What if?

[Carmoney]

My 627-4 in .38 Super never really shot all that great.  Tried all sorts of stuff in it, never really got any better.  

 

If I were starting completely fresh, I suppose I would get a 929.  But in reality, I will never switch from my 627s and 27-7s because of the ungodly quantity of short colt brass and high-end .38 8-shot moonclips I have accumulated over the years.  My guns have always worked just fine--no problems ever.  

[PatJones]

If I was starting out, I'd get a 929 due to the low cost of brass. But I guess I'll stick with my 627 and 38 special brass, I shoot pretty good with it.

[ysrracer]

10 minutes ago, PatJones said:

If I was starting out, I'd get a 929 due to the low cost of brass. But I guess I'll stick with my 627 and 38 special brass, I shoot pretty good with it.

 

When I go to my local range here in So Cal, I usually come home with more brass, than I went with.

 

I was paying a nickel a case before.

[revoman]

I would still stay with the 627 as less problems to make it work. The brass cost issue is mute as I am still shooting the original 1000 short colt I purchased years ago and had loaded over 20 times maybe more. I do like the 27-7 and I wish I had never sold my 6 1/2” 27 but I still have the 5”. 

[IHAVEGAS]

627 , unless I can get the SuperGP 100 lined out with federal primers and less trigger weight. I hate the fragile crane retention method on the Smiths and their tendency to break the extended firing pins - broke my first "unbreakable" pin from TK Custom, they replaced it free and said they had fortified the design so time will tell. 

 

My 929 works now after a pain finding what it would shoot without leading, personal opinion is that tapered brass is not a great choice for keeping bullets from walking in an 8 shot revolver. 

 

[PatJones]

40 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 929 works now after a pain finding what it would shoot without leading, personal opinion is that tapered brass is not a great choice for keeping bullets from walking in an 8 shot revolver.

It's not really tapered any more after you resize the case. Carbide dies make the front of the case parallel sided.

[pskys2]

One other plus for the 627 over the 929, you don't "have to" use moon clips.  Only when I practice my reloads do I use moon clips for practice with my 627's.

 

But then I'm just an old lazy guy!

[Distant Thunder]

40 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

One other plus for the 627 over the 929, you don't "have to" use moon clips.  Only when I practice my reloads do I use moon clips for practice with my 627's.

 

But then I'm just an old lazy guy!

 

 

Not old, just older. We're not officially old until people say nice things about us ... right before they throw a handful of dirt in our face.

[Fishbreath]

I come at it from the other direction—I keep most of my ammo on moon clips because I don't have a ton of time to spend at the range, and it saves me some time over loading singles and dumping in my brass bag. (Range time, anyway—I can load moon clips late at night when everyone else has gone to bed.)

[Mcfoto]

1 minute ago, Fishbreath said:

I come at it from the other direction—I keep most of my ammo on moon clips because I don't have a ton of time to spend at the range, and it saves me some time over loading singles and dumping in my brass bag. (Range time, anyway—I can load moon clips late at night when everyone else has gone to bed.)

same. The “can load without moons” was one of my justifications for getting a 627 but since I have it all sorted, I haven’t not loaded with a moon in a long time. During live fire practice, I figure it’s valuable muscle memory even if it isn’t under a timer.

 

An argument in the other direction is that I hope the OP doesn’t get a 929 thinking they can use any factory 9 they find...

[Underwood]

currently using a 625.. but wanting a 929 ...  I would prefer the 929 cause my 1050 is already setup to load 9mm 

 

[pskys2]

1 hour ago, Underwood said:

currently using a 625.. but wanting a 929 ...  I would prefer the 929 cause my 1050 is already setup to load 9mm 

 

I have a Super 1050 set up for 9mm and 38 short colt.  Uses the same tool head with usually no or very little adjustments of anything.  Have to change the Sizing Die only, I use the 9mm seating, crimping, Mr. Bullet Feeder die and the powder drop for the 38 short colt.  The change over for the shell plate gives me a chance to keep things clean.

 

For best performance you will probably use a different bullet and a particular, specific case and of course Federal Primers, though I have been using and had excellent results with Fiocchi SPP's, any way.  

