2022 Rulebook Released

[SSGGlock]

5 hours ago, matteekay said:

How is everyone reading the fault line rule? I read it as the shooter is only in-cover when they're inside of the physical fault, but another MD thought they operated as they do now and it was just implementing a standard of fault line length.

That’s my interpretation, ends where the fault line ends.

[SSGGlock]

17 hours ago, matteekay said:

 

Or at the very least ditched ESR/SSR and let everyone run moons. And I say that as someone with nothing buy major caliber six-shot guns.

 

Eight would have been nice, though. And/or let us put a dot on top and run with the semi-autos in CO.

Yeah, they could have done a lot with revolver. Allow 38 short colt with moons. 8-shot optic in CO. Or 8-shot in ESP. Why keep bug revolver at all. And ESR S&W no longer makes a .45 ACP revolver, 625s were stopped. But nope, the least represented division they kept the most restrictive. 

[SSGGlock]

9 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

It would of been nice to allow 8's in ESP, SSP and CO. Probably would of been fun shooting and I don't see how it would really hurt anything. 

I don’t see how it would’ve hurt anything, except someone’s feelings in ESP, get smoked with an 8-shot revolver.

[SSGGlock]

8 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I guess your club does alot of 18 round stages? Or downloaded starts? 

 

My club gets into kicks where 50% of the stages will be downloaded starts. It get's to the point you don't even load your mags after you finish shooting unless you know what the next stage is. 

 

I could see round dumping being more of a pain. on a 17-18 round stage if there are more than two shots at the last position (almost always) you'll need to round dump somewhere. 

 

I'm setting up a p365 to run in SSP under the new rules, my first match will be out state champion in May. Assuming I can get classified. Until then I'm just guessing. 

I think that’s exactly what’s going to happen, be a lot more downloaded starts. I don’t see 15 rounds being a benefit, you’ll be forced to reload right in the last array, or like you said round dump even more rounds.

[matteekay]

9 minutes ago, SSGGlock said:

I think that’s exactly what’s going to happen, be a lot more downloaded starts. I don’t see 15 rounds being a benefit, you’ll be forced to reload right in the last array, or like you said round dump even more rounds.

 

My match is on an indoor range with two bays - a wider, tactical bay and a narrow rifle tube. The latter was very limiting for stage designs but I made it work with a lot of 12-round, standards-type stages so everyone had at least one reload. Now I'm either going to have to write a lot more downloaded starts (which I hate) or limit the stage to 6-8 rounds to avoid de-facto SSP victories. Again, I don't mind the rule change, but I wouldn't say it's helpful.

[usmc1974]

On 3/22/2022 at 4:38 AM, RangerTrace said:

I can't understand why they would give SSP the 15 round mag capacity and no ESP etc??  Make no sense unless they are trying to save the division..

So much for the level playing field,

[Johnny_Chimpo]

11 hours ago, matteekay said:

 

Now I'm either going to have to write a lot more downloaded starts (which I hate) or limit the stage to 6-8 rounds to avoid de-facto SSP victories.

 

I thought there was no OA winner in IDPA......

[RangerTrace]

4 hours ago, usmc1974 said:

So much for the level playing field,

So, I shot my first IDPA match since the rule change this weekend.  Funny how many 15 round stages there were.......

[usmc1974]

47 minutes ago, RangerTrace said:

So, I shot my first IDPA match since the rule change this weekend.  Funny how many 15 round stages there were.......

That is what I mean. Back in about  97 it was as different as night and day. In about 2015 it was said to be IPSC with low round count, now it is not even that. First they let in red dots, next they will let in small comps.Then who knows what? It is mostly about the money now.

[Buzzdraw]

14 hours ago, SSGGlock said:

Yeah, they could have done a lot with revolver. Allow 38 short colt with moons. 8-shot optic in CO. Or 8-shot in ESP. Why keep bug revolver at all. And ESR S&W no longer makes a .45 ACP revolver, 625s were stopped. But nope, the least represented division they kept the most restrictive. 

