158 gr RN, which one for ICORE?

[DukeSoprano]

Trying to pick a bullet for reloading to aid in faster reloads with moon clips. I have a few at home and have tried SWC and hollow points but I want to see if I can be faster with a round nose, but there are flatter RN and more pointed, looking for pointed.

 

I see Berrys has what I think I am looking for and Blue Bullets has a 160?

 

I already have a taper crimp die

 

Thanks

[Mcfoto]

I load 147 gr Blue bullets in .38 short colt. 

[Toolguy]

I like Bayou Bullets in 160 RN in Short Colt brass. Others have the same bullet. Blue Bullets are good. Don't get a flat point round nose. You want a rounded round nose. Anything with a flat point will want to hang up on you. When shooting reactive targets, bullet weight is king. You will get a more positive one shot knock down with a heavy bullet, and softer recoil with the same power factor as a lighter bullet.

[MikeBurgess]

any of the bullets that look like a 9mm round nose are good.

 

Blue Bullets has some

Ibeji Heads has 130 to 165 grainers 

 

 

lots of companies have them but some are listed under their 9mm bullets but you can order them sized .356 .357 or .358

 

[MikeyScuba]

I like the Ibeji's.

[10mmdave]

https://bangandclangllc.com/products/160-grain-38-357-and-9mm-rnnlg-sized-0-356-0-358-coated.html

[Fishbreath]

I'll second Bang and Clang. That plus N320 is the cleanest combination I've found out of my guns.

[AzShooter]

I'm with ToolGuy on this.  Blue bullet 160 grain Coated Lead Round Nose.  They load very fast and are most accurate in my 627.  I also use N 320 at just under 3 grains. ( I don't like to post loading data )

 

These work well in .38 shot colt, .38 special and even 9 mm.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

15 hours ago, Toolguy said:

When shooting reactive targets, bullet weight is king.

 

Folklore. The law of conservation of momentum disagrees. 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[310yuma]

147 or 160 bullets will work just  great, in my opinion  nothing but round nose as any thing flat will  find something to catch on  at the  wrong time. 

 

[Toolguy]

3 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

Folklore. The law of conservation of momentum disagrees. 

 

 

Maybe you could enlighten us? Many times my 160 bullets took down heavy plates in one shot that 115 gr. 9mm had to hit multiple times in a row to get them to fall.

Edited May 18, 2022 by Toolguy

[MikeyScuba]

  I use a magnet on the back of a popper to activate my swinger.  It lasted for years shooting 775fps icore loads until I went to open and a) knocked it off a few times (you CANNOT take it off by hand) and then it simply shattered due to the 124's going close to 1400fps.

[Fishbreath]

4 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

Folklore. The law of conservation of momentum disagrees. 

 

A bullet doesn't transfer all of its momentum into a steel target on impact. Some of it remains with the bullet or its fragments—it's very rare at best for a bullet to come to a dead stop the moment it hits a plate, then fall straight down.

 

A 115-grain bullet at 1115fps and a 160-grain bullet at 800fps carry the same momentum (roudning a bit), but the 115-grain bullet is going to impact about 40% more energetically, and a more energetic impact generally results in more momentum carried off in ricochets or fragmentation.

[GoPewPew]

1 hour ago, Fishbreath said:

 

A bullet doesn't transfer all of its momentum into a steel target on impact. Some of it remains with the bullet or its fragments—it's very rare at best for a bullet to come to a dead stop the moment it hits a plate, then fall straight down.

 

A 115-grain bullet at 1115fps and a 160-grain bullet at 800fps carry the same momentum (roudning a bit), but the 115-grain bullet is going to impact about 40% more energetically, and a more energetic impact generally results in more momentum carried off in ricochets or fragmentation.

 

Fair, but given the same bullet alloy composition which will fragment more easily and thus its fragments have more energy (less transferred to the plate)?

 

[Fishbreath]

34 minutes ago, GoPewPew said:

Fair, but given the same bullet alloy composition which will fragment more easily and thus its fragments have more energy (less transferred to the plate)?

 

That's a little beyond my roughly high school-level understanding of impact physics, unfortunately.

 

I would expect a less energetic impact to yield less fragmentation: you can tap a piece of glass with a hammer all day long, but if you wind up and give it a good hit, it shatters. Something as ductile as lead could very well behave differently than glass, though.

