Tips to get sub 1 lb trigger pull

[mikeg1005]

2 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

If bullseye shooters can put all their shots in a 10x at 25 yards with a 3-1/2 lb trigger, we should be able to do the same when we're banging away at human-size targets and big pieces of steel at far shorter distances.  

 

Precision shooting and hammering away in USPSA a 2 different things.  A light trigger lets you get away with a lot more with regards to mashing it and/or having not an ideal grip... two things that bullseye shooters don't do.  

 

Whatever weight you decide on... just make sure its 100% reliable and will last forever.  Safety aspect aside, whatever gain you will have from the light trigger will be instantly nullified if that thing starts having hammer follow or doubling during a match.  

 

I've known/know a few people with super light triggers.  They were either oblivious to the fact it won't last forever and started having issue or acknowledged it wasn't going to last forever and had to service it periodically... if that's what you want to do then go for it but in the big picture having a gun that works 100% with minimal effort is better for overall match performance.  

Edited August 1, 2023 by mikeg1005

[Dirty_J]

31 minutes ago, twodownzero said:

This thread makes me think USPSA should have a minimum trigger weight.  I can't believe people would take this kind of risk for whatever minor performance improvement they think they're going to get from that.

You must be super fun at parties. 

 

My CZ Czechmate and all mu PCC’s have sub-1# trigger pulls… not an issue. 
 

If you’re not safe with your gun handling… the pull weight it kind of irrelevant. And if you are… the trigger weight is a nonissue. 

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, Dirty_J said:

You must be super fun at parties. 

 

Insults never advance your opinion. 

1 hour ago, Dirty_J said:

If you’re not safe with your gun handling… the pull weight it kind of irrelevant. And if you are… the trigger weight is a nonissue. 

Is there any long term professional shooter who has never been dq'd ? Things happen when fallible humans seek maximum speed. 

[Dirty_J]

7 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Insults never advance your opinion. 

Is there any long term professional shooter who has never been dq'd ? Things happen when fallible humans seek maximum speed. 

Of course there are “long term professional shooters” that have never DQ’d. 
 

There are also C class folks that can’t keep their finger off the trigger and the muzzle pointing downrange at any speed. 
 

The trigger pull weights of either of the aforementioned competitors would have little bearing upon their likelihood to DQ. You’re going to see 180’s far more than you do ND’s.   
 

The top level competitors also have much better bearing on their physical limits and don’t often exceed them at major matches. Can’t say as much for a lower level competitor in my experience. 
 

I’d be far more inclined to wear a plate carrier RO’ing a local club match than I would the super squad at a USPSA major event. 
 

Stop trying to blame gear for shooter incompetence. 

[IHAVEGAS]

7 hours ago, Dirty_J said:

Of course there are “long term professional shooters” that have never DQ’d. 

 

Can anybody name one? 

[twodownzero]

On 8/1/2023 at 1:11 PM, Dirty_J said:

You must be super fun at parties. 

 

My CZ Czechmate and all mu PCC’s have sub-1# trigger pulls… not an issue. 
 

If you’re not safe with your gun handling… the pull weight it kind of irrelevant. And if you are… the trigger weight is a nonissue. 

 

I would generally agree that pull weight is not a safe substitute for gun handling skills, but a pull weight that is so significantly below the weight of the gun that it'd be virtually inevitable that it'd discharge if dropped is not safe.

 

I hope you never have an ND of some kind, but I can virtually guarantee that if you do, you will have a very hard time finding any expert witness who will testify that a firearm with a 1 pound trigger is safe.  It isn't and that is ridiculous.  I actually clicked on this thread because I thought it was a joke, but apparently it's not.

 

I have nothing against light triggers, but 1 pound is dangerous, period.

[IHAVEGAS]

16 hours ago, twodownzero said:

it'd discharge if dropped is not safe.

 

I tend to think back on Rob Leatham's dq at the single stack nationals a few years back, as it was described to me lost control of the gun when it contacted a port.

 

I figure if the great one can have a dropped loaded gun oopsie then I certainly can as well. 

[Dirty_J]

It sounds like the aversion is to SAO guns.
 

Perhaps we should make a rule against them… or require a drop safety. That would take care of the situation far better that a pull weight restriction ever could.  

[yigal]

18 hours ago, twodownzero said:

 

 

I hope you never have an ND of some kind, but I can virtually guarantee that if you do, you will have a very hard time finding any expert witness who will testify that a firearm with a 1 pound trigger is safe.  It isn't and that is ridiculous.  I actually clicked on this thread because I thought it was a joke, but apparently it's not.

Just remember that even a gun with a 10 pound trigger pool weight  is not safe.