A long-term core concept in IDPA is to encourage use of existing self defense firearms.  Definitely NOT to encourage an equipment race like the one that damaged IPSC shooters in the early to middle 1980's.  Ones newly built then were likely obsolete when delivered from the gunsmith.   To counteract this, Single Stack and L10 came in as well as Limited. 

 

IDPA is stumping its toe with CCP changes disenfranchising those with the single stack 1911 type carry guns. It's been done twice now in recent years.  Looking at revolver, if it is opened up to 8 rounders it will kill the use of millions of 6 shot revolvers out there.  The typical self defense revolver is not one of the scarce 7 or 8 rounders but one of the plentiful less expensive 6 shot ones.  Changing rules to favor the newly manufactured guns of any sort may make industry partners smile but will make those with existing quality self defense guns frown. 

 

CO may be on the ascendancy but let's not grease the skids unnecessarily just to please industry partners.

[RangerTrace]

CO is certainly the largest division at most of our club matches.  I have a great CO gun, but I carry irons at work and prefer to shoot what I carry.  So generally, there are only 3-4 ESP shooters.  Kind of a drag to be honest......

[matteekay]

4 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I thought there was no OA winner in IDPA......

 

 

I also don't hand out plaques at locals. The reality is, for a club match, most shooters look at overall results.

[Buzzdraw]

2 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

 

I also don't hand out plaques at locals. The reality is, for a club match, most shooters look at overall results.

It's been 20 years since we've done plaques for tier 1 IDPA.  The sharp competitor looks first at how they did within their division before looking at overall placement.  They totally ignore PCC unless that's what they shoot.

[Boomstick303]

If the data presents itself it is only human nature to look at overall.  If you are a competitive sort, then you will most likely put more stock in overall.  To each their own.

[RePete]

Has anyone notice the Match Admin Guide rule M5.4.1?

High lady - Gender at birth.

 

I have never seen anything like this before.

[Sorpe]

4 minutes ago, RePete said:

Has anyone notice the Match Admin Guide rule M5.4.1?

High lady - Gender at birth.

 

I have never seen anything like this before.

 

I saw that and got a laugh out of it. It's a modern world!

 

As to fault lines ending, exactly how or where? Is there an imaginary line running parallel to the back berm that intersects with the end of the physical fault line and that defines the end of the line or the limit of the cover area? If so, what a judgment call it will be if someone is shooting from the end of the physical fault line marker. Of course there was already that judgment call when the lines were considered to extend to the stage boundaries so I guess nothing has changed except changing the nature of the judgment of whether someone is inside the appropriate boundary. As the French say, the more things change the more they stay the same. 

[ddc]

3 minutes ago, Sorpe said:

 

I saw that and got a laugh out of it. It's a modern world!

 

As to fault lines ending, exactly how or where? Is there an imaginary line running parallel to the back berm that intersects with the end of the physical fault line and that defines the end of the line or the limit of the cover area? If so, what a judgment call it will be if someone is shooting from the end of the physical fault line marker. Of course there was already that judgment call when the lines were considered to extend to the stage boundaries so I guess nothing has changed except changing the nature of the judgment of whether someone is inside the appropriate boundary. As the French say, the more things change the more they stay the same. 

 

That was my first question that came to mind when I read the fault line rule.

 

I'm also curious what the rationale was in changing the rule.

[RePete]

There is no rationale, just like everything that they do!

[Buzzdraw]

3.6.6 Indicates the fault line end may (not must) be marked with a barrel, cone, etc.  Less of a shooter trap or a SO subjective call thing.

 

[njl]

1 hour ago, Sorpe said:

 

I saw that and got a laugh out of it. It's a modern world!

 

As to fault lines ending, exactly how or where? Is there an imaginary line running parallel to the back berm that intersects with the end of the physical fault line and that defines the end of the line or the limit of the cover area? If so, what a judgment call it will be if someone is shooting from the end of the physical fault line marker. Of course there was already that judgment call when the lines were considered to extend to the stage boundaries so I guess nothing has changed except changing the nature of the judgment of whether someone is inside the appropriate boundary. As the French say, the more things change the more they stay the same. 

