Frame mount or milled slide mount for optics

[DIYguy]

I've been shooting a custom Shadow2 with the CO milled package from CZ Custom in CO for the last couple seasons and LOVE that gun. Because of aging eyes several of my other guns are running red dots. Been looking for a new .40  gun to play with as don't like my S&W 40 Pro much, to light for 40. Love CZ's and found a CZ 75 Tactical Sport Orange in 40 at CZ Custom that has my interest. If I pick it up I would want to run a dot on that gun also.

My question is regarding the optic mount. My other red dots are milled slides so the optic sets low to the slide, some co witness. Don't remember seeing any open guns that run the optics slide mount they are always frame mount. Frame mount is easier on the optic, less movement of the optic, quicker follow up but what I'm concerned with is the height. I'm interested in the TSO because it is very similar to my Shadow2 so don't want to change guns too much, retain muscle memory and such.

Do people run slide mounted optics in major power as the recoil is significantly higher and not sure if a slide mount would beat the hell out of the optic? Currently running an SRO, had a C-More before but had some issues so it's in it's box. Not planing on moving up to Open at this time but never say never.

I like the cleaner, lower profile of the slide mount but wondering if there are established reasons not to with major power factor.

Thoughts?

[George16]

I will not have a slide mounted mount on my major gun personally. I recommend frame mount using a CZ Custom Multioptic mount and install your SRO or any other optic. 
 

Here’s my TSO and Czechmate with the CZ Custom Multioptic mount:

 

[zzt]

I have a dovetail mounted optic on my CZ TS 40 and it works fine.  Major, minor, no problem.  Sprung properly, the recoil of a 40sw slide is not violent.  Even if you have your slide milled for an optic.  The dot will still be higher than the iron sights.

[DIYguy]

Hey George16, question. I like the specs for the TSO, love my CZs but bit confused. The specs on the website for the TSO say width 1.77". The widest point on the grips for my Shadow2 are 1.142", grips on my M&P 40 are 1.20". I haven't found a TSO in stock to wrap my hand around so wondering, is the 1.77 the width at the grips or including max width with safety, etc. From images the TSO grip doesn't look like it would be 5/8" fatter than my Shadow. I have medium to medium small hands and that much larger of a grip could be an issue. Still on the hunt to find a gun in stock to wrap the hand around, so far available by order only. Any help?

[George16]

35 minutes ago, DIYguy said:

Hey George16, question. I like the specs for the TSO, love my CZs but bit confused. The specs on the website for the TSO say width 1.77". The widest point on the grips for my Shadow2 are 1.142", grips on my M&P 40 are 1.20". I haven't found a TSO in stock to wrap my hand around so wondering, is the 1.77 the width at the grips or including max width with safety, etc. From images the TSO grip doesn't look like it would be 5/8" fatter than my Shadow. I have medium to medium small hands and that much larger of a grip could be an issue. Still on the