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10-22s


Mack19
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How in the world can you make a 10-22 run 99% of the time. I have 3 competition 10-22s for steel challenge and they will run only when they want to I guess. I clean them the same way, same ammo CCI minni mags, tuned mags and clean. But some days runs good next day jams. I get so frustrated with them KIDD, Wildland, very good 10-22s but they are not reliable as my M&P 15-22 by far. So if any competition shooters who has any tips and tricks I would love to know how to make them run top notch so my scores dont suffer its so frustrating.

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You did not specifiy how your gun is set up.  From previous similar posts, there are a wide variety of thought on this subject amoung 10/22 shooters.   So what is listed below is what works for me and others I shoot with each week so take the information as input.

 

1.  Magnum Research Switchbolt Receiver (one GM uses Tactical Innovations receiver with 100% reliabilty).

2.  Briley 16" Raptor Lightweight barrel, Magnum Research 16" .920" Carbon Fiber Barrel, Tactical Solutions 16" .920" Litewieght AL barrel..all sporter chambers.  

3.  Kidd Trigger.

4.  Tandemkross DoubleCross Magazine (with original Ruger 10 rd internals) Note:  A friend of mine who uses a Kidd receiver had reliabilty issues with the Ruger mags.  The DoubleCross mags resolved his issues using Ruger internals.

 

Chassis.............Wiland, Kidd, Crazy Ivan, ModShot, etc., should not be an issue for reliability.

 

Barrels should be sporter chamber.  Our experience....based on getting 100% reliabilty with SV and HV ammo....is the ULW sleeved barrels such as Wiland and Taccom....are a bit more ammo sensitive perhaps due to pressures.  The lightest full length barrel that I have found is the Briley Raptor at around 11.2 oz.  The Tactical Solutions AL barrel is around 15 oz (BTW.....I have a lot of rounds thru my TS and the AL breech face is holding up quite well and is very accurate).  

 

Good luck.

 

 

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Thanks a lot mine is Kidd ULW .720 Barrel, Kidd receivers, Kidd single stage trigger, Kidd bolt,  all Kidd with Wildland chassis. I have tried double Kross green internals with fiberglass lips also singles with red internals and metal lips. So far they have been hit and miss on reliability seems like I might need to sell them and start over with some thing else with better reliability. 

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Assume you want your gun set up for Steel Challenge.  Hopefully others will comment to your post.  I am not a knowledgeable barrel person but I can share what I know from my research when I was searching for barrels.

 

The 15-22 is a sporter chamber.  The sporter chamber is slightly larger (thousanths) than a benz chamber.  The sporter chamber was designed for faster shooting semi-auto's for reliabilty.  If accuracy or tight groupings is the intent, usually the benz or match chamber is used.

 

When a Magnum Research barrel is purchased directly from the factory, the sales rep will ask you if you want the benz or sporter chamber.  For SCSA, I want the sporter so this is how I ordered mine direct from MR.  In fact, I make sure from Briley and Tactical Solutions that their barrels are sporter.  FWIW.......Volquartsen told me their CF barrels are their design............not benz and not sporter but that's all they gave me.

 

There is a YouTube videos by Kidd Innovations about his barrels.  I have attached below.  Tony Kidd is all about precision and makes excellent products.  In this video he says he uses a "kidd design" chamber that is a few hundred thousanth's smaller than benz.  It is a 2008 video so he may have changed.

 

You may give them a call.  I have found them to be very helpful and usually get them on the phone first call.  If you barrel is more of a match grade chamber that may be part of your reliabilty issue.  You can buy a finisher tool from Brownell's and ream the chamber but Kidd may frown on that.  

 

 

 

 

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I have six 10/22's that my wife and I use for Steel Challenge, Rimfire Challenge matches and just general plinking.  They are a mix of receivers, Ruger, Tactical Innovation, and Tactical Solutions X-Ring receivers with Kidd, CST, JWH, and Ruger Tactical Solutions bolts.  3 Volquartsen carbon barrels, 1 Tactical Solutions, 1 Kidd and 1 ???? barrels in various stocks.  The Kidd barrels have a very tight chamber.  Since minute of 10" plate at 25 yards is all the accuracy required, I ran a Bentz chamber ream through all of my barrels.

 

Some 10/22's are very sensitive to under/over lubrication.    I lube all of them with Hornady One Shot Gun Cleaner and Lube.  I spray a good coating on the inside of the receiver, exterior of the bolt, and recoil spring guide rod and let it dry.  I put one very small dab of grease on either the hammer face or the hammer wear contact mark on the back of the bolt.  All six run very reliably, we rarely have any malfunctions.

