My first USPSA DQ

[nkresho]

Afternoon all,

Figured i'd shame myself a little here as it's the right place to do it.

 

Shot my fifth match today and made it through two stages before it happened...

 

Per the rules, 10.4.3 

10.4.3 A shot which occurs while loading, reloading or unloading a firearm. This includes any shot fired during the procedures outlined in Rule 8.3.1 and Rule 8.3.7.

 

Shooting a shadow 2 in carry optics.  DA/SA, so after loading the hammer must be lowered before the first shot.  No decocking lever, so it has to be done by hand.

 

I went to make ready and as i always do, drew the pistol, aimed downrange and toward the ground, inserted a full mag, racked the slide to chamber the first round, and went to decock the hammer.  Pistol remained aimed in a safe direction, at the ground maybe 8-10' in front of me, downrange.  As i went to decock, one of two things happened.  I either pinched the hammer too weakly and it slipped midway through or i let it fall (while pinched) too quickly.  I can't recall exactly which happened.  The slide did not (that i recall) hit me in the hand or fingers, although playing it backward in my head i'd think it would have.  I do pinch the hammer making the "OK" sign with my hand and my other fingers tend to be around and above, but not touching the slide.

 

Regardless, i let one slip while making ready.   It sucks, and is totally my fault.  I am very happy i always am very conscious of my muzzle direction during this procedure as it does include my finger touching the trigger so that the hammer will be able to be (gently) dropped.

 

I've practiced this method hundreds if not a thousand times with no issues.

 

Point-forward, i will obviously be ultra cognizant when decocking.

 

Live and learn.

 

Thanks for listening.

Edited May 7, 2023 by nkresho

[Nathanb]

Stop pinching. Jam your thumb in between the frame and hammer and gently roll your thumb out of the way 

[nkresho]

I will certianly give that a try.  Thanks.

 

Weak or strong thumb?

 

I'll watch some more videos.

Edited May 7, 2023 by nkresho

[jubi351]

Weak thumb.

[shred]

I pinch my weak hand trigger finger in front of the hammer. thumb behind. 

 

I expect you'd feel it if the slide smacked your fingers.  Long long ago I had a hammer follow on a 1911 during a match, so reached up with my WH thumb and recocked the hammer.  Right about when I let go I thought "that was dumb" as the sear didn't catch and it fired as soon as the hammer fell, way before my thumb could get out of the way.  Had a nice scar for a while.

 

 

 

[nkresho]

Ouch.  Yeah, that's a once and done kind of mistake.  Pretty sure mine from today will be as well.

 

I will have to try a few alternative ways in dryfire to get what will be more reliable to decock.

 

It's nice that it's an untimed component, so i can take however long i need to to do it perfectly every time.

 

 

[Zachjet]

I kinda pinch it opposite how you did it…weak pointer finger in-between the hammer and firing pin 

pull the trigger.  Let the hammer go slowly until it fully forward 

[PA_USPSA]

I make an L with my weak hand with the four fingers touching each other and the thumb out at 90 degrees to the fingers.  Place your weak hand thumb between the hammer and the gun and slowly rotate your fingers forward while pressing the trigger with your strong hand.  This will slowly roll your weak hand thumb out of the way of the hammer and gently lower it to the firing pin.  Practice this many times in dry fire until you are comfortable with it.  Then try it with live fire.

[R.Elliott]

This is the thumb roll technique.  Very foolproof.

[StefVanHauwe]

DQ's can happen, best to just learn from it and move on. In addition to the video above, this gives a little more details:

 

 

[nkresho]

Thanks.  Yeah.  That video is the best one i've seen yet, with detailed explanation.  He also brings up the slipping issue i am pretty sure i had.  

 

I feel like every match i want to find one or just a few issues i need to work on.  Focus on them and do my best to make some improvement in that area for the subsequent match.  This one wasn't an area I expected to need to work on, but will certainly be the first item needing additional training and refinement.

 

Consensus here does seem to be the weak-hand thumb between the hammer and the frame, so i will start there and add that to my dryfire routine until it's natural-feeling.

[StefVanHauwe]

You're welcome, and don't worry, the learning will never stop  

[nkresho]

I appreciate the kind words.  I also appreciate all the videos you put together for us.  Thanks

[Bigzona]

When I shot CO with a shadow 2, this happened to me as well a couple of matches in, and I quickly learned about the rolling thumb or even index finger method.  Much more consistent and safer. In my case, sweaty fingers messed up the pinch method for me.

[ColoradoNick]

That sucks man. Hoping I don't jinx myself here but I have a shadow 2 that I pinch the hammer on with my support hand to drop the hammer. Feels more secure to me than any other method and I've done it thousands of times. If my hands were that sweaty I don't think I could grip the gun appropriately to begin with. Hope you find something better that works for you! 

[nkresho]

If anything, hopefully this thread acts as a little PSA nobody knew they needed.  I, for sure, would have thought it was an issue i'd never have.

