Bullets need to be heavier back East.

[kurtm]

Why is it that shooters back East almost all think you need a 75-77 grain bullet minimum for anything past 50 yards? 

This comes up many times when folks find out I shoot 55 grain bullets for ever target and range. It usually goes  by area. I have noticed many shooters East of say Kansas think that past 50 yards or so you need heavy bullets. I have been told by shooters back East that my 55 grain bullets won't make a flash target work at 300 yards. I've been told that at 600 yards a 55 grain bullets is basically falling vertically down and would make "pencil marks"  on a paper target. I have been told that I was going to zero stages that were MGM flash targets out to 350 because my bullets were too light for the wind and it wouldn't flash the targets. 

Around Kansas or so and the rest of the way west you will find all sorts of good shooters using 55 grain bullets for every target and distance. That's all most the guys I shoot with are using. So why back East do you need heavies? Is it something in the earths rotation? Heavy geo-magnetisim? I'm really curious! I'm not anti heavies, and if the answer is they are the most accurate out of my rifle, great! But why do people think a light bullet out of mine wouldn't be?? 

Edited November 27, 2023 by kurtm

[GrumpyOne]

The air is thicker, need more weight to push through it.

[Dan Sierpina]

The only thing I can think of is that most of the longish shooting back east is NRA Highpower. 75+ grain bullets are the norm there, and the online forums reflect that. I still have a bunch of heavy bullets from shooting that game, they don't get used at all for 3 gun. Nosler Ballistic Tips or Hornady V-Max is what I've used for years when I traveled west to shoot Rocky Mountain 3 Gun. 

 

[Alaskapopo]

2 hours ago, kurtm said:

Why is it that shooters back East almost all think you need a 75-77 grain bullet minimum for anything past 50 yards? 

This comes up many times when folks find out I shoot 55 grain bullets for ever target and range. It usually goes  by area. I have noticed many shooters East of say Kansas think that past 50 yards or so you need heavy bullets. I have been told by shooters back East that my 55 grain bullets won't make a flash target work at 300 yards. I've been told that at 600 yards a 55 grain bullets is basically falling vertically down and would make "pencil marks"  on a paper target. I have been told that I was going to zero stages that were MGM flash targets out to 350 because my bullets were too light for the wind and it wouldn't flash the targets. 

Around Kansas or so and the rest of the way west you will find all sorts of good shooters using 55 grain bullets for every target and distance. That's all most the guys I shoot with are using. So why back East do you need heavies? Is it something in the earths rotation? Heavy geo-magnetisim? I'm really curious! I'm not anti heavies, and if the answer is they are the most accurate out of my rifle, great! But why do people think a light bullet out of mine wouldn't be?? 

You don’t have to have them but they do perform much better.  Love the heavies. 

[kurtm]

Honest question here, if your heavies hit a target at let's say 500 yards and it indicates by rocking/flashing and my light bullet hits the target and it indicates by rocking/flashing at the same range how is the performance much better? 

 

Now in Pat's case I understand the need for heavy bullets as you are much closer to the North Pole, but why the thinking of the meer presence of 55 grail bullets in a magazine means you will zero stages and not be able to hit targets past 50 yards or so? 

[Cuz]

24 minutes ago, kurtm said:

Honest question here, if your heavies hit a target at let's say 500 yards and it indicates by rocking/flashing and my light bullet hits the target and it indicates by rocking/flashing at the same range how is the performance much better? 

 

Now in Pat's case I understand the need for heavy bullets as you are much closer to the North Pole, but why the thinking of the meer presence of 55 grail bullets in a magazine means you will zero stages and not be able to hit targets past 50 yards or so? 

I’m curious why anyone cares at all what you have in your gun. They should worry about what they have in their gun, and let the results decide…

[Old3GNR]

If you ever had to hit a swinger @ 100 yards and needed to make it spin you would understand why you need either 69 or 77  bullets.

[Rookie]

The "on-line" myth seems to be that accuracy is a function of bullet weight (at least in 223 or 5.56 world).  I have barrels that shoot 55 grain FMJ very well (under 1 MOA) and I have used them successfully out to 600 yards (Steel with Flashers).  My ballistic chart indicates that I'm pushing the super-sonic envelope at this range... but (obviously) the bullet  is still moving.

 

If I have a special shooting challenge where a heavier bullet might offer an advantage... heavy targets, 20 MPH winds, spinners, etc., then I might go to a heavier projectile.  But if I just have to hit a target... I'll go with the lower cost option that gets the job done.

[kurtm]

"If you ever had to hit a swinger @ 100 yards and needed to make it spin"

 

After over 28 years 3-gunning, do you really think I have never had that challenge? Do you really think I was unsuccessful? Let's. Look at a 69 grain bullets. It weighs 14 grains more than a 55.... The amount of one piece of #6 shot. Do you really think that is significant? 77, obviously 22 grains heavier, the weight of one piece of #4 shot. I will grant you it is a tiny advantage, but what makes you think a 55 grain bullets wouldn't spin the spinner? 

Edited November 27, 2023 by kurtm

[Matt1911]

400 and in, I stick with 55 grain

past 400 I use 75 grain

[outerlimits]

55gr nosler ballistic tips for EVERYTHING!

[Rookie]

18 hours ago, kurtm said:

I will grant you it is a tiny advantage, but what makes you think a 55 grain bullets wouldn't spin the spinner?

