New Popper Calibration Procedure

[motosapiens]

11 hours ago, llamasabound said:

I shot a level 3, that I was working, on staff day(snip)

 

It happens. I would have been very sad to start a match I was losing money to volunteer at with 5 mikes because the steel had been profoundly improperly set.

 

my recommendation is for the staff that are shooting the staff match to actually check the steel themselves, on every stage. If you're going to have a problem, that's the most likely time for it, for exactly the reasons you mention. I typically shoot several majors each year as staff, and I ALWAYS check the stage carefully first.

 

Honestly, if I were on the staff squad with you in that situation, I would probably have stopped you partway through for an obvious REF and then set about checking the stage properly. It's a pet peeve of mine that staff sometimes get screwed and have their match scores suffer because they have to rush and have less time to prepare, often because other people were unprepared. I try to make sure the whole squad knows they can take as long as they need. I shot a staff match with only 6 shooters on the squad earlier this year. We still tried to make sure no one felt like they had to rush or not get enough time to look at the stage and plan.

Edited November 16, 2021 by motosapiens

[motosapiens]

12 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

From my limited experience with the exception of once where the wind for certain held up a large popper everyone of the poppers was set improperly in regards to forward falling poppers. Someone set the rod too high on the bolt. The first shot pushed the popper back which dropped the rod slightly on the bolt (which sets the popper properly) then the calibration shot was able to knock the popper down. 

 

I can see what the board is trying to do, but I am not certain it will fix everything. The other issue you have with the new rule is currently constructed, the person who set the popper originally sets it exactly the way they set it the first time. You cannot guarantee they will do that. 

 

 

mis-set forward fallers can typically be adjusted so they can't be mis-set. I have seen this be an issue a couple times. IMHO it is an egregious failure on the part of the stage RO's. The good news is that the new calibration procedure *should* catch such issues.

[Thomas H]

13 hours ago, llamasabound said:

Arriving at our first stage that had been set by the crew responsible for it and cleared by the RM, we were hurried to get started because they had added four paying shooters to our RO squad.

 

Did the RM not check the calibration on the steel prior to staff starting to shoot the stage?  How in the world could the RM have missed all of that?!
 

 

[llamasabound]

36 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

 

Did the RM not check the calibration on the steel prior to staff starting to shoot the stage?  How in the world could the RM have missed all of that?!
 

 

I can’t speak for all RMs, but at multiple majors I’ve worked RMs haven’t checked all steel, and have instead instructed the staff for that stage to during the staff walk through. In this instance I should have checked it myself.

[echotango]

On 11/15/2021 at 1:02 PM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Wind. That which gusts and knocks them down also gusts and holds them up. 

 

Happened to me at a L2 match.  It was windy and had a big gust of wind right as I shot it.  Shooting major and hit it in the middle.  And it could not be seen again once you left the position.  I called my shot and left.  And of course it was up. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by echotango

[Racinready300ex]

My vary first USPSA match I center punched a big popper and it just laughed at me. It was a 6 round stage and I was shooting a revolver so I didn't reload and shoot it again. I also didn't know you could ask for calibration, so the RO just called it a Mike. 

 

Since then I've left others up some with good hits mostly hit low or edged. I've won calibration once ever, and it was at a Area match. That was another dead center hit that stayed up. Also a big popper. 

[Thomas H]

22 hours ago, llamasabound said:

I can’t speak for all RMs, but at multiple majors I’ve worked RMs haven’t checked all steel, and have instead instructed the staff for that stage to during the staff walk through. In this instance I should have checked it myself.

 

Yikes.

 

I can't think of a major I've ever worked where the RM _didn't_ check all the steel every day before anyone shot it for score.  I'm sorry to hear that you've had that happen to you.

[Schutzenmeister]

I'm posting the following from Appendix C1, for those who haven't read it ... Note the highlighted and emphasized portion.

__________

 

APPENDIX C1 –Calibration of Poppers

 

Initial Calibration

 

1. The Range Master must designate a specific supply of ammunition and one or more firearms to be used as official calibration tools by officials authorized by him to serve as calibration officers.

 

2. Prior to commencement of a match, the calibration ammunition must be chronographed using the procedure specified in Appendix C2. The calibration ammunition, when tested through each designated firearm,should achieve a power factor between 115.0 and 125.0 to qualify. 9x19mm is the recommended caliber.

 

3. Once the supply of ammunition and the designated firearms have been tested and approved by the Range Master, they are not subject to challenge by competitors.

 

4. The Range Master must arrange for each popper to be calibrated prior to commencement of a match, and whenever required during a match.

 

5. For initial calibration, each popper must be set to fall when hit within the calibration zone with a single shot fired from a designated firearm using the calibration ammunition. The shot must be fired from the shooting location in the course of fire furthest from the popper being calibrated. Calibration zones are indicated in the diagrams in Appendix B2.

__________

 

If your RM, at ANY level match is not doing this he/she is in violation of the rules and you should do something about it.  There is no excuse for failing to calibrate the poppers before the first official round goes downrange.  The proper procedures are quite well stated in the above 5 paragraphs.