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/case-care/lubes-and-cleaners/one-shot-cleaners 

1410991766-99901-One-Shot-Gun-Cleaner---

 

Second choice for dry lube is WD40 Specialist with Teflon.  I actually use the WD40 for cleaning them, it has a very strong carrier/solvent, but it evaporates very quickly.  I like the Hornady better as a lube, but the WD40 works almost as well as a lube.

https://www.wd40.com/products/dry-lube/

1594941504-30005-dry-lube-10oz-front.png

 

Nolan

Edited by Nolan
DOH! No Ruger bolts used.
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I did three things to make mine run, and I'd recommend them to people running any variation of 10/22

 

1. Select an ammunition that runs consistently. All reliability stems from the ammo choice, and not all ammos work well in all guns. My go-to is 40gr RN CCI Mini Mag. I cannot run the 36gr at all, but the RN works perfectly. I've tried many brands and this is just what works for me. I buy it in bulk when possible and just don't use anything else for matches. 

2. Use a VQ or Tandemkross extractor. 

3. Use the Kidd upgraded magazine latch plunger and spring to hold the magazine tighter. 

 

If those don't work, then it's probably not a bad idea to use your phone to take some slow-mo video of the gun cycling. This has been a game changer for diagnosing issues, and you might find something unique about your setup that you'll need to account for. 

Edited by Xanatos903
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49 minutes ago, Xanatos903 said:

 

2. Use a VQ or Tandemkross extractor. 

 

100% agree with VQ extractor.  I forgot to add this to my previous comment.  All of my pistols, 10/22's and 15-22 have VQ extractors.   

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I have found no difference between the VQ, TK or Kidd extractors.  I believe there is a TK in there now.  It is probably the last of the three I tried.

 

I use the TK Doublekross mags.  Originally they had Ruger guts.  I now use TK guts in all.  I will note that you have to be careful when tensioning the rotor.  It is easy to make a mistake and turn it one position to little.  You WILL have a feed problem with that mag.  If you are following the old directions, you will be one turn too little.

 

With the Wiland barrel I had feed problems with lots of different ammo.  I switched to the Briley Raptor on @Hoops recommendation.  While not quite as accurate, it feeds all the ammo the Wiland choked on.  I currently use CCI AR Tactical, but 40gr MiniMags work as well.  I have 100% reliability.  I'm shooting up the oddball ammo for practice.

 

Added later:  standard velocity ammo also works fine with a change of springs.  I'm using the AR Tactical because my pistol likes it.  It won't run SV ammo, and I don't want to have to take two types to the match.

Edited by zzt
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On 12/12/2021 at 11:29 AM, Mack19 said:

I clean them the same way, same ammo CCI minni mags, tuned mags and clean. But some days runs good next day jams.

 

What other ammo have you tried? 

 

While Mini Mags are excellent, and run well in most guns, that isn't the same as saying "this is the best ammo to use."

 

Have you tried AR-Tactical?  Or Eley?  Do those do the same thing?

 

The fix might be as simple as trying another ammunition type.

 

(There have already been a lot of good hardware comments, too.)

 

I'll note:  Did you put together your own rifles?  (Or did a professional do it for you?)  How did you set the internals?  (And by that, I mean "how do you know you put it together with the precision needed of finicky .22s?  😕  )  Literally something as little as having the barrel rotated a tiny bit can make a huge difference in reliability.

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Yea... there are so many different things that could be the cause of failures.  I built out my Wiland chassis and barrel but was having a hard time with reliability.  I tried an aftermarket bolt first and it wasn't playing nice.  Tried the stock bolt and it got better, but still issues.  I had the greatest success with the VQ competition bolt.  After that I did find I have having issues with certain ammo.  For me Eley doesn't run that well, but CCI MM and SV's run great.  

 

When you start with custom builds with various parts it ups the chance of issues and diagnosing what might be wrong.

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We have 2 that run as close to 100% as CCI ammo will allow. Here is what we did. Stock barrels, both are Ruger Target lite tension barrels.

 

Kidd guide rod & spring kit matched to your ammo velocity, rod is hardened & spring runs much smoother less chatter.

Change extractor & firing pin, don't remember which brand, but all good. TK, Kidd, or Volq.

Biggest thing I did was take the bolt out & polish the inside of the chamber. I found a lot of overspray/paint and it was a rough surface. Also polished all the surfaces where the bolt rides. 

 

gerritm

 

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On 12/13/2021 at 5:32 AM, Xanatos903 said:

 

3. Use the Kidd upgraded magazine latch plunger and spring to hold the magazine tighter. 

 

Item 3 above made me think about an issue I had with one of my 5 MR guns.  First, it is frustrating (to me) how mag dimensions where they seat into the receiver can vary between the black 10 round,  the clear 10 round and especially the 25 round mags.  Even the 25 round black/clear are different on each side.  Ofter overlooked is the magazine latch plunger and spring.  Kidd sells these separately, but they also have a pull down option for a heavier tension spring...to help push the mag forward into it's proper position.  If the mag is not snug and level,  feeding can be an issue..............and so can ejection as the ejector is in the metal mag feedlips.  

