How much would you pay for full course IPSC TRANING?

[shooterbenedetto]

Would you guys be willing to pay top dollar for IPSC traning? if so how much?

200 to 300? from other GM's or about $1,500 for FULL COURSE!! from the world champ that would last a lifetime!!

this would be from BASIC (LEVEL 1)TO ADVANCE(LEVEL 2 AND 3)

Has anybody taken Grauffel's class. if so. how is it? and what time does the class end? all day or half

day for 2 days?

Edited December 3, 2007 by shooterbenedetto

[Matt P.]

I guess I look at it like this. If you were a D,C,B and even an A shooter, spending $1500 for training ( one on one I assume) seems a bit expensive for what you can get out of it. I believe that there are many good "teachers" that can teach you at those levels. If you are a very advanced shooter and need that extra edge that only an expert can give, well then it might be a different story.

I know for me when I was looking, it seemed like everyone that I looked at had the same training "model". In the end (and by accident) i settled into a one on one program with a guy I knew and get along with great.

The cost was not $1500 to answer this thread question.

[AikiDale]

The value is in how good a teacher one is, not how well one performs in the sport. Check with those who have been in Eric's classes. If they say he is a great teacher then being the world champ may add to the value of his class.

I've been in a class with Matt Burkett and he noticed things I should not be doing and told me why they hindered my shooting. He also noticed things I wasn't doing I should have been and could explain why I should do them. He noticed things I was doing that could be done better and showed me why doing them differently was better. These qualities make for a good coach/teacher.

That said, I'd be reluctant to pay $1,500 when the going rate seems to be 20% of that for a two day class from folks who are great teachers and sure know a lot more than do I.

[zhunter]

I paid $500 for one on one training from one of the top teachers in the country, Manny Bragg. We practiced from about 8:15 to nearly dark, which was about 6 PM, with a 45 minutes lunch break.

Worth every penny for sure!!!!!!!!!

Group lesson are less expensive, go for what you can afford.

$1500 is OUTLANDISH in my opinion.

[jasmap]

I see NO reason to pay $1500 unless he's coaching you all week. $500 for a great instructor and more ammo makes more sense to me.

Edited December 2, 2007 by jasmap

[EZ Bagger]

$1500? Sure, if that includes airfare to the champagne region.

[AlamoShooter]

It all depends on the shooter. As the shooter's level goes up so does the difficulty in making improvements. I see many shooters playing way below their capability level. and very few shooting at their capability level.

The most rewarding thing about teaching / coaching is to help the shooter get closer to their capability.

Same question in every day terms is ?what is too high to pay for lunch? $20.00 Or $200.00

$1,500 That is high< But I can see it being a good deal for many shooters. = It would have to be a limited class size, include printed and video take home information tools. Tailored for each shooter.

Printed as in an out line of the persons performance before and after the class, with tailored practice goals and drills.

The class would have to include something "Real" Like equipment tuning or ??? custom ear phones something they can use every day. =It would be one long weekend with Pm video reviews +++ to be worth $1,500

The Remington School used to charge something close to $3,000 $4,000 for a "Course". It included a new 1187 with a pro. fitting the gun to the shooter. small class size to instructor. like 12 students to 4 + instructors. it included all the amoe and targets the shooter could stand up to shoot. each of the instructors would get three to four students in a "sub group" the classes would be about 2 1/2 days long during the week with full use of a big sporting facility.

I helped as an instructor on two of the schools and every person in the classes was happy with the value.

Also The best tip I got was $200 form one shooter over my regular pay. $50 to $100 was the norm just for the tip.

Hand Gun /IPSC instruction has got a lot of catch up to do with the rest of the shooting industry.

[BrianH]

Sure it ain't 1500 Euros.....?

[Ramas]

I took class with Eric Grauffel. There will be 2 teachers- Eric and his dad. Eric looks dryfire, and his dad is for shooting. I took class 1 and 2 and a litle of class 3(you can look what techniques it will be in his web site). It was 2 day class, we shot abuot 900 rounds a day. You shouldn't expect any super-duper techniques, but you can get those little things that are unique from World Champ. Erics courses consist of three main things: 1. Accuracy-you can't shoot any deltas. If you do that you loose one magazine(you are using 4 of them) and if you shoot poorly you will be without mag and you will look what others do sitting "in the corner". 2. Technique- there Eric will show main techniques with those little things which you will get only from Worl Champ. 3. Tactics- if you will have chances to shoot some stages you will see and learn some interesting points, beginning from hit factor calculations and ending which target to shoot first or last also deppending from surfaces on shooting bay.

In the end- I don't know is it worth to spend 1500USD, because you have a lot of good shooters and teachers in your country, but for me it was very informative(we were group of 10 shooters and it cost less for us and i was shooting about an year). We have Eric Grauffel courses here in Lithuania for 2 years and a little example is Europeans- shooters from our country in Europeans 2004 was somwhere in 130 place and this year in Europeans they were in 35-39 places.

By the way if you will go to those courses-ask questions- it will all be answered, and by the way they like that and will give you more.

[Kingman]

hmm, sounds steep. I have yet to pay for training from one of the big name guys, but the thought keeps crossing my mind. But that sounds very pricey. I could pay for a lot of practice ammo for that price

[trickpony]

Another vote for Manny! He's awesome and will teach you what you need to do to reach your full potential. I recommend his Advanced/Intermediate group class and then a one day semi-private advanced movement class.

[EZ Bagger]

Sure it ain't 1500 Euros.....?