 

[varminter22]

1 hour ago, Schutzenmeister said:

I'm posting the following from Appendix C1, for those who haven't read it ... Note the highlighted and emphasized portion.

__________

.....

__________

 

If your RM, at ANY level match is not doing this he/she is in violation of the rules and you should do something about it.  There is no excuse for failing to calibrate the poppers before the first official round goes downrange.  The proper procedures are quite well stated in the above 5 paragraphs.

 

Obviously, you are 100% correct.  

 

However, I'll venture to say proper calibration (IAW App C1) is not being done at the vast majority of Level 1 matches.  

[Thomas H]

43 minutes ago, varminter22 said:

Obviously, you are 100% correct.  

 

However, I'll venture to say proper calibration (IAW App C1) is not being done at the vast majority of Level 1 matches.  

 

I agree--it probably isn't being done.

 

I'll note that when I was on our match committee, calibration (including initial calibration prior to competitors shooting a stage) using a gun/ammo combination that consistently chronoed 118-119 PF was done.   

 

Now....hm.  Well.  Things change. 

 

I am astonished that an RM for a major didn't do initial calibration.  I'd be.....UNHAPPY....llama's situation had happened to me.  Probably in a vocal fashion.

[RJH]

At level one matches I think the knuckle calibration is completely acceptable. You might have to dig around in a rule book for a while to find it though

[Schutzenmeister]

34 minutes ago, RJH said:

At level one matches I think the knuckle calibration is completely acceptable. You might have to dig around in a rule book for a while to find it though

 

Dig all you want ... You won't find it.

 

Why?

 

What you alude to isn't there!

[ChuckS]

14 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Dig all you want ... You won't find it.

 

Why?

 

What you alude to isn't there!

I thought I saw in in the index  between "break the perf" and "shooter ready"

[ima45dv8]

1 hour ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

Dig all you want ... You won't find it.

 

Why?

 

What you alude to isn't there!

It's right after that wise rule, "Don't scare the RO".

[Bagellord]

47 minutes ago, ima45dv8 said:

It's right after that wise rule, "Don't scare the RO".

 

Right before "don't tap the glass, it annoys them"

[llamasabound]

5 hours ago, Thomas H said:

 

I agree--it probably isn't being done.

 

I'll note that when I was on our match committee, calibration (including initial calibration prior to competitors shooting a stage) using a gun/ammo combination that consistently chronoed 118-119 PF was done.   

 

Now....hm.  Well.  Things change. 

 

I am astonished that an RM for a major didn't do initial calibration.  I'd be.....UNHAPPY....llama's situation had happened to me.  Probably in a vocal fashion.

I was very vocal in that moment, but I did not direct it at the RM (or anyone else, not my style). As a level 3 run under “covid rules,” perhaps it was a more exceptional event than I understood. I can say categorically that steel calibration was delegated to CROs at that match, since I was a CRO on another stage.

[mchapman]

27 minutes ago, llamasabound said:

I was very vocal in that moment, but I did not direct it at the RM (or anyone else, not my style). As a level 3 run under “covid rules,” perhaps it was a more exceptional event than I understood. I can say categorically that steel calibration was delegated to CROs at that match, since I was a CRO on another stage.

It does not say  that he or her has to do it them self, it says arrange, and that arrangement could or would be the CRO/ROs at the stage in most cases.  4. The Range Master must arrange for each popper to be calibrated prior to commencement of a match, and whenever required during a match.

[varminter22]

6 hours ago, RJH said:

At level one matches I think the knuckle calibration is completely acceptable. ...

I cannot disagree.  Many (if not most) Level 1 matches are, by necessity, more "low key" and more hastily put together.  But then it also follows that challenges should be more "benefit of doubt goes to the shooter"; especially if the MD hasn't assembled 115 to 125 PF calibration ammo.  

[motosapiens]

9 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said:

I'm posting the following from Appendix C1, for those who haven't read it ... Note the highlighted and emphasized portion.

<snip>

 

4. The Range Master must arrange for each popper to be calibrated prior to commencement of a match, and whenever required during a match.

 

<snip>

 

 

trust, but verify. I check every popper on every stage when I shoot as staff.

[Thomas H]

15 hours ago, mchapman said:

It does not say  that he or her has to do it them self, it says arrange, and that arrangement could or would be the CRO/ROs at the stage in most cases.  4. The Range Master must arrange for each popper to be calibrated prior to commencement of a match, and whenever required during a match.

 

"...to be calibrated" means something specific.  If the RM doesn't make available a gun/ammo combination that has been shown to make the appropriate power factor for calibration check purposes, this just doesn't work out.

 

The RM can't just say "hey, make sure those fall."  If the RM arranges this, the arrangement still needs to follow all the rules.

[motosapiens]

by the rules, It seems super duper important that the RM actually shoot every popper in the match.... but personally I'd be happy if the RM saved some primers and the poppers were just knuckle-tested  for initial setup and light enough to go down reliably.

 

primers don't grow on trees ya know.