Tips to get sub 1 lb trigger pull

[sandflea316]

I recently took delivery of my Brazos SC Open gun.  Trigger from Bob came in it 2.5 lb.  That's too heavy for me.  Tuning the sear spring and using a 17 lb main spring brought it down to 1 lb 12 oz.

 

In contrast my Akai open gun is 

14 oz which is what I've been running and used too.

 

Would like to at least get to 1 lb

[konkapot]

I do not know how to do this....but my understanding is that your goal is going to take some work on the sear/hammer interface, which can be tricky. I'd recommend having a smith doing it. Some of the old timer smiths can't/won't do it. Maybe send to to Akai to do the trigger work?

[lroy]

Did you tell him you wanted a 14oz trigger?

[shred]

If you look way deep in the forum Brian talked about what it took to get a sub 1-lb trigger back in the day, and the 1911 trigger hasn't changed any since.  That said, unless you plan to stick with Open forever, you might want to consider learning to shoot a heavier trigger over the long haul.  BTDT

 

 

[sandflea316]

2 hours ago, lroy said:

Did you tell him you wanted a 14oz trigger?

Didn't think that was an option being it's was his Semi-Custom series

[yigal]

2 hours ago, sandflea316 said:

Didn't think that was an option being it's was his Semi-Custom series

From the experiment I did, the trigger system of the 1911 does not function reliably over time with the trigger weights of less than 700 to 650 grams and below. sear leaf spring not always react . This is the reason I perfected and  it works on one of my gun  with 550 grams since 2018 without change and  in other  gun  with 650 grams.

In 2018 when I spoke with Shay he told me that he manages to make a trigger of 1 lb  but it requires a lot of time. And I don't know how long it will last until there are hammer falls.

Edited July 24, 2023 by yigal

[ltdmstr]

1. Power Custom fixture allows you to cut primary and secondary sear surfaces and hammer hooks at different angles and depths.  2. Optical comparator allows you to examine/compare hammer hooks, sear nose and mating surfaces/contact area at 40-100x so you can actually see what you're doing instead of guessing.  3. Lots of trail and error until you get it right.

[yigal]

34 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

1. Power Custom fixture allows you to cut primary and secondary sear surfaces and hammer hooks at different angles and depths.  2. Optical comparator allows you to examine/compare hammer hooks, sear nose and mating surfaces/contact area at 40-100x so you can actually see what you're doing instead of guessing.  3. Lots of trail and error until you get it right.

I have seen several such works. But unfortunately the shooter checks and calibrates them every week. The reason is that I have seen several times how they were disqualified in competitions for automatic fire or stopped during training because the gun fired bursts.

[StefVanHauwe]

I changed the sub 1lb on my open guns to a ~2lb (changed out springs, incl. leaf spring), because it was way too sensitive, for example to prep the trigger (and therefor also too dangerous for competition purposes). For me personally 2lb is the sweet spot beween a light, but more importantly, a safe and reliable trigger. Except for the high level pro-shooters, I don't think regular competitors gain alot with a sub 1lb trigger, but they can loose alot.

[yigal]

13 minutes ago, StefVanHauwe said:

I changed the sub 1lb on my open guns to a ~2lb (changed out springs, incl. leaf spring), because it was way too sensitive, for example to prep the trigger (and therefor also too dangerous for competition purposes). For me personally 2lb is the sweet spot beween a light, but more importantly, a safe and reliable trigger. Except for the high level pro-shooters, I don't think regular competitors gain alot with a sub 1lb trigger, but they can loose alot.

i think that 1.5 lb is very good trigger for any 1911/2011 gun that use leaf spring.

since i don't use  L.S.  i can use  liter trigger set. but i found that 1.5lb  is o.k. for me.

[StefVanHauwe]

11 minutes ago, yigal said:

i think that 1.5 lb is very good trigger for any 1911/2011 gun that use leaf spring.

since i don't use  L.S.  i can use  liter trigger set. but i found that 1.5lb  is o.k. for me.

Indeed at the end always the individual shooters' preference

[shred]

6 hours ago, StefVanHauwe said:

I changed the sub 1lb on my open guns to a ~2lb (changed out springs, incl. leaf spring), because it was way too sensitive, for example to prep the trigger (and therefor also too dangerous for competition purposes). For me personally 2lb is the sweet spot beween a light, but more importantly, a safe and reliable trigger. Except for the high level pro-shooters, I don't think regular competitors gain alot with a sub 1lb trigger, but they can loose alot.

FWIW I've shot several world champions pistols over the years and while they all have good triggers, I can think of only one that was noticeably under 2 lbs and that was TGO who complained that after just one empty chamber slide drop that he'd have to go re-stone it.  Stoeger's Production pistol he'd whip everyone with had a trigger most B-class shooters would turn their noses up at.  Reliability trumps weight I think.

 

[sandflea316]

Hmm.. I guess the consensus is 1lb and lower not the way to go.  I've yet to shoot the gun in a match so maybe I'll not notice it too much.  Won't hurt to try

[fredseviltwin]

I am only replying to this thread with a question regarding the Karl Lippard A3 cam/hammer. 
http://karllippard.com/military/docs/A3-Sear-install.pdf

[Bigzona]

34 minutes ago, shred said:

  Reliability trumps weight I think.

