HS-6 extreme spread 9major

[IronicTwitch]

First time using HS-6 for 9major (used SWMP last year).  I got an 8# jug from PV in January.  Given the supply chain, I thought it was a good idea to go with a powder from St Mark's in Florida instead of European Lovex.

 

That said, I'm seeing a large extreme spread in my 9major loads using HS-6. I loaded 100 rounds and ran them all across my chrono and saw readings from 1340fps to 1450fps (166PF to 180PF).  Outside temp was 45 degrees.

 

8.1gr

124gr PD JHP

1.165"

Mixed brass

WIN SPP

 

I took some of my SWMP loads to double check my chrono (SWMP at 10.0gr, 124 PD JHP, 1.165") and all 20 chrono'd right between 170-174PF.

 

Has anyone else had large extreme spread with HS-6, especially the recent batch (8121621-2246)?

[Sarge]

I’ve never heard of that with HS6. I have heard numerous times it’s a better powder for 115’s than 124’s though. Might be why?

[radny97]

Mag primer will tighten that spread right up

[costeel]

How confident are you in the consistency of the powder throw?

I run close to the same load, but seat a bit shorter (1.150) and the velocity is fairly stable.

[IronicTwitch]

If I find some mag primers I'll give that a try!

 

Loading on Dillon 650 standard powder measure. Measured with a RCBS Chargemaster Lite scale (measured only not trickled) and consistently hitting 8.1 except one throw at 8.0 of the ten I tested when I was setting up.  Average of ten throws was 8.09gr.

[ChuckS]

You loaded and tested 100 rounds? What was the standard deviation of the lot? Something goofy could open up the extreme spread but 100 data points should give a pretty solid SD!

[IronicTwitch]

Good point. I stopped writing the numbers after the first 20 rounds. I do recall of the 100 rounds at least 5 or more were 1340-1350fps and the same on the 1440-1450fps.   So that would indicate a pretty wide SD without having the exact data.  I need to get a fancy chrono that keeps the data for me... I'll do a more extensive data collection next time I'm out.

 

None were under 1330fps (165PF) which is my main goal.

 

Hoping someone else that bought this recent batch can chime in with their experience.  

[gng4life]

HS6 has been my 9Major powder for years. I'm using the exact same load almost as you listed except the bullet (MG 124 JHP) and primer (CCI). I always chrono'ed at every Major and my home chrono between 169-173. That's in cold temps, hot temps, sea level, at altitude, East Coast, West Coast, etc. The only other difference that you eluded to was the batch. I purchased eight 8lb jugs years ago at one time and still using them so I am wondering if the newer batch you purchased may have an issue.

 

I'm sure you checked but just to double-check, you don't see any powder spill as the filled cases are rotated in your press, right? I know some people complained about that one time on the 650. 

 

Good luck figuring it out. This is my favorite powder albeit a little dirty, it's still great.  

[zombywoof]

Which Chrono do you have? My Caldwell started recording rounds all over the place. Some as high as 180 like you.

 

I have a CED now.

[IronicTwitch]

I also have a Caldwell, it's probably 4-5 years old so maybe I'll borrow a friend's next time to compare.  I can't *feel* the difference between 1340fps vs 1440fps like I expected.  Only been shooting Open a year though.

 

No powder spillage.  I'm still suspect of the new batch. Holding off on loading much more than test loads until I find the variable.

Edited March 1, 2022 by IronicTwitch

[zzt]

Two things:  Caldwells suck.  If you have any sunlight hitting the ports your readings will be way off.  Even using the IR lighting kit in the shade doesn't improve results that much.  I threw mine away and went back to my Pro Digital Chrono.  Vast improvement.  169PF with ES of 21 across a 15 short string and a 10 shot string.  SDs of 5.9 and 6.9 respectively.

 

Another thing to watch out for is OAL variations.  I get zero differences using HAP bullets.  I get up to .010" differences using PD bullets.  I have no idea why.

[Wvaughn7]

Agree that you should check the Caldwell. I have one and if you know it’s quirks you can get reliable results, but just a little sun in the setup and mine will throw readings all over the place. I’ve even had it give readings when my dad was on the bench next to me shooting rifle and over 5’ from the chrono. Not saying you need a new one, just be careful and double check results if the lighting isn’t perfect. 

[Sinister4]

I use the caldwell infra red, everytime I set it up I will shoot 3-4 rounds of a known velocity ammo to check it   usually inside range , 10 feet ,its right on the money

[IronicTwitch]

Ordered a CED Pro Chrono with Bluetooth.  Should be here Sunday. I'll get another small batch loaded up to test again.  

 

Local guy has an older batch of HS-6 that I'm going to try too.

[PeterParfinik]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:00 PM, IronicTwitch said:

Mixed brass

During a recent PCC load development experiment, a friend and I were surprised to learn how much deviation there can be using mixed brass.  I also was looking at the powder and primer batches for a solution, including trying match primers, primer pocket uniforming and flash hole uniforming.  The solution for me was to use same head stamp brass.  The results went from ES-252 ft/sec with SD-86 to ES-45 ft/sec and SD-14. 

