Bullet options for TiteGroup

[Seanzky]

So far, my friend has found success with plated Berry's and X-Treme's using TiteGroup. When we tested BBI (Black Bullets International which uses Hi-Tek coating, I believe), it was very smoky. Shooting a double-tap pretty much created a hanging cloud in an indoor range lane. This might be okay for outdoors (doubt it), but definitely not indoors.

 

Has anyone tested BB (Bayou Bullets which uses the same polymer coating) with TiteGroup? I'm just trying to find an economical solution now that VV N320 is so hard to find. I want to try switching to TG, but I want to know what the options are in terms of bullets. I prefer coated over plated, but if all polymer/coated are going to be smoky, then I guess plated is the only way to go? Can anyone who has experienced this chime in? I want to know so I can just buy in bulk and not buy small batches and have to test each batch if I can help it. Thanks!

Edited November 16, 2023 by Seanzky

[4n2t0]

I load a ton of TG with plated bullets (no smoke) but I only load coated in .38 with WST, so I can't speak towards your specific issue. Over the years I've seen many member on here state that the coatings application, cure, and thickness might matter. I'm sure someone will chime in shortly to help but I would always buy a smaller sample size to test first before you back up the truck.

Edited November 16, 2023 by 4n2t0

[9x45]

Bayou was the first to run HiTek in the US. I've run tons of them over TiteGroup. If coated bullets smoke, they are imporperly cured, and most of the other companies had start up problems when they started using HiTek. Currently I am running Summit City with no smoke. But have also run BBI, DG, and Blue Bullets with similar results.

[Seanzky]

1 hour ago, 4n2t0 said:

I load a ton of TG with plated bullets (no smoke) but I only load coated in .38 with WST, so I can't speak towards your specific issue. Over the years I've seen many member on here state that the coatings application, cure, and thickness might matter. I'm sure someone will chime in shortly to help but I would always buy a smaller sample size to test first before you back up the truck.

Agreed, and my friend and I have had the same results with plated and TG as well. You might be onto something with regards to the coating application. Shaving edges during bullet seating would definitely play a role as well, though I don't think that's what happened with our test. I think maybe HiTek simply doesn't work nicely with TG.

 

32 minutes ago, 9x45 said:

Bayou was the first to run HiTek in the US. I've run tons of them over TiteGroup. If coated bullets smoke, they are imporperly cured, and most of the other companies had start up problems when they started using HiTek. Currently I am running Summit City with no smoke. But have also run BBI, DG, and Blue Bullets with similar results.

Right, Bayou uses the same coating as BBI (HiTek), but of course I wouldn't know if they applied the coat the same way. Which, exactly to your point, is why I wonder if Bayou Bullets will yield better results.

 

Did you mean BBI, DG, and Blue Bullets yielded similar results as Summit or similar results as what I saw (smoky)?

 

Thank you both for your inputs!

[Joe4d]

Tight group burns hotter than some other powders...  whatever amount of smoke a given bullet will produce, you will get more of it with Tightgroup,, whether thats too much for you will depend on the application.  You should have seen it with old school hard cast and wax lube,,, and the older black Moly coatings.. I think it is alot better with the Hi tek,, although I have a bunch of tight group, I guess its my rainy day powder and probably would load jacketed..

Lots of other powders on the market you would probably be happier with..  At lower price points Shooterworld Cleanshot, (AKA Accurate #2)  is as good a fast pistol powder as any.. Alliant powder have gone way up in price,, but alot of folks are pleased with Sport Pistol.

[Seanzky]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

Tight group burns hotter than some other powders...  whatever amount of smoke a given bullet will produce, you will get more of it with Tightgroup,, whether thats too much for you will depend on the application.  You should have seen it with old school hard cast and wax lube,,, and the older black Moly coatings.. I think it is alot better with the Hi tek,, although I have a bunch of tight group, I guess its my rainy day powder and probably would load jacketed..

Lots of other powders on the market you would probably be happier with..  At lower price points Shooterworld Cleanshot, (AKA Accurate #2)  is as good a fast pistol powder as any.. Alliant powder have gone way up in price,, but alot of folks are pleased with Sport Pistol.

Honestly, if N320 didn't suddenly become a unicorn, and cost as much as it does, I would have never looked at an alternative. Now that I'm looking, I'm considering the most cost-effective one which seems to be TG. I haven't really explored handgun powders coming from reloading 308. I'll take a look at Accurate #2/Cleanshot... or just go with plated and TG.

[Postal Bob]

I use Ibejiheads coated bullets with Titegroup, and they produce very little smoke. Different brands have different coatings, so you will see some smoke more than others. Along with them having a very funky smell when you shoot them. 

[m700]

Accurate 2 is pretty close to 320 and burns clean with DG and Blue bullets

[Joe4d]

1 hour ago, m700 said:

Accurate 2 is pretty close to 320 and burns clean with DG and Blue bullets

yeh been using it for most of my shooting under old style moly coated, and the newer Hi tek stuff. If was shopping Id do the shootersworld version tends to be a buck or 2 a lb cheaper.