 

.....and safety

 

trigger prepping where appropriate on a stage while moving aggressively with a sub 1lb trigger likely isn't ideal.

[yigal]

5 minutes ago, Bigzona said:

.....and safety

 

trigger prepping where appropriate on a stage while moving aggressively with a sub 1lb trigger likely isn't ideal.

in CZ TSO trigger is about 1 lb in many of them and it's comfortable for  use. but this guns have bigger pre travel  and wider trigger than any 1911 guns. and most important thing that cz don't use  sear leaf spring.

[Bigzona]

Fair. My comment was in relation to 1911/2011 platform. I haven't shot the TSO or Checkmate.

[858]

1 hour ago, yigal said:

in CZ TSO trigger is about 1 lb in many of them and it's comfortable for  use. but this guns have bigger pre travel  and wider trigger than any 1911 guns. and most important thing that cz don't use  sear leaf spring.

 

My TSO trigger is 10 ounces and my CM is a little over 1 pound. They don't feel as light as they are and I've never had a problem related to the pull weight. I would not want a sub 1lb straight pull trigger though. 

[CHA-LEE]

A sub 1lb 1911/2011 trigger job is possible. But as many have already pointed out that light of a trigger is on the ragged edge of reliability. At least in the Action Shooting sports use case (Rage Blasting tens of thousands of rounds every year in sometimes sub optimal range conditions). 

 

When I started shooting I also fell into the "I need a super light trigger to shoot better" fallacy which really doesn't have much improvement on match performance in of itself. When the buzzer goes off everyone is smashing the crap out of the trigger with 10+ lbs of force most of the time so does a super light trigger make a difference in that situation?

 

I will take a short and crisp action trigger that is heavy any day over a mushy or creepy super light trigger. Being able to feel a definitive difference between the take up prep and sear push through is important. My preferred trigger weight is in the 2.5 - 3.5lb range. But I have also shot 5+ lb trigger guns without seeing much difference in my hit quality on target.

 

Learning how to pull the trigger without displacing the sights during that process is an important skill that we all need to continually hone. Super light triggers mask peoples problems with pulling the trigger properly. People with trigger pull skill issues will always battle poor or inconsistent hit quality at speed.

 

The sobering truth that every shooter needs to face at some point is that mastering trigger control takes time, effort, and regular practice. That skill can't be bought like a super light trigger can. At some point you can't buy or equipment race your way out of improving raw marksmanship skills.

Edited July 25, 2023 by CHA-LEE

[MikeBurgess]

1 hour ago, CHA-LEE said:

Learning how to pull the trigger without displacing the sights during that process is an important skill that we all need to continually hone. Super light triggers mask peoples problems with pulling the trigger properly. People with trigger pull skill issues will always battle poor or inconsistent hit quality at speed.

 

The sobering truth that every shooter needs to face at some point is that mastering trigger control takes time, effort, and regular practice. That skill can't be bought like a super light trigger can. At some point you can't buy or equipment race your way out of improving raw marksmanship skills.

This, so much this.

 

one of the best things to happen to my shooting was learning to shoot a revolver well. that long hard DA trigger forces you to get the trigger pull right. 

[donnyglock]

When the buzzer goes off we are all giving it ten pounds of pull. 

[yigal]

2 hours ago, donnyglock said:

When the buzzer goes off we are all giving it ten pounds of pull. 

 

 

It doesn't matter how much really  your trigger pull weight , but for the friends you can always say that you have a trigger  under 1 pound.

[ltdmstr]

If bullseye shooters can put all their shots in a 10x at 25 yards with a 3-1/2 lb trigger, we should be able to do the same when we're banging away at human-size targets and big pieces of steel at far shorter distances.  From having shot and worked on 1911/2011s for 30+ years, I'd say somewhere around 2 lb. with minimal take up, clean/crisp/positive break, and positive reset is where it's at.  Most sub-2 lb pulls are due to 15-17 lb. mainsprings which result in a mushy, less than positive feel.  And that mushy feel is far more detrimental to fast/accurate shooting than a slightly heavier pull weight.  But, that's just my two cents worth.  I'm sure someone will come on and tell us they love their 1 lb trigger with 15 lb mainspring, titanium sear spring, etc.  Oh, and don't forget the titanium hammer for faster lock-time!  

[IHAVEGAS]

Two years past I watched a GM drop a loaded gun while holstering at make ready, last year I had to change britches due to an open gun going off when the shooter holstered it (a stone fragment whopped me in the leg and it took a moment to realize that it was only a harmless bit of stone) , and there is the USPSA fatality where a shooter sort of fumbled his gun without dropping it and it went off while he was trying to get ahold of it (as I understand it), etc. 

 

All that to say that I think keeping the guns drop safe is very very important. If you can go sub 1 lb, shoot the gun throughout its lifetime and still have a drop safe gun, no worries then. 

[twodownzero]

This thread makes me think USPSA should have a minimum trigger weight.  I can't believe people would take this kind of risk for whatever minor performance improvement they think they're going to get from that.