[pskys2]

I've been using BBI, simply because they are quick to ship, have had them in stock and the price is good.

Also used Bayou's but they tend to run slower.  

Not tried Blue Bullets, have used IBEJ for another cartridge and they seem to always be slow on shipping.

 

Any of the 160 grain Coated RN's are good, I load to 850 f/s as it's over PF but is more accurate, out of my guns, than lighter loads.

[regor]

22 minutes ago, Fishbreath said:

 

That's a little beyond my roughly high school-level understanding of impact physics, unfortunately.

 

I would expect a less energetic impact to yield less fragmentation: you can tap a piece of glass with a hammer all day long, but if you wind up and give it a good hit, it shatters. Something as ductile as lead could very well behave differently than glass, though.

 

But at the end of the day if the steel is calibrated and you call your shots then it really shouldn't matter.

 

I've been using the 115gr .358 Bayou's for my 929 this year and I really like them. They have a great profile and I personally prefer the snappy feel of 115s vs heavy bullets. I also found that they were very fast bullets, over 100fps, ~10PF higher than 115gr Berry's plated. Maybe that was a gas seal issue with the Berry's since they are .356, I didn't test any other 115gr .358s. Probably not helpful to OP unless they want to try 115s... 

Edited May 18, 2022 by regor

[Johnny_Chimpo]

8 hours ago, Toolguy said:

Maybe you could enlighten us? Many times my 160 bullets took down heavy plates in one shot that 115 gr. 9mm had to hit multiple times in a row to get them to fall.

 

I rely on physics not anecdotal observations

[Johnny_Chimpo]

7 hours ago, Fishbreath said:

 

A bullet doesn't transfer all of its momentum into a steel target on impact. Some of it remains with the bullet or its fragments—it's very rare at best for a bullet to come to a dead stop the moment it hits a plate, then fall straight down.

 

A 115-grain bullet at 1115fps and a 160-grain bullet at 800fps carry the same momentum (roudning a bit), but the 115-grain bullet is going to impact about 40% more energetically, and a more energetic impact generally results in more momentum carried off in ricochets or fragmentation.

 

As soft as the bullets we shoot are, I estimate that fragmentation is minimal and energy and momentum transfer is near perfect assuming a head on collision. 

 

Off angle impacts are pretty complex but I wager that the % of momentum and energy transfer will be roughly equal given bullets of different weights but equal power factors (since PF is nothing but momentum) and equal impact angles

[Toolguy]

I thought that science was about observing what happens, then figuring out why it happens. Silly me. I will stick with my "anecdotal observations" that have stood the test of time. Explaining why something works the way it does is secondary to winning the match.

[revoman]

1 hour ago, Toolguy said:

. Silly me. I will stick with my "anecdotal observations" that have stood the test of time. Explaining why something works the way it does is secondary to winning the match.

Now that is funny, I almost spit my Single Barrel JD out. I think I will do what Tool Guy said. 
 

✌

[Johnny_Chimpo]

2 hours ago, Toolguy said:

I thought that science was about observing what happens, then figuring out why it happens.

 

We figured out how kinetic energy transfers from one object to another over 200 years ago.  Your guess as to how it works isn't needed

[Toolguy]

OK.

[revoman]

1 hour ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

We figured out how kinetic energy transfers from one object to another over 200 years ago.  Your guess as to how it works isn't needed

So just a simple question. If 140 lb running back that is say 2 times faster than the 230 lb linemen hits this lineman while the lineman is standing still he will knock him over. Then the 230 lineman running at half the speed hits the 140 running back that is standing still. Then according to your logic the results will be the same. I have learned through out life that even though it states it in books and that is supposedly gospel, that is not how it works in the real world sometimes. Just my 2 cents. 
✌

[varminter22]

5 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

As soft as the bullets we shoot are, I estimate that fragmentation is minimal and energy and momentum transfer is near perfect assuming a head on collision. 

 

Off angle impacts are pretty complex but I wager that the % of momentum and energy transfer will be roughly equal given bullets of different weights but equal power factors (since PF is nothing but momentum) and equal impact angles

Interesting. 

 

So how do you explain the fact that heavier bullets (such as a 230 gr .45ACP @ 750 fps) knock a bowling pin farther than a lighter but faster 9mm/.38 bullet?