 

But if keeping the same cartridge is a particular detail you won't go wrong with the 929.

[ysrracer]

Agreed, I load .38 Short Colt and 9mm on my 750 with a case feeder and bullet feeder.

 

The only thing I change between calibers is the shell plate and the sizing die. Sometimes I even use the same bullets and powder in both.

[IHAVEGAS]

22 hours ago, PatJones said:

It's not really tapered any more after you resize the case. Carbide dies make the front of the case parallel sided.

I wonder if all 9mm carbide dies are the same in this regard regardless of brand or age? Digging into it I find stuff like the note below. 

 

I just checked a RCBS .38/.357 carbide die dated 1976 and it has a short carbide ring. And I checked a newer Lee and RCBS carbide 9mm carbide die and they have a carbide ring three times as deep as the old .357 die. So I'm guessing the new carbide dies are tapered and will size the entire case.

I remember having wasp waisted .357 cases with old carbide dies but with the newer 9mm dies I did not have that problem. I looked at my loaded 9mm cases and they are slightly smaller below the bullet but they are not sized excessively near the base.

As a side note I also checked a newer carbide .40 S&W die and its carbide ring is shorter than the 9mm. I think this is because the .40 S&W has less taper.

Bottom line none of the 9mm cases look like the .357 cases sized in my much older carbide die. Meaning the newer carbide dies do not over resize the cases like the older dies did.

NOTE, the Lee deluxe 4 die set has carbide sizing die, a bullet seating die and a carbide factory crimp die. Meaning you will seat and crimp in two different operations and the carbide factory crimp die will size any bulges caused by crimping. The bad news is you do not want to use this crimp die with over sized cast bullets because the bullet will be sized smaller. I prefer using this Lee carbide die set with jacketed and plated bullets over any other die set. "BUT" if you plan to shoot over sized cast bullets you will want another die set.

I also have the Lee bulge buster kit for the 9mm which is a push through die that sizes the base of the case to SAAMI minimum diameter.

 

 

[Thomas H]

20 hours ago, Mcfoto said:

 

An argument in the other direction is that I hope the OP doesn’t get a 929 thinking they can use any factory 9 they find...

 

Why not? 

[IHAVEGAS]

10 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

 

Why not? 

115 grain federal factory ammo walks out of the brass bad, don't know about accuracy issues with 355-356 factory bullets on the 929's that slug at .357 but it seems like that might also be a thing. Other thing, my 929 is very accurate but point of aim is more dependent on ammo than any other gun I have owned.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by IHAVEGAS

[ysrracer]

9 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

 

Why not? 

 

Mine wouldn't fire factory ammo reliably. I had bullet creep, and poor accuracy. Not too mention HARD primers.

[pskys2]

56 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

 

Mine wouldn't fire factory ammo reliably. I had bullet creep, and poor accuracy. Not too mention HARD primers.

FWIW in 38 SC I've been using Fiocchi SPP's (lead/zinc free no less) and they are lighting off the same as my Fed's.  Velocity is less, up to 30 f/s, but the accuracy is better.

Right now I'm looking at loading USPSA (830 f/s 132+pf) ammo with Fed's and ICORE (790 f/s 125pf) with Fiocchi's, using the same bullet & powder.  Primers are easy to distinguish Fed's are silver & Fiocchi's are dark grey.

Now if I could just find a consistent supply of either!!!

Edited May 20, 2021 by pskys2

[MikeyScuba]

Really?  I found the Fiocchi non-tox to not reliably go off in our 929's.  Oddly the only 2 primers ever to bang in the 650 were the Fiocchi's.  Damm things burn super clean.  Bought a few crates a few years back but then went to revo exclusively so I was using Fed's.  Now I'm going to ipsc open the Fiocchi's are coming in useful as they should help keep the comp clean.  Just have not been able to shoot as we are still lockdowned.

[pskys2]

4 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

Really?  I found the Fiocchi non-tox to not reliably go off in our 929's.  Oddly the only 2 primers ever to bang in the 650 were the Fiocchi's.  Damm things burn super clean.  Bought a few crates a few years back but then went to revo exclusively so I was using Fed's.  Now I'm going to ipsc open the Fiocchi's are coming in useful as they should help keep the comp clean.  Just have not been able to shoot as we are still lockdowned.