1,500.00 EUR = 2,197.67 USD

[Shawn Knight]

I wouldn't mind having a GM give me some pointers. I know nothing replaces one on one instruction, but just watching them during a match gives you a lot of insight into how they do their thing. I have only seen a few but it gave me a slight edge when I looked at how I would engage a stage and I was able to go faster just be seeing how to analyze the stages better.

[Chris Keen]

It better be 1 on 1 training for $1500

[smokshwn]

+10 for Manny

I have taken a few shooting classes and tons of training classes for work. The one thing that has rang true from all of them is that the class is absolutely worthless unless you are willing to due the 6-8 months worth of work after the 3 days of instruction. IMHO there are some very good shooting resources (Manny, TT and Max, Todd Jarrett, Shannon Smith, et al.) who can give you plenty of quality instruction to keep you busy for those 6 months work periods. Given that, a good instructor is very worthwhile and Eric's class may actually be worth the cost, comparatively it seems a bit steep.

[jasmap]

I have paid for training from a GM (Max Michel Jr.) and he didn't even try to charge me $1500.

[Jaxshooter]

Another vote for Manny.

[yoshidaex]

shooterbenedetto mentioned he was thinking of taking Eric Grauffels class before the 2008 Florida open. The cost is 550 euro which translate to about $800+ usd going by todays exchange rate. Thats not too bad but I'm thinking SB is including hotel cost, rental car, food and probably match fee for the 08 FL open too. If thats the case, thats not too bad.

Me? I'm happy with what I learned from Sensei Bragg and will be taking another class after the 08 FL open .

I'm sure eventually I'll take one of Eric Grauffels class but maybe when the euro isn't so strong

Edited December 3, 2007 by yoshidaex

[dirtypool40]

I have heard from those who've attended EG's class, that it's sort of a group thing, mostly tricks instead of lots of technical evaluation and practice drills, and he sort of "oversees" the class. This may or may not be what you're talking about.

going rate seems to be about $300 for a 2-day. You need to elaborate on what you'll get for that $1500.

Again, like they said above, there's good shooters and good teachers, and bein' one don't make you the other.

Edited December 3, 2007 by dirtypool40

[Micah]

If someone isn't willing to put in the time when nobody is watching, than it's wasted money...Euros or US dollars.

[sargenv]

I paid $310 a few years ago for a Revolver class with Jerry Miculek. He came out to Richmond and our clas had I think 10 shooters. To this day I'm still using the info he taught us that day.. Nice guy.

If I were to pay $1500, I think there should be something included like ammo, gun rental etc. It's a bit of money to pay. When I took Jerry's class, we fired about 1200-1500 rounds.. I did mine 6 at a time! over 2 days. Of course this was when ammo cost me $80/k. It's a bit more these days.

[uscbigdawg]

I paid for Matt B.'s 2 day, private training with him down in AZ. It was worth it. I've also trained with Mike Voigt, Bennie Cooley and will be working with Max & Travis when I get home.

I'll say this about value. It's a matter of perspective. The best thing that I've heard from both Matt & Mike that is true is this. If you ask a B-D shooter to pay $500 and you'll gain 20-30% improvement on your performance they're performance and they will probably say know. Ask a high B, A or Master for only a 10% improvement and they'll say hell yeah! At the start, you can gain so much more from proper training 'cause you won't have to unlearn bad habits. At the higher levels, training is great 'cause it does come down to the small things. Heck, Mike took my draw from a .95 to a .80-.85 in like 10 minutes!

Good training is worth it, but there is a point where the prices are goofy.

Rich

[shooterbenedetto]

Sorry guys but for $1500.00 is for FULL COURSE..about $1500.00 level1 (basic) after 6 months or 1 year then $Level 2 and 3 (advance) and about 3000 rds of practice ammo by the time you are done.

This includes only AIRFARE TO FLORIDA WHERE HE TEACHES in U.S every year!!

[boo radley]

Sorry guys but for $1500.00 is for FULL COURSE..about $1500.00 level1 (basic) after 6 months or 1 year then $Level 2 and 3 (advance) and about 3000 rds of practice ammo by the time you are done.

This includes only AIRFARE TO FLORIDA WHERE HE TEACHES in U.S every year!!

I don't know, man...I looked at his website and his rates seem to be up there, but not outrageously so.

At his place: $165 -> $375, depending on class size. On the road, what -- $1650 a day plus expenses, for up to 10 people?

The FlOpen class does seem a lot higher, though.

As another data point, I've taken two classes, with zero regrets. First was a two-day class from Frank Garcia when I first started. I was a bit bummed at how many other shooters were in the class -- like 8 or 9 -- but at that point we really didn't need a lot of dedicated one-on-one. After proving we weren't able to consistently shoot 5-second Bill Drills at 10 yards -- how much 'advanced movement technique' did we need?

I think the course was like $350 at the time.

Last summer I took a one-on-one class with Chris Tilley. I forget exactly what I paid, but I think about what I did for Frank. His rates are now WAY more expensive, however, looking at his website.

Lots of options out there. I think it's still a buyer's market, so shop carefully.

[redwoods]

As Aikidale was saying, just because you can shoot well, doesn't mean you can teach well.

I teach skiing at Vail and some of our best teachers, are not our best skiers. While those on the national demo team are the best skiers and teachers, just because you are great at the sport or thing you do, doesn't mean you can be a great teacher at it. If Tiger Wood's golf coach was a great golfer, he would be out there competing against him.

I would be cautioned to give 1500 bananas to a GM shooter just because he knows how to shoot his gun like a pro. I would rather give the money to a master shooter who has the teaching ability and eye for your shooting before giving it to someone who may just be a GM shooter.

Randy