Bagellord Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 https://nroi.org/news-announcements/new-popper-calibration-procedure/ It's obviously imperfect, but seems to be a step in the right direction. So basically, it will be shot a second time if it falls with the first calibration hit (and was not hit in the wrong spot). And it reiterates that RO's should check for REF before calling for calibration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 All these years with many hundreds of shooters getting popper screwed and a big name has it happen and tahdah a rule change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 When I've seen the problem at well run stages (care for calibration) it has usually been edge hits in the calibration zone - calibration shots more toward the center drop the popper but that hit you heard that the paint mark shows landed on the edge would not. Hard for me to understand why visual evidence of a hit is not considered at matches where painting between shooters is required. The last two times it happened to me it was clear to everyone watching that the popper had been hit in the calibration zone but the popper didn't fall and the calibration shot was more toward the center so the popper did not fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamasabound Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Bagellord said: https://nroi.org/news-announcements/new-popper-calibration-procedure/ It's obviously imperfect, but seems to be a step in the right direction. So basically, it will be shot a second time if it falls with the first calibration hit (and was not hit in the wrong spot). And it reiterates that RO's should check for REF before calling for calibration. also, an RM can just hit above the calibration zone on a USPSA style popper and get the shooter a reshoot. This has always been my preferred solution, glad it survived. Edited September 30, 2021 by llamasabound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Sarge said: All these years with many hundreds of shooters getting popper screwed and a big name has it happen and tahdah a rule change! many hundreds? I've literally never seen it. Everyone shooting sub-minor *claims* they got popper-screwed tho, just like every guy that crashes drunk at night claims a deer jumped out in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said: Hard for me to understand why visual evidence of a hit is not considered at matches where painting between shooters is required. The last two times it happened to me it was clear to everyone watching that the popper had been hit in the calibration zone but the popper didn't fall and the calibration shot was more toward the center so the popper did not fail. visual evidence of a hit *is* considered. it's evidence that the popper was hit. if there is no visual evidence, then calibration request is denied. Unfortunately, it's not considered evidence that the shooter was shooting above 125pf ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 fwiw, I would have skipped shooting it the first time. my rule would be to examine it, reset it the way it was set (or in the way least likely to fall), and then shoot it. I have found faulty latch mechanisms more than once on forward falling poppers, but if it's not discovered until after the popper falls for the rm, the shooter has no recourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 (edited) oops. double-tap. fwiw, the main thing I like about this procedure is the extra examination of the mechanism in between shooting it twice. in my experience, just adding that step would solve 99% of the *real* popper problems, like defective or maladjusted latches, or poppers that can rest in more than one position due to a crappy worn-out hinge. It still wouldn't solve the sub-minor whiners, but mocking those people helps alot. Edited September 30, 2021 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 4 minutes ago, motosapiens said: visual evidence of a hit *is* considered. it's evidence that the popper was hit. In the scoring zone, considered the way all other hits are considered except for with poppers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, motosapiens said: visual evidence of a hit *is* considered. it's evidence that the popper was hit. if there is no visual evidence, then calibration request is denied. Unfortunately, it's not considered evidence that the shooter was shooting above 125pf ammo. not to mention the "certified ammo" that fell below the PF in the past... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 40 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: In the scoring zone, considered the way all other hits are considered except for with poppers. you mean the 'calibration zone' ? there is no scoring zone on poppers. You can still score way outside the calibration zone, as long as you knock it over. If you're worried about knocking over poppers, don't show up to nationals with almost half of your ammo sub-minor, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 9 minutes ago, motosapiens said: you mean the 'calibration zone' ? Yes, the calibration zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaterHead Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Yet another needless rule change. It has become a sport of whiners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 2 hours ago, motosapiens said: many hundreds? I've literally never seen it. Everyone shooting sub-minor *claims* they got popper-screwed tho, just like every guy that crashes drunk at night claims a deer jumped out in front of him. I’ve probably seen half the calibration shots knock down steel that didn’t fall for a shooter. Depending on ones definition of being screwed all of those could qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 4 hours ago, TaterHead said: Yet another needless rule change. It has become a sport of whiners. And lawless in terms of rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 I'm somewhat concerned what this could potentially do to match flow. Granted, if the poppers are set correctly and fall when they should, there should be few calls for calibration. But I've seen too many "competitors" with very low and/or barely edge hits request a calibration simply in the hopes of "getting lucky." The new procedure may prove to slow the match down unnecessarily. Just my $0.02 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 …or just abolish all poppers and replace with plates. If they fail to fall then it’s usually a REF, they are easier to haul around from equipment shack to the berms, and they are cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 13 hours ago, TaterHead said: Yet another needless rule change. Only an idiot doesn't realize that shooting a popper that has already been hit in the calibration zone (but still standing) is an inherently flawed way to determine if it's in calibration. This was a huge step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Schutzenmeister said: I'm somewhat concerned what this could potentially do to match flow. I bet the the people who've been popper f*#ked by the inherently flawed prior process don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) @twodownzero would you like to educate us about which USPSA rule or bylaw was ignored to make this rule change? Edited October 1, 2021 by SGT_Schultz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 15 hours ago, motosapiens said: many hundreds? I've literally never seen it Well then, debate over. Newsflash: nobody cares if you've never seen it. Lots of us have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superkaratemonkeyfighter Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Idk but this procedure would seem to eliminate the whining. seems like a more logical way to check for a malfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superkaratemonkeyfighter Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Do they have front falling plates ? the combination of front and back falling poppers changes how stages are shot and allows stage designers to subtly change the stage flow. I’ve been bitten a couple times by not walking the stage thoroughly and notice the front fallers. I think it’s great. My dumba#^ should have noticed it before hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, BritinUSA said: …or just abolish all poppers and replace with plates. If they fail to fall then it’s usually a REF, they are easier to haul around from equipment shack to the berms, and they are cheaper. I am a big fan of the smaller poppers, or the big poppers with the non calibration area skeletonized, for some of the practicality reasons you noted above and because fewer people get screwed when the wind holds them up and because there are fewer reshoots when the wind blows them down and because they do not require recalibration as often due to shifting on muddy or otherwise loose soil. Surprised that gusty windy days are not a more prevalent part of this discussion, wind gusts strong enough to blow them down (which I assume everyone has seen - usually happens to you on the last target of your best stage of the day) are likely more than strong enough to hold them up when hit with minor power factor bullets. Edited October 1, 2021 by IHAVEGAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 15 hours ago, Sarge said: I’ve probably seen half the calibration shots knock down steel that didn’t fall for a shooter. Depending on ones definition of being screwed all of those could qualify. that's almost never being screwed. .that's hitting a popper low, or on the edge, or with sub-minor ammo. Now I admit that it's possible that the clubs where I shoot are just more diligent about keeping their equipment adjusted properly than the clubs where you shoot. I personally try to check the poppers every stage at local matches, and when I work majors, I check and adjust between every squad, because that's what competent RO's do. Edited October 1, 2021 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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