Minor or Major? Pros & Cons - Limited Minor

[Turbo23]

Hi all,

I have an old debate to bring back from the grave...

Does any body still (or try to still) operate on the theory that a person could

shot minor in LIMITED better than they could or would shot major??

Just a thought that I have had a time or 2 in practice. I am so much more accurate

at speed with a 9 than a 40.... Not by a mile but still.

Any in site on this possible bogus theory??

Be gentle and have fun

Todd

Edited August 27, 2007 by Turbo23

[Alan Meek]

Depends on the shooter.

If the shooter has difficulty handling major .40 in limited then using a 9mm at minor pf with more bullets might be a better choice

Alan

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: You could always shoot minor 40 which is softer than factory 9mm. Thanks, Eric

[benny hill]

This horse is dead. You will drop as many points with minor as you will with major after the buzzer goes off. You will be giveing up TWICE as many points w/ minor.

[ashman627]

This horse is dead. You will drop as many points with minor as you will with major after the buzzer goes off. You will be giveing up TWICE as many points w/ minor.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge .I'm a former rifle bullsye shooter who has only just started shooting IDPA and I love it.Could someone give me a quick rundown on the difference on minor/major scoring?i'm planning on shooting IPSC soon and I don't undersstand the scoring at all.Thanks very much

Edited August 27, 2007 by ashman627

[XRe]

For anything that's not an A-zone hit, you drop an extra point when shooting minor... So, Bs and Cs become 3pts instead of 4, Ds become 1pt instead of 2.

Shooting minor is generally worth a loss of about 10% of match points vs. shooting major, either through more dropped points, or slowing down enough to get more A-zones. Is that 10% worth a few extra rounds of capacity? Generally speaking, no... If you can't handle 168PF .40 at all, then perhaps it might give you a way to shoot Limited, but 168 PF .40 is pretty darn manageable, in the end.

[HoMiE]

This horse is dead. You will drop as many points with minor as you will with major after the buzzer goes off. You will be giveing up TWICE as many points w/ minor.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge .I'm a former rifle bullsye shooter who has only just started shooting IDPA and I love it.Could someone give me a quick rundown on the difference on minor/major scoring?i'm planning on shooting IPSC soon and I don't undersstand the scoring at all.Thanks very much

If you are shooting IDPA, you can shoot minor in ESP and SSP as the floor is 125 for power factor.

In IPSC/USPSA however to score major in Limited/L10 you need ninimun .40 caliber and 165 power factor. In Production, everything is scored as minor, so it is similar to IDPA in ESP/SSP divisions.

[Flexmoney]

Minor sucks.

[DVC247]

Flex, eloquent as usual. As for myself, due to slight reloading error I found myself shooting minor at two State Championships--losing twice as many points for anything but an A-zone hit KILLS you, and even near the minor PF floor the difference in recoil isn't enough to matter. A D-hit in Minor (1 measley point) is basically a no-penalty miss.

[foxtrotuniformlima]

I think the real proof came in Single Stack. You can have 10 rounds in mag and shoot minor or 8 and shoot major. A 20 % advantage in round count and not a single shooter that finished in the top 50 at the SS Nationals shot minor and only 2 in the top 100.

I think unless you are of very slight build and the recoil is an issue, you are better off with major,

[shred]

Generally the speed isn't worth it.. if you think about it, the place recoil management helps the most is on the second shot on a target.. that would be less than half the shots in the stage (yeah, it may help some on mondo-arrays, but less so).. anyway

Every point you drop will cost you somewhere between 0.1 second (10 HF) and 0.2 second (5 HF) versus the Major guys It's tough to beat a major gun by .2 on splits when they're under that already..

Magazine capacity may help more, but it's not that big a difference in most cases..

[ashman627]

For anything that's not an A-zone hit, you drop an extra point when shooting minor... So, Bs and Cs become 3pts instead of 4, Ds become 1pt instead of 2.

Shooting minor is generally worth a loss of about 10% of match points vs. shooting major, either through more dropped points, or slowing down enough to get more A-zones. Is that 10% worth a few extra rounds of capacity? Generally speaking, no... If you can't handle 168PF .40 at all, then perhaps it might give you a way to shoot Limited, but 168 PF .40 is pretty darn manageable, in the end.

Thanks.That was very easy to understand.

[Turbo23]

Thanks all....

I shoot major now and really did not plan to leave it.

My girl friend is wanting to try a 40 cal gun for a match or two.

And I though about just switching with her......then you all

brought me back to my senses...

I was really wondering what every one thought about it.

Does not take a rocket scientist to see that basically no body

shoots minor in LIMITED.

Thanks for the input.... the gentle and the firm ...(flex)

Todd

[shooting for M]

A friend is thinking of going minor in Single Stack. We have been talking about the round count advantage. I guess the scores at SS nationals kind of speak for themselves but there are some things to think about, I haven't looked at the results for this, but who was shooting minor, and were they using 9 or 10 round magazines, and if 10 were they working. I understand Virgil Tripp is close to coming out with some good 10 round 9mm magazines. I guess the only way to find out is to try.