 

Got nearly an hour in so far of the thumb roll move and it's just now starting to feel less awkward.  Initially, I felt like I had less fine motor control of the hammer as i let it down.  After than hour it feels considerably better.  I figure a few more days dry fire then try it out at the static range later this week and i should be good to go.

 

Pinch method (sides of the hammer) i think, may be a percentage less secure than another method (index finger or thumb) that puts some skin between the hammer and firing pin.  So I am now all-in training myself to do it this new way.   If it's 1% less likely for an AD, I am happy with it. Totally worth the training time and energy.

Edited May 8, 2023 by nkresho

[Blackstone45]

13 hours ago, nkresho said:

If anything, hopefully this thread acts as a little PSA nobody knew they needed.  I, for sure, would have thought it was an issue i'd never have.

 

Got nearly an hour in so far of the thumb roll move and it's just now starting to feel less awkward.  Initially, I felt like I had less fine motor control of the hammer as i let it down.  After than hour it feels considerably better.  I figure a few more days dry fire then try it out at the static range later this week and i should be good to go.

 

Pinch method (sides of the hammer) i think, may be a percentage less secure than another method (index finger or thumb) that puts some skin between the hammer and firing pin.  So I am now all-in training myself to do it this new way.   If it's 1% less likely for an AD, I am happy with it. Totally worth the training time and energy.

If using the pinch method, make sure you take the tension off the hammer by pulling the hammer back/down slightly before you pull the trigger. This ensures that your fingers are applying enough force to counter the spring tension. If you just pinch the hammer and then pull the trigger, the amount of spring tension behind the hammer may catch you by surprise and cause it to slip, which is what I think happened to you.

[nkresho]

That's a really good point.  I agree.  I'm running a 12# hammer spring, so not terribly heavy, but preloading the tension, rearward, will absolutely require you to apply adequate fingertip pressure laterally to keep the hammer pinched.

 

I think you might be on to something with that assessment.

 

All it took was the added psychological pressure of a match and i neglected those tiny yest extremely important details.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by nkresho

[Zincwarrior]

This always scared me about CZs and similar clones. I have seen it happen with good shooters trying to be careful. 

[HesedTech]

On 5/7/2023 at 2:21 PM, nkresho said:

i let one slip while making ready.

Not the first nor will you be the last. I saw a new shooter on their first match and first stage do the same thing. What a way to start a competitive shooting career.

 

As far as the "method" of decocking a CZ goes, I've been using the "pinch" with support hand thumb and index finger and have never slipped it once (on CZ and Tangfoglios). 

 

Here's what a GM told me when I started, "The load and make ready as well as the unload and show clear belong to you. No time limits, no pressure, so take your time and don't **** them up."

 

When I practice, dry and live, I practice both load and unload so they are burned into my habit patterns. What ever method you choose do it the same way every time you handle the gun.

 

BTW, I never understood the history behind requiring Production and CO pistols with DA having to be started with hammer forward. Personally if safety was the main issue the rule should be hammer back with safety on, just like the rest of the hammer fired division guns.

Edited May 9, 2023 by HesedTech

[Blackstone45]

9 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

BTW, I never understood the history behind requiring Production and CO pistols with DA having to be started with hammer forward. Personally if safety was the main issue the rule should be hammer back with safety on, just like the rest of the hammer fired division guns.

Maybe to keep things fair with those striker fired guns that tend to have a heavier trigger pull than your average single action trigger? Or maybe to try and keep those guns that are decock only competitive. But I agree, these days hammer down on guns with extended firing pins, reduced power firing pin springs and no firing pin block can and has lead to nasty accidents when a gun gets dropped and lands on the hammer.

[HesedTech]

1 minute ago, Blackstone45 said:

Or maybe to try and keep those guns that are decock only competitive

You are probably spot on here. I tend to forget the Beretta, for example, was well used at one time. Ben Stoeger started his shooting career with one.

 

 

[Jim Watson]

I shot a CZ75 for IDPA SSP for a while, no slips whilst lowering the hammer, but it was a "pre-B" with a big serrated hammer spur to grab.  But I was never not nervous about it.

 

Nowadays I only pull the trigger when I want to hear that loud noise, and when I want to shoot SSP or Production, I have a good sound striker fired pistol.  I worked with a decocking lever for a while but the gun lacked in other areas.   

 

[whan]

I switched to a DA/SA Tanfo at the beginning of the year, previously only shot striker or SA guns. Was taught the thumb roll by experienced S2 shooters, and it feels very secure for me after a bit of practice. Key thing is that it doesn't rely on friction at all, so no real chance for slippage. Also easier to control the speed of the hammer, especially towards the end, by rotating the thumb out more slowly for the last bit 

[Farmer]

If they would DA from 1/2 cock that would probably be the safest way to holster it especially with ext firing pin and no block.