 

Some years ago, there was some uproar about a "cross dresser" shooting GSSF as a woman (and winning).  I guess the Wilson's are old fashioned and won't be having anything like that in their game.

[Jim Watson]

3 hours ago, ddc said:

 

That was my first question that came to mind when I read the fault line rule.

 

I'm also curious what the rationale was in changing the rule.

 

3.6.4.2  Fault Lines used to delineate cover must start at the cover object (e.g., wall, barrel, etc.) and extend back away from cover in the up-range direction. The object used to mark the line must extend back away from the cover object at least 3 feet but not more than 8 feet.

 

I figure that they wanted to eliminate stages in which the shooter could hang way out on the prolongation of the fault line to the border and be legit but not actually behind or even near the cover.

[njl]

On 3/30/2022 at 2:50 PM, Jim Watson said:

 

3.6.4.2  Fault Lines used to delineate cover must start at the cover object (e.g., wall, barrel, etc.) and extend back away from cover in the up-range direction. The object used to mark the line must extend back away from the cover object at least 3 feet but not more than 8 feet.

 

I figure that they wanted to eliminate stages in which the shooter could hang way out on the prolongation of the fault line to the border and be legit but not actually behind or even near the cover.

 

The old rule also complicated stage design, because for some stages, it could be argued that you're always behind cover if there's a POC way down-range and you happen to be behind its infinite fault line(s).

[SSGGlock]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:48 AM, Buzzdraw said:

A long-term core concept in IDPA is to encourage use of existing self defense firearms.  Definitely NOT to encourage an equipment race like the one that damaged IPSC shooters in the early to middle 1980's.  Ones newly built then were likely obsolete when delivered from the gunsmith.   To counteract this, Single Stack and L10 came in as well as Limited. 

 

IDPA is stumping its toe with CCP changes disenfranchising those with the single stack 1911 type carry guns. It's been done twice now in recent years.  Looking at revolver, if it is opened up to 8 rounders it will kill the use of millions of 6 shot revolvers out there.  The typical self defense revolver is not one of the scarce 7 or 8 rounders but one of the plentiful less expensive 6 shot ones.  Changing rules to favor the newly manufactured guns of any sort may make industry partners smile but will make those with existing quality self defense guns frown. 

 

CO may be on the ascendancy but let's not grease the skids unnecessarily just to please industry partners.

I disagree, I’ve never seen anyone compete with a J-frame and I’ve never seen anyone EDC a 625. However my edc is a 4” 627 8-shot. And I almost shot revolver exclusively in IDPA and USPSA. So to use the CO/ appendix carry argument “Why can’t I shoot what carry, I thought this was run what you brung.” I jest. Just recently within the last two weeks, I switched to ESP.
 

There maybe millions of k/l frames out there, but IDPA don’t have a million revolver shooters. I bet there is less then 100 active revolver shooters in idpa.

 

Yeap I was one of those guys, that bought a Staccato C for CCP, no longer viable, que sera sera. Going to ten makes perfect sense to me, Glock 19 being the most popular carry gun, why restrict to 8.

 

These are my opinions. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by SSGGlock

[SSGGlock]

On 3/30/2022 at 2:50 PM, Jim Watson said:

 

3.6.4.2  Fault Lines used to delineate cover must start at the cover object (e.g., wall, barrel, etc.) and extend back away from cover in the up-range direction. The object used to mark the line must extend back away from the cover object at least 3 feet but not more than 8 feet.

 

I figure that they wanted to eliminate stages in which the shooter could hang way out on the prolongation of the fault line to the border and be legit but not actually behind or even near the cover.

That and I think they wanted to end the argument of overlapping fault lines. If sticking with fault lines, then 3-8 feet is a good measure and gets rid of the ambiguity.

[BHBret]

Revolver holsters are going to be easier. No more IDPA vs USPSA legal holsters. The USPSA style holsters with the holster cut away at the top of the frame and down the barrel is definitely going to ease the draw. Also like being able to put all the speedloader or moonclip holders in front of the holster. Really wishing Iowa State would use the new new rules next month.