Jason

Edited August 29, 2007 by shooting for M

[Shay1911]

Let's assume one consistently shoots A's. One is a C-B shooter that almost always gets 95%-97% of points available per match. One is starting to work on speed and movement, and can, usually, place in the middle of the B pack. When one does shoot Limited minor, one places at the exact same place.

If one stays with Limited major, one has:

- better scoring

- coolness factor

If one moves to Limited minor, one has:

- higher capacity, 23 round mags

- cheaper ammo

- faster, flatter shooting

- no difference in scoring steel

- lighter gun

- easier to be off balance while shooting

- a miss is a miss, an A is an A, steel is steel

I am not sure if Limited minor is really faster, never did a timed test, but in theory, it sounds good.

Any opinions?

[ChuckS]

This has been discussed many times in the past. You may want to search around a bit. A short answer: when questions like this come up I like to see if I can get an answer from major matches and, for example, the top 40 shooters in the 2007 limited nationals were major. If minor was a winner for match performance, they would be using it.

Later,

Chuck

[AikiDale]

One is puzzled with reference to this point:

- easier to be off balance while shooting

Please explain how lowering one's caliber affects one's balance.

[Shay1911]

Alright, I guess my searching skills are not up to par, because I couldnt find any of those discussions...

In searching major matches, I see that Taran, for example, gets forced into minor scoring sometimes and still does well. Henning was also shooting minor for a while.

Off balance shooting - one leg as you exit a box for example. I, for one, feel that you need a more solid base to shoot a major caliber than a minor caliber.

I am not saying that minor is the way to go to win Nationals, I am no where near that level of shooting.

[vluc]

Take a top dog score shooting major, replace scores with minor scoring and see the difference. Those C and D hits add up in a game of tenths of a second. The strategy of taking a C to gain a bit of time suffers shooting minor...ask any production shooter.

[Jman]

Absolutely no reason not to shoot Limited minor at club matches. If that is what you got to shoot. At the top end of the Pro ranks their is every reason to shoot major in Limited. Just review the final scores in the National over the last several years. Kiss steel in major and it falls. Do the same in minor and...? "D" hits in minor are virtual mikes. Over the course of a Level 3 match, it's HUGE.

Jim

[eerw]

Limited minor is not a strategy for winning..

on the clock..the splits and transitions between major and minor should be the same. so there is no gain or loss there.

the main diffence will be how a person manages recoil, points and available rounds.

a upper class shooter should still do well..as the majority of the points they shoot will be As. in a close match the C's will make a difference. I don't think anyone has ever one a major match shooting minor..they are have been in the top five and after first..the prize money is pretty much the same.

given that...shooting minor can be more affordable, can be easier to shoot, the choice of guns is greater..it that gets you too the range..then its the way to go. you can do well and anything that gets you to pull the trigger more is good.

[tpcdvc]

Limited minor is not a strategy for winning..

on the clock..the splits and transitions between major and minor should be the same. so there is no gain or loss there.

the main diffence will be how a person manages recoil, points and available rounds.

a upper class shooter should still do well..as the majority of the points they shoot will be As. in a close match the C's will make a difference. I don't think anyone has ever one a major match shooting minor..they are have been in the top five and after first..the prize money is pretty much the same.

given that...shooting minor can be more affordable, can be easier to shoot, the choice of guns is greater..it that gets you too the range..then its the way to go. you can do well and anything that gets you to pull the trigger more is good.

+1

Recoil does not matter much at all (until you get to open...total different game). You will learn to time a gun just as fast shooting major. So you are gaining nothing. Just giving up a bunch of points. And even The Big Dogs can't afford to loose the points when shooting 6 or 7 Cs on a 32 round course. And yes they all shoot D's too (go look at the match summaries at the area matches this year). The extra rounds can help but it will not out way the disadvantages.

[ChuckS]

Alright, I guess my searching skills are not up to par, because I couldnt find any of those discussions...

Here ya go:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=limited+minor

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=limited+minor

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=limited+minor

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=limited+minor

There are also a few threads on this subject for Single Stack minor.

Later,

Chuck

[Shay1911]

Alright, I guess my searching skills are not up to par, because I couldnt find any of those discussions...

Here ya go:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=limited+minor

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=limited+minor

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=limited+minor

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=limited+minor

There are also a few threads on this subject for Single Stack minor.

Later,

Chuck

Thanks, I found the discussion on 9mm major for limited interesting.

I'll stick with .40 major, thanks.

[Joe4d]

Limited minor is not a strategy for winning..

on the clock..the splits and transitions between major and minor should be the same. so there is no gain or loss there.

the main diffence will be how a person manages recoil, points and available rounds.

a upper class shooter should still do well..as the majority of the points they shoot will be As. in a close match the C's will make a difference. I don't think anyone has ever one a major match shooting minor..they are have been in the top five and after first..the prize money is pretty much the same.

given that...shooting minor can be more affordable, can be easier to shoot, the choice of guns is greater..it that gets you too the range..then its the way to go. you can do well and anything that gets you to pull the trigger more is good.

Actually quite a few matches including World championships have been won shooting minor, Specifically Browning Hipower 9mm's of course all the major guns at the time were single stack 45's ,In fact the hole major minor scoring was set up to equalize the 7+1 1911 the Americans shot with the 13+1 Browning everyone else in the world shot.