 

Very curious to hear how you make out with the other batch of HS-6.

[Blueknight749]

I’ve been running HS-6 with both Precision delta and RMR 124s for about two years now. Recently, one of the guys on our Shooting Team purchased a D capping and sizing dye kit from Mighty Armory. When he went to go Chrono his ammo before a major match, he said that the new die really kept some consistent numbers on the Chrono. I’ve heard really good things about that company and what they make but I have yet to load some of my own ammo. I would check your powder drop every three or four rounds to make sure that you are getting good numbers. 

[IronicTwitch]

CED Pro Chrono with Bluetooth arrived, after yesterday's snow I made it out to chrono.  I really liked this chrono and app (see screenshots from the app).

 

Results with my HS-6 powder vs older batch show about the same extreme spread.  Both batches are under Major PF, so I'll bump it up to 8.2gr and see if it tightens up.

 

I also chrono'd my SWMP with PD JHP V1 and got very consistent results. 

 

Made me think of the one other variable is I'm using PD JHP V2 with these HS-6 loads. They measure the same diameter but maybe there's some intangible between the projectiles and barrel.  I'll order some V1 to see if there's anything there.

[gng4life]

Nice chrono!

 

So do the SWMP loads use the same mix brass as the HS-6 loads? Same primer? I'm sure your crimp is good, right? Being these are JHP, it's not as big as a deal as it is with plated. Do you have any of the SWMP loads with the V2? I know it was mentioned but an inconsistent powder drop is looking more likely at this point.  

[AHI]

you may wont to weigh those v2 bullets. Just returned  2000.  The weight varied from 84grains to 126grains. Cores were loose from the jackets also.

I am Shure they will fix this. But this should have been caught before they were shipped.. This was all handled by a sponsored shooter by the way.

Edited March 8, 2022 by AHI

[IronicTwitch]

Yeah, the SWMP was using mixed brass, same WSP primers, same crimp (didn't charge that on the tool head).  Only variable is the powder and projectile.  Unfortunately, I'm completely out of SWMP so can't test it with the V2.  

 

I will go through my batch from PD and get more data points. I was one of the first to order the V2 when it came out mid-Oct 2021.

[IronicTwitch]

Just weighed 50 of the V2 projectiles.  All within 124.0 to 124.4 with most at 124.2-3.

[looking4reloadingdeals]

On 3/1/2022 at 8:59 PM, IronicTwitch said:

Ordered a CED Pro Chrono with Bluetooth.  Should be here Sunday. I'll get another small batch loaded up to test again.  

 

Local guy has an older batch of HS-6 that I'm going to try too.

FYI, I have the same one, mine reads 3-5 PF lower (100% of the time) than what I got at every major I shot last year (6?). But the chrono is consistent. There was a clear correlation between what I chronoed before traveling to the match, and what I got at the match every time. Also sat all winter without being used, first time back out i shoot a known load and got consistent results with last year. Blue tooth feature is really helpful. 
 

My hs-6 loads using pd 124jhp and cci primers were pretty consistent. Most of my extreme spreads are 20-40 for 10 shots even with super crappy armscore bullets. There are a hand full of strings that had a 70-80 extreme spread though which I attribute to the armscore bullets variation in bullet length. I bought this powder at the beginning of last year. I can check lot number tomorrow if you want

[Farmer]

13 hours ago, looking4reloadingdeals said:

FYI, I have the same one, mine reads 3-5 PF lower (100% of the time) than what I got at every major I shot last year (6?). But the chrono is consistent. There was a clear correlation between what I chronoed before traveling to the match, and what I got at the match every time. Also sat all winter without being used, first time back out i shoot a known load and got consistent results with last year. Blue tooth feature is really helpful. 
 

My hs-6 loads using pd 124jhp and cci primers were pretty consistent. Most of my extreme spreads are 20-40 for 10 shots even with super crappy armscore bullets. There are a hand full of strings that had a 70-80 extreme spread though which I attribute to the armscore bullets variation in bullet length. I bought this powder at the beginning of last year. I can check lot number tomorrow if you want

I also have one and it reads a bit slower than my previous two but I actually think it’s closer to being right. I had once sent a different brand in for repair and when I got it back all my loads were slower by about 50-80 fps. Years ago we took 3 different models, a Pact, Chrony, and CED, lined them up and got 3 different results. Even with one on top of the other there was a variance. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Farmer

[IronicTwitch]

I think this chrono is very close considering my SWMP load from last year matches up with the Labradar results from Area 3 and Iowa Sectional and whatever chrono was at Illinois Sectional.  All were 172-173PF which matches what I'm seeing with this chrono.

 

I did pull 10 dummy rounds with the V1 profile and loaded those with HS-6.  Weather looks good next week too try some more chrono, so it'll be a few days before results.

[IronicTwitch]

Ok, more chrono results.  8.2gr seems to be the right load. Interesting test of increasing the OAL which actually increased the Avg PF over 23 shots (only one shot went minor).  More interesting was using the V1 projectiles (albeit a sample of only 10 shots), the numbers look even better and not a single shot went minor.

Edited March 16, 2022 by IronicTwitch