[stick]

I've used TG for the last 10 years.  I have loaded Bayou with it.  I prefer plated and now run Everglades Rn exclusively.  TG is very dirty compared to other powders.

[Dr. Phil]

Winchester 231 and HP38 (same powder different packaging) are very similar to Tightgroup in charges and velocity. Either is a lot cleaner. 

I shoot Blue Bullets, Bayou and BBI over 231 and it is not bad for smoke. Now I am shooting mostly powder coated bullets from a friend and they are better still.

Plated will be better for sure.

[IHAVEGAS]

An indoor range would be an interesting test. Shooting outdoors I have never seen a disadvantage to using titegroup with both Bayou and SNS. Loading 9mm to typical power factor for the shooting games (130 ish), it works well for me. 

[Joe4d]

27 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

An indoor range would be an interesting test. Shooting outdoors I have never seen a disadvantage to using titegroup with both Bayou and SNS. Loading 9mm to typical power factor for the shooting games (130 ish), it works well for me. 

agreed,, yeh a bit of smoke I think once in 20 years it distracted me,, hi humidity, no wind, Old moly coated 180 gr 40's so pressure was probably a little low, moving target,,, and even that was kinda a  AHHH it does smoke thats what folks complain about..
I found tight group to be cheap,, readily available locally, and clean enough to get through a match with old school hardcast wax lubed or Precision and master blaster molly.
But then Local gun shops and gun show venders went full stupid on prices, so I started ordering in bulk from powder valley.
Went to WST for major and minor 40,,,  Then got into pins and went with slower powders.
Now into Icore and in the past had ran into some yard sales and estate sales and got about 10 lbs of accurate #2... worked up 38 short colt loads under 147 gr bayous at 125 pf and so far no complaints,, road trip to scheels tommorrow dropping the wife unit off at wichita airport to visit the heathans,  Think I am gonna pick up enough clean shot to finish out my days 

I still have 5 or 6 lbs of tightgroup if anyone wants to trade local for something like BE86,, or Accurate # 5... thinking of getting into medium 44 magnum loading.

 

[LHshooter]

I load Titegroup and have used coated bullets from Hoosier Bullets, Missouri Bullets, and Blue Bullets. Occasionally I get a "smoky" round but don't know why it happens. Usually I don't have an issue re smoke. But, last week at a match I had one round that was so smoky I could barely see in front of me. Have no idea what caused that.

[davsco]

in my essentially limited optics 9mm 2011, i'm shooting 135 blue bullets with 3.3g titegroup.  only outside so far but have noticed no smoke at all.

[Seanzky]

22 hours ago, davsco said:

in my essentially limited optics 9mm 2011, i'm shooting 135 blue bullets with 3.3g titegroup.  only outside so far but have noticed no smoke at all.

Blue Bullets and BBI use the same coating, right? Maybe just different thickness? I really would love to stick with coated bullets over plated, if possible, but not if it's smoky indoors.

[davsco]

i'm only familiar with blue bullets, and only in the past year or so.

[Hammerman]

BBI uses a different coating than Blue bullets as far as I know.  I think the BBI bullets are more like the Hi-tek coating, but thinner.  I use both bullet brands depending on price and to me, BBI is a little cleaner.  I use titegroup in the 40 and have used titegroup and clays in the 9.  Not too smokey outdoors.  

[MuayThaiJJ]

I've had smoke issues consistently with coated bullets and less with blue bullets. TG seems to smoke a lot regardless, but it is cheap and plentiful.

[MedicineMan]

Tightgroup likes to be loaded hot and the hot loads burn cleaner.  Light loads tend to be smoky and dirty.

\

[Seanzky]

23 hours ago, MedicineMan said:

Tightgroup likes to be loaded hot and the hot loads burn cleaner.  Light loads tend to be smoky and dirty.

\

Interesting. So for gamer loads, how does everyone like TG? Is the smokiness something folks just put up with and reserve for outdoors? I've learned that it can be pretty close to N320 in feel, but the smokiness is crazy.

[Midwest3Gunner]

I loaded 3.4 gr TG with 147 Blue bullets, 135-140 PF and they shot fine. A little dirty in the gun, but didn't notice much for smoke. I also don't shoot indoors. I did pick up some SportPistol, which is supposed to feel a lot like TG, just nicer to coated bullets.

[Maximis228]

ALL coated projectiles will create more smoke with Titegroup. Some produce less but all of them will be significantly more than using a plated or jacket projectile. 

[Seanzky]

19 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

ALL coated projectiles will create more smoke with Titegroup. Some produce less but all of them will be significantly more than using a plated or jacket projectile. 

This is what I figured...

[Tunachaser]

Also scraping the coating when seating the bullets can produce smoke, double check the expansion die setting to make sure.  You usually need more than with plated or jacketed.