Next you'll be trying to convince us that we (you) can do this with iron sights???

[kurtm]

Oh now that's just crazy talk! Everyone knows that if you have iron sights you can only hit targets at 38.3 yards and closer. Anything farther away is just wasting lead!  I mean come on man you can't even see a spinner at 100 yards without your LPVO set as high as it can go. Heck even with 4X magnification you might not be able to see it at all. 

[TonytheTiger]

This begins with people almost universally shooting only garbage 55gr ammo and getting poor accuracy from it, combined with almost all 77gr ammo being much higher quality, and not coincidentally, more accurate.

Then it turned into a myth of 55gr bullets being inadequate, rather than more accurately saying cheap s#!tty bullets that shoot poorly are inadequate. 

[Boomstick303]

On 11/26/2023 at 4:57 PM, kurtm said:

MGM flash targets out to 350 because my bullets were too light for the wind and it wouldn't flash the targets. 

 

What kind of wind are we talking about?   I have used my reloaded 55 gr bullets to flash that exact flasher at 400 yds.  

 

We have found there are more problems with that flasher than 55 gr ammo hitting targets out to 500 yds. I guess I can see that if the steel was so heavy that it does not move at that distance, but we use normal AR steel and they move enough to set off the flasher.

 

I will shoot 55 gr all day long out to 500 yds without issue in light wind conditions.  I can see the utility in the use of heavier bullets when conditions are windy.  Then I think it becomes more of a question of how good your wind game is for long distance shooting that the weight of the bullet.    

 

Fudds are funny.  

 

[outerlimits]

almost no MD uses flashers at distance any longer-for obvious reasons.  the cool MD's use magneto speed on their steel.  and they are the Sh$t.

[Dr Mitch]

Heavier bullets with higher BC are becoming more popular via YouTube and social media, especially from shorter barrels <16”.  Loaded ammo with heavier projectiles has become more affordable via AAC, so cost is helping the trend also.  Half of Americans live on or near the east coast, so maybe that is part of the formula.  Those are my guesses.

[kurtm]

Good deduction Tony! I think your on to something there.

Dr. Mitch, I would agree somewhat but this phenomenon started way before heavy ammo became cheaper to find. I also think you need to shoot a dot gun this weekend and leave limited to the guys who haven't shot in a while

[Darqusoull13]

Signature on and off targets beyond 400 yards in 3 gun for me. 70's and 77's provide the RO's (of varying spotting skill levels) more feedback by moving the target more on impact. I also see more plate swing on hanging targets if I'm left or right on plate and I can correct to center.

In the rare instance I miss () I have a better chance spotting the increased feedback a heavier bullet offers in adverse conditions (e.g. splash in recently wet ground). 

Feedback is the same reason I run ~105 gr bullets as a minimum in PRS matches beyond 800 yards. Even the long for caliber 22's at 90 gr give up some feedback on plate and you'll donate an impact or 2 to spotters missing hits on large steel. 

55's will and do absolutely work. 

[Chills1994]

On 11/28/2023 at 7:39 PM, outerlimits said:

almost no MD uses flashers at distance any longer-for obvious reasons.  the cool MD's use magneto speed on their steel.  and they are the Sh$t.

Thank you for posting that.

 

i had no clue that such a gadget existed.

 

 

[Chills1994]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:57 PM, kurtm said:

Why is it that shooters back East almost all think you need a 75-77 grain bullet minimum for anything past 50 yards? 

This comes up many times when folks find out I shoot 55 grain bullets for ever target and range. It usually goes  by area. I have noticed many shooters East of say Kansas think that past 50 yards or so you need heavy bullets. I have been told by shooters back East that my 55 grain bullets won't make a flash target work at 300 yards. I've been told that at 600 yards a 55 grain bullets is basically falling vertically down and would make "pencil marks"  on a paper target. I have been told that I was going to zero stages that were MGM flash targets out to 350 because my bullets were too light for the wind and it wouldn't flash the targets. 

Around Kansas or so and the rest of the way west you will find all sorts of good shooters using 55 grain bullets for every target and distance. That's all most the guys I shoot with are using. So why back East do you need heavies? Is it something in the earths rotation? Heavy geo-magnetisim? I'm really curious! I'm not anti heavies, and if the answer is they are the most accurate out of my rifle, great! But why do people think a light bullet out of mine wouldn't be?? 

You have been preaching 55 grainers for at least 10 years here on the BE forums.

 

Here is a thread from 2010:

 

 

I am not saying that is good or bad….one way or the other.

 

just looking at a ballistics chart for .223, it appears at 400 yards both 55 grain and 77 grain projectiles are still zipping along at 1800 fps or so.

 

I do not like the typical formula for kinetic energy (one half mass times velocity squared).

 

I would just rather use power factor:

 

55gr………99 

 

77gr……..138

 

Yeah, there is a difference but is it that big of a difference?

 

Me?  Personally?  I think there is are several advantages to sticking with just one bullet:

 

1.  You only need to learn one DOPE across the board

 

2.  You only need to lug one type of ammo or reloads to a match

 

3.  You only need to stock up on one bullet if you are reloading

 

 

 

 

[outerlimits]

On 12/5/2023 at 12:40 PM, Chills1994 said:

Thank you for posting that.

 

i had no clue that such a gadget existed.

 

 

her's a look at them at 360 or so...