I'm using in a 627 loaded with a Super 1050 and a .009 to .010 primer seating depth and very consistent.  In a rimless case, even with moon clips, there might be a difference?

I'm running at just under 5 lbs with a 36 ounce hammer fall.

[PatJones]

On 5/20/2021 at 5:54 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

I wonder if all 9mm carbide dies are the same in this regard regardless of brand or age? Digging into it I find stuff like the note below. 

 

I just checked a RCBS .38/.357 carbide die dated 1976 and it has a short carbide ring. And I checked a newer Lee and RCBS carbide 9mm carbide die and they have a carbide ring three times as deep as the old .357 die. So I'm guessing the new carbide dies are tapered and will size the entire case.

I remember having wasp waisted .357 cases with old carbide dies but with the newer 9mm dies I did not have that problem. I looked at my loaded 9mm cases and they are slightly smaller below the bullet but they are not sized excessively near the base.

As a side note I also checked a newer carbide .40 S&W die and its carbide ring is shorter than the 9mm. I think this is because the .40 S&W has less taper.

Bottom line none of the 9mm cases look like the .357 cases sized in my much older carbide die. Meaning the newer carbide dies do not over resize the cases like the older dies did.

NOTE, the Lee deluxe 4 die set has carbide sizing die, a bullet seating die and a carbide factory crimp die. Meaning you will seat and crimp in two different operations and the carbide factory crimp die will size any bulges caused by crimping. The bad news is you do not want to use this crimp die with over sized cast bullets because the bullet will be sized smaller. I prefer using this Lee carbide die set with jacketed and plated bullets over any other die set. "BUT" if you plan to shoot over sized cast bullets you will want another die set.

I also have the Lee bulge buster kit for the 9mm which is a push through die that sizes the base of the case to SAAMI minimum diameter.

 

 

The newer dies leave a short taper by the casehead, but I believe they are still parallel sided at the top of the case. Measure a resized case from your dies.

[MWP]

On 5/19/2021 at 5:11 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

627 , unless I can get the SuperGP 100 lined out with federal primers and less trigger weight. I hate the fragile crane retention method on the Smiths and their tendency to break the extended firing pins - broke my first "unbreakable" pin from TK Custom, they replaced it free and said they had fortified the design so time will tell. 

 

My 929 works now after a pain finding what it would shoot without leading, personal opinion is that tapered brass is not a great choice for keeping bullets from walking in an 8 shot revolver. 

 

I’ll trade you one for a 929...

[IHAVEGAS]

12 hours ago, MWP said:

I’ll trade you one for a 929...

 

929 is working now, too much time and money invested to get it that way to be able to justify (or want to) start over. 

[S&W627shooter]

627 because I tried the 929, and it was too much trouble to work up a load, and for some reason, I just didn't like the way it felt in my hand compared to my 627.  Maybe it's just what I'm used to.  I like having the option of .38 short colt, long colt, special, and .357.

[pskys2]

9 hours ago, S&W627shooter said:

627 because I tried the 929, and it was too much trouble to work up a load, and for some reason, I just didn't like the way it felt in my hand compared to my 627.  Maybe it's just what I'm used to.  I like having the option of .38 short colt, long colt, special, and .357.

I felt the same way, without trying the 929 actually before the 929 was even available.  Then played with a buddies 929 and really liked it.  He seems to have all the bugs worked out and haven't seen him have any issues.  I haven't actually delved into how much work he's put into getting it set up though.  Since we have a decent drive to the MW ICORE Regional, with me riding shotgun, will be a good time to pick his brain.

But I'm like you I like the flexibility of the 627.  Now that I have 2, a PC & a Pro, at some point I might try a 929 for Open ICORE with a better comp?  Or not, maybe spend the money on a barrel/comp for the Pro?  I like having a back up, which I have with the 627's, but then I fret over having too many options!  Can't decide which I like shooting better at any given time!  Oh the frustrations!!!  I'm so blessed.

Edited June 20, 2021 by pskys2