[CHA-LEE]

As shown by the responses in this thread both for and against specific trigger weights this is a tricky subject. I am not a fan of putting a warning label, helmet, air bag, seat belt, or arbitrary chosen limits on something because a subset of people can't stop doing stupid stuff. The following mantra holds true and always will....Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

If someone wants to use a 1lb trigger on their gun, go for it. I honestly don't care because they will also take ownership of the associated Reliability, Liability and Risk associated with that choice. We are adults and as such we need to own our decisions. We can advise people to make more prudent choices but we can't and shouldn't force people to make a choice. Freedom isn't free. Freedom affords people the opportunity to make the wrong choice. Accountability and Freedom of Choice are tied together. Choose wisely my friends as the wrong choice when playing games with deadly weapons can result in fatal Accountability. 

[IHAVEGAS]

4 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

I honestly don't care because they will also take ownership of the associated Reliability, Liability and Risk associated with that choice.

 

Sort of. https://www.1911forum.com/threads/a-tragedy-uspsa-range-officer-shot.1027368/

[CHA-LEE]

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Sort of. https://www.1911forum.com/threads/a-tragedy-uspsa-range-officer-shot.1027368/

 

I am trying to understand the correlation to my comment. Was the person who dropped their gun (Fumbled their reholster) not liable for their actions?

 

Was that a tragic accident? Absolutely. Accident or not, the person fumbling the gun is still liable for their actions.

 

I also use that very example for shooters who like to smash their gun back into their holster after making ready is a proven fatal mistake behavior.

 

Another common example of poor choices is someone doing a "Home Brew Dremel Trigger Job" on their gun and end up with an AD in the holster and a bullet in their leg. Or better yet, the people who shoot themselves in the leg during the draw because their booger picker is on the trigger before the gun even clears the holster. Yet another poor choice.

 

Freedom = Choices. Not all choices are good ones. Being an adult means that you OWN all of your choices, even the bad ones.

Edited August 3, 2023 by CHA-LEE

[IHAVEGAS]

4 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

I am trying to understand the correlation to my comment. Was the person who dropped their gun (Fumbled their reholster) not liable for their actions?

 

Liable certainly. But the risk is not limited to the shooter. Play stupid games, sometimes it is the other person that wins stupid prizes. 

[warpspeed]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:02 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Can anybody name one? 

 

I can't remember if BE ever did.  

 

 

[Powder Finger]

Kind of…. 86 or 87 fipt cop car hood

need to add it was not connected to this subject just a shot that happened to touch something too close 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Powder Finger

[twodownzero]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:14 AM, yigal said:

Just remember that even a gun with a 10 pound trigger pool weight  is not safe.

 

Trigger pull weight is not a substitute for safe gun handling, but a 1 pound trigger might not even require anything we'd regard as "handling."

[shred]

Years ago at the Steel Challenge (pre USPSA bought) in CA, they had a lot of side matches.  Once the Olympic Rapid Fire people had a setup of their targets and pistols you could use to shoot a demo of what they did.

 

The number of ADs into the dirt was impressive, even from pro-level steel shooters used to "light" 1911 triggers.  ORF pistol trigger weights were measured in fractions of an ounce.   

 

When I shot it, I made sure I was on target before even feeling for the trigger because it went off as soon as I touched it.

 

 

 

[moverfive]

Something that no one has stated- a trigger pull weight is not a single weight.  There are two components to a trigger pull's weight - (1) the reset and then (2) the break.

 

I can do two trigger jobs with the exact same overall weight (per a gauge) but yet will feel completely different...because of varying the weights of those two components.

 

Most trigger jobs done for the average shooter (or to someone unknown) will be the infamous sub-two pound trigger job.  The problem is that the reset portion (the amount of pressure on the trigger return) will be very light.  Thus the majority of the 2lb weight will be on the break (the pressure between the sear and hammer), due to less complexity in doing the trigger job and higher longevity of it.

 

What is a "light reset?"  Think about the time when you tried to make some very fast shots (usually on close targets) and when you pulled the trigger, nothing happened...the trigger didn't reset quick enough and thus a "trigger jam."

 

How do you measure the reset - the amount of pressure it takes to move the trigger from its resting position to "the wall."   Then the break component of the overall trigger weight is the amount of pressure required to cause the hammer to fall when the trigger is at "the wall."

 

Bottom line - for anyone that really knows how to do a trigger job, giving a single trigger pull weight means absolutely nothing.

 

 

[HOGRIDER]

I also consider the "residual weight" to be a part of the equation.........IOW, there is friction (weight, commonly 6-12oz) between the hammer hooks and sear face being applied by the mainspring alone!  Without a sear spring!

 

IMO, a safe fire control system needs at least 16oz on the disconnector..........

 

 

 

[synchronicity]

My 50BMG target rifles have trigger pulls measured in ounces.  My revolvers and pistols have pulls measured in pounds

- it all depends on how much movement I am going to do with the weapon in a ready to fire condition.