 

So if your mag has too much wobble perhaps this is something inexpensive to look at.....it fixed my one gun.

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On 12/17/2021 at 3:07 PM, Hoops said:

Item 3 above made me think about an issue I had with one of my 5 MR guns.  First, it is frustrating (to me) how mag dimensions where they seat into the receiver can vary between the black 10 round,  the clear 10 round and especially the 25 round mags.  Even the 25 round black/clear are different on each side.  Ofter overlooked is the magazine latch plunger and spring.  Kidd sells these separately, but they also have a pull down option for a heavier tension spring...to help push the mag forward into it's proper position.  If the mag is not snug and level,  feeding can be an issue..............and so can ejection as the ejector is in the metal mag feedlips.  

 

So if your mag has too much wobble perhaps this is something inexpensive to look at.....it fixed my one gun.

 

Glad that it helped you! Someone at the match mentioned it once and I figured I couldn't lose for how cheap they are. It really makes a difference! 

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On 12/13/2021 at 1:24 PM, zzt said:

I use the TK Doublekross mags.  Originally they had Ruger guts.  I now use TK guts in all.  I will note that you have to be careful when tensioning the rotor.  It is easy to make a mistake and turn it one position to little.  You WILL have a feed problem with that mag.  If you are following the old directions, you will be one turn too little.

 

I've been turning the hex bolt eight positions when rebuilding my magazines...  Eight has worked fine until a match yesterday when one magazine failed to push the bullet up so it could be pushed into the chamber...  I attributed the problem as the magazines being too dirty, but now I'm wondering if the bolt needs to be wound a notch tighter.

 

I'm using Ruger clear magazines with all Ruger internals...  Each magazine probably has close to 800 rounds since the last cleaning.

 

What are the new directions for tightening the bolt?

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1 hour ago, apoc4lypse said:

I do 1.5 rotations on the nut when tensioning the mags, so 9 hex flats.

This was posted 2 months ago on TK's youtube instructional video.

 

"NOTE: The shoulder nut can be rotated as few as 8 spaces (1 1/4 turns), but this might not be enough for all 10/22 based firearms. 16 spaces or (2 1/4 turns) is an upper limit, and 2 full turns (12 spaces) is good across the board."

 

I have been using 2 1/2 turns on mine.

Edited by Gregg K
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17 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

What are the new directions for tightening the bolt?

 

You have them.  Ruger's old directions said 7.  I had one mag that did as you describe.  I tightened to 9 notches and all was well again.

 

Since I'm using all TK innards and shells, I think I'm going to 9 across the board the next time I clean the mags.

Edited by zzt
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October 2020, Tandemkross made another video about the rotary 10/22 magazine.  If you have watched previous TK videos, you will see and hear two disctinct changes they have made.

 

1.  When they pull out thier "plunger" you will notice they do not re-insert the bolt until last.

 

2.  Listen closely when they use the assemble the nut turn handle and talk about rotations..........you will hear two rotations for the handle.

 

I put a silver mark on one side of the nut turner handle and make two full rotations press inward until it locks in.  Works for me.  Having said that, sometimes a spring may need to be replacedl just from repeated use.

 

 

 

https://www.tandemkross.com/rotor-for-1022-magazine.html

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@Gregg K@zzt@Hoops

 

Thanks for the updates/explanations...  Very helpful...  I've been running these magazines for almost a year...  Not sure if the springs could be starting to lose their tension already...  I'll bump them up to at least nine notches when I clean them this week...  I bumped one magazine up to nine notches and could feel the difference between it and one set to eight notches...  Makes more of a difference than I expected.

 

How long does a set of springs usually last?  Assume you replace worn out springs with the Tandemkross green springs as Ruger doesn't seem to sell any separate parts?

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2 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

@Gregg K@zzt@Hoops

 

Thanks for the updates/explanations...  Very helpful...  I've been running these magazines for almost a year...  Not sure if the springs could be starting to lose their tension already...  I'll bump them up to at least nine notches when I clean them this week...  I bumped one magazine up to nine notches and could feel the difference between it and one set to eight notches...  Makes more of a difference than I expected.

 

How long does a set of springs usually last?  Assume you replace worn out springs with the Tandemkross green springs as Ruger doesn't seem to sell any separate parts?

All my competition mags are 100% Tandemkross.  I'm using the DoubleKross with green rotors, green springs and the polymer feed lips.

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2 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

How long does a set of springs usually last?  Assume you replace worn out springs with the Tandemkross green springs as Ruger doesn't seem to sell any separate parts?

 

Like @bigdawgbeav, I run Doublekross bodies with all TK green insides and poly feed lips.  I used them for 14 6 stage matches and the springs show no signs of slowing down.  When I initially ordered the parts I ordered a bunch of spares.  I'm probably not going to need them all.  I shot two full seasons with the TK Doublekross with Ruger guts with no issues.  That was 12 8 stage matches and a bunch of 5 and six.

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