.

A bit long winded but while in the US I met quite few shooters that thought flying with guns was well nigh impossible. So if they let Aliens from the planet Oz do it then you should have no problems.

Peter

[g.willikers]

ON the other hand, why fly, if it can be avoided.

We recently did a 2500 mile roundtrip by car, and it only took twice as long as flying.

The door to door time for the flight, and all the additional exertions, would have been eight hours each way and we drove it in 16 hours, each way.

Not a huge difference in the real world.

And we had a lot more fun, less hassles, greater comfort, and no worries about lost, damaged or stolen luggage.

No threat of possible canceled flights, leaving us in a strange town, with all those complications.

No airline or gummint restrictions to worry over.

All at far less cost and no aircraft born viruses to make us sick for the next two weeks, either.

Unless the distance is huge or there's lots of water in the way, we ain't flying no more.

Just a thought.

[Joe4d]

ON the other hand, why fly, if it can be avoided.

We recently did a 2500 mile roundtrip by car, and it only took twice as long as flying.

The door to door time for the flight, and all the additional exertions, would have been eight hours each way and we drove it in 16 hours, each way.

Not a huge difference in the real world.

And we had a lot more fun, less hassles, greater comfort, and no worries about lost, damaged or stolen luggage.

No threat of possible canceled flights, leaving us in a strange town, with all those complications.

No airline or gummint restrictions to worry over.

All at far less cost and no aircraft born viruses to make us sick for the next two weeks, either.

Unless the distance is huge or there's lots of water in the way, we ain't flying no more.

Just a thought.

I'm with you, I'm not interestred in surrendering every single right you have to get on a plane, They treat u like crap and charge you with a crime if you have the audacity to protest.

One other key point you may want to look into is your insurance, most I found including the NRA's DONOT cover your gun while flying, They have a third party loss clause, may wanna have a chat with your insurer first. Any majors I go to I will be driving, and probably volunteerning to be gun and ammo mule for others.

[sperman]

I've spent more of my life than I care to admit driving across the country in a van. If the trip is more than 5-6 hours to drive, I'm taking a plane.

To each his own.

[gose]

I had external locks on my bags and on the hard cases which contained gun and ammo which were the TSA approved dual key type. Was later told that the gun case ones should have been "my key only" but it didn't bother anyone.

Until something happens... at least you know for next time

Of the six stateside check ins, one checking clerk wanted the gun box opened before she issued the label, one taped the label to the outside of the gun case and the other four told me to just to leave it loose in my luggage bag. (If the label has any relevence, then attaching it to the gunbox seems the most sensible approach.)

You should NOT show the unloaded gun to the ticketing agent. You declare that its unloaded by signing the orange label. The label then goes into the case if its a rifle case or into the suitcase if you have a pistol case inside the suitcase. Attaching it to the gun case might make sense, but I'd rather not dig it out of the suitcase since its not a requirement.

I had a ticketing agent in Vegas refusing to give me a label until without showing her that my AR15 really was unloaded. I tried telling her that I wasn't too interested in waving an AR around at a crowded airport...2 minutes later it was all resolved when her manager showed up and gave me the label....

As to TSA I was advised on the first leg to hang around for 10 minutes after my bags go in in case they needed to talk to me which I did. On the first leg (from LAX) I assumed that TSA would inspect the gun so left the padlocks unfastened.

Yeah, dont do that... an unlocked gun case can be confiscated (and most likely will be if they suspect/figure out whats in it.)

They opened all bags and swabbed them inside. They presumably could search them at their discretion. You could watch this happening if you wanted. There TSA keys wouldn't open my lock - turned out the one they needed was broken and they were going to head off somewhere to get another key but I just gave them my combination. Saw them clip someones lock who didn't have a TSA lock and didn't hang around.

Gun cases/suitcases with guns should be marked as such in the system when you check in and TSA has to make a reasonable effort to find the owner before breaking into anything that contains a gun, they cant just break into it like they can with other locked suitcases.

Seems like your experiences pretty much equal mine, some slight differences in procedures at various airports, but in general it's not really a big hassle.

[goldfieldshooter]

g.willikers

Driving is definetly the best option, a lot less hassle and you can carry as much ammo as you need.

But until I can hold my breath for 5 days and find under water gas stations I will fly.

I fly to the Bianchi Cup most years from New Zealand and the best advise I can give is: fill out the forms, go on the airlines website to get them if you need to.If travelling international use airlines from the same 'group' (AA,Qantas.) United,Air New Zealand) so your luggage can be booked through to destination.

Booking in on AA at St Louis I was told I would have to recheck my bags at LA as I had pistols and Qantas may not carry them. Showed him the Ammo and Firearm Permit issued on-line by Qantas and was booked straight through.The last thing you need on Memorial Weekend is booking in luggage in LA with firearms and ammo.

Do your homework and go with the flow. We shooters probably know more about the rules and regs than the checkin people.

goldfieldshooter