whan

Absolutely - most clubs are made up of casual shooters that will never hope to place well at nationals/areas or probably even ever go to one of those matches. Classifiers are great to help those shooters have a sense of progress. This forum is filled with more serious shooters, so you get a bias of people who focus on match performance and less on classification, but that's not reflective of the norm. I personally am a mix of both - I finally just made M recently, so care less now about classifiers but it is still an achievement I am proud of having made, especially since it was my goal when I first started in USPSA 4 years ago. On top of that, I do believe that part of USPSA's brand value is that classifications actually mean something. A flawed system, but being a GM or even M does mean something even outside of the competitive shooting world. People don't really care about IDPA or multigun classifications in the same way. PCSL will take quite a while to have their classifications mean something in the broader gunosphere

As someone who shot single stack seriously for a while, the % difference in capacity isn't the whole picture. Because of USPSA rules requiring max 32 round stages, there is little functional difference between having 24 and 20 rounds in terms of stage planning. Generally will still only require 1 reload in both scenarios, leaving plenty of buffer for makeups In single stack, it's a much bigger difference because you'll often have things like 8 round positions with 2 steel, or 4 and 6 round positions in close proximity. Much higher risk having to go 1:1 with a major SS gun in the former, and the second would force a reload for major where you could blend together for minor. As a result the risk vs. major scoring tradeoff is a lot closer to parity. I agree with you and lean the same direction. LO has already become immensely popular, I doubt even a new BoD would kill it or roll it into CO as a megadivision. The most logical step is to roll CO back to match IPSC production optics more closely

Nvm it looks like OP already tried my advice

Got the P+ for a 2011 as well, the Staccato P actually fits pretty snug, to the point where there’s decent retention even without the lock

Thanks for the feedback all, great to know. Our range (Richmond RRGC) isn't super dusty, sort of just dirt + some gravel. Sounds like unless it's muddy after range or I kick dirt into the mag, won't need to clean during match, at least for a local. I don't mind taking a bit of a risk at locals and trying to see when I start seeing issues

Not the grip, but from what I understand the barrel weight affects cycle time, as in a browning style action the barrel needs to tilt upwards and unlock before the slide is able to move rearward. A heavier barrel unlocks slower and functionally also slows slide movement.

About to hop into LO after shooting CO and SS for a long time. I’ve generally had pretty good luck with Tanfo, P320 and 9mm wilson 1911 mags and never really got any malfunctions while cleaning them only once every few months or so. Know that others on my range will brush theirs between stages if any hit the ground. I know 2011 mags are more sensitive, but in your experience is it needed to that level? Or could i get away with just cleaning after each match instead (obviously for majors I don’t mind cleaning between stages if necessary)

It started as 10, to match production. Was too low to attract participation. I do think 15 round CO is the sweet spot now that LO exists. I for one am happy that Prod moved to 15. While it's not going to revive the division by any means, I bet there will be a slight bump in popularity

And then now that Atlas has become well-known, you have people wanting to even flex on them by getting Infinity which is considered higher prestige. The video by 1911 syndicate made them mainstream across timmies IMO, in addition to another relatively recent one by Colion But I guess gun culture has always been that way, a lot of people who mostly collect vs. actually shoot, and where there is a strong emphasis on having the most top tier or most rugged gear, even if you'll never come close to utilizing those capabilities. I had to talk a number of friends into not getting the Trijicon RMRcc on their CCW guns (because it kind of sucks), who were literally only going to buy it because of the brand perception Granted, I'm not immune to it either, I do love custom guns, my AR-15 is a KAC SR-15 (bought prior to the GarandThumb Video and crazy hype), and I use a JP5 for PCC.

Have mentioned before in other threads, but for our club seeing a lot of open shooters moving to LO at least part time. CO still larger, and has some of the top shooters, most of whom are planning to stay in CO. I'm probably the only one that's in the top 10% CO of our club planning to moving to LO at the moment

I agree, there's always been far more money in the tactical / "normie" market for guns. A lot larger population, including people who are more of the collector type who will pay up for perceived status symbols vs. actual performance. On top of that, they usually barely shoot, so almost no warranty claims to deal with. Much more daunting to serve the competition market and know your gun is going to have to hold up to being shot 10-20k rounds a year on average It does require a strong brand name, Infinity and Atlas are now at that point being well known, so that people with those guns can brag to those with "only" stacccatos how nice their guns are. But reality is that there are full custom gun makers that will make nicer guns to your exact spec for the same or lower price.

I think as a standalone division, it's great. USPSA divisions should take into account what's popular in the broader gun community (to a reasonable extent). Obviously 9mm 2011s have become very popular, but even outside of that you have lots of striker guns with magwells and a large variety of aftermarket parts bolted on. LO is the right place to allow any non-compensated 9mm gun to play IMO, instead of what's happened to CO. I think eventually having LO provides the opportunity to narrow CO to be a less racy division and one more aligned with the original intent of being factory-type guns with minimal mods. Ideally no need to buy aftermarket basepads to be competitive (personally want 15 round cap), no thumb rests, no ultra heavy brass grips (45oz weight limit maybe). It should be one where you can just buy a glock 34, holosun, some mags, and a holster from a local gun store and go be competitive. Finally, I am lazy and do like to spend money on fancy guns. Love custom guns, and chose to shoot SS minor instead of production for my first 3 years of USPSA just so I could shoot a custom 1911 instead of a Tanfo or Shadow2. Don't reload, still shoot factory ammo as I really just want to buy gear that works and go shoot instead of having to tweak/tune stuff on my own. Hoping to make M class in CO on my next classifier (84.3% now) but will jump to LO afterwards / once my gun from Venom arrives

Buy an aluminum mainspring housing to swap in, that will cut probably 2 oz? May not be perfect match in terms of grip texturing alignment between grip and MSH but probably not a huge issue if you're considering cutting it up as well. You probably can also do a cut on sides similar to how infinity does for their grips

Dot for me. While I think given engagement distances / types it’s less of an advantage for CCW, it is still fundamentally a force multiplier for your handgun. Between the comp’d slide on my P365XL Macro Comp, and the dot, it gives me a lot of confidence in my capabilities for what is otherwise a very small and light handgun. Have shot a few outlaw CCW matches and found that this setup doesn’t leave my really wanting anything more for EDC

I almost went subminor shooting blazer brass 115gr 9mm out of a 5" 1911 at a major. 125.9PF. Granted, Chrono was low for everyone that day, but it seems normal factory range ammo can sometimes be close to that 125pf floor

I'd love CO to be that way. Even though I'm moving to LO (mostly because my love of custom guns, I started in SS after all), a more "practical" CO that consisted of mostly duty type guns would be super interesting. Would be the most "real world" type division, with most guns being similar to what you might use for home defense or LE would use for duty (thinking relatively stock glocks, M&P, P320s with flashlights). I'd definitely still shoot it from time to time to keep my proficiency with my HD P320 (vs. won't shoot CO in current form once I move to LO)

I bet CO actually will still be pretty popular, even in the current iteration where they are indeed very similar divisions. In speaking with most of our CO heat at my local club (biggest matches at 130+ people per), most are planning to stick with CO - it's actually that they see not a lot of reason to go to LO since it's so similar. That said, I do think once LO becomes final, CO should be moved to a more restrictive ruleset using 15 round capacity (to match the likely Prod 15), and a box that effectively prohibits thumb rest slide stops. At least then they'll be reasonably different divisions

I'd argue it's fortunate. A tiny percentage of USPSA shooters are pros who actually spend most their time dedicated to it, the rest of us are hobbyists doing it for fun. For people who are already working 60+ hours a week or have young kids, of course most of them are going to pick being able to use easy to find guns + factory ammo and being able to get out and shoot matches easier, vs. waiting for a custom .40 2011 and spending extra time loading ammo. FWIW I voted to keep LO as minor only (and will be moving there from CO once my gun is built). It's mainly because I have no desire to load ammo - sorting through brass, cleaning, buying components, developing a load, QC'ing, etc. I don't enjoy it, and it's just another chore (like cleaning guns) and would rather be dry-firing instead. I'd rather be able to just get bulk 9mm shipped to my house at 25CPR and just shoot

I mean, I'd think that having easier logistics like competitive out of box guns, factory ammo, etc. are objectively good things. USPSA isn't supposed to be Formula 1, where gear development is a key performance component of the sport IMO. Things have pretty much always gotten easier for each generation since the beginning of time. Every generation probably has complained that the ones after it "are soft". From 1880s people using horse and buggies complaining that 1920s people have Ford Model T cars, to 1920s people complaining that 1960s people have 200hp+ cars with electric starters and highway systems, to 1960s people complaining that 2000s people have fuel injected automatic cars that are reliable, etc.

Glad to hear it’s held up well for him. Initial impressions for me positive, seems to get decently bright enough even for high sun days, although not nuclear like the green 507 comp. But don’t envision any issues Will be a while til my LO gun is built but will likely live there

Thanks so much! Looks like can either heat/form fit like you did or even just chop the area off if needed since retention doesn’t depend on the shell

I'd be interested in seeing a pic of where it doesn't fit if you are able to - I don't have my 2011 yet so trying to see figure out where it might be blocked

I just bought the Hydra P for my LO gun. Was debating whether to do the Hydra (non P), but liked the P for the security of knowing the gun won’t fall out if holster is unlocked. If thumb rest interferes with body I’ll probably just open up the channel with a dremel, but supposedly it’s designed to fit a thumb-rest (and you can see the cutout for even a frame mounted one)

Agree that the dot serves as a perfectly good racker. My new build from Venom will have a frame mounted thumbrest. I’ve tried various types, and the only one that really does a good job IMO is the tevo one, mostly because of how close to the grip it is. Because it’s to the point where your thumb has no choice but to rest on it, it serves as a better index point and pretty much works passively (don’t need to apply any pressure to it)

On green 507 comp, 2moa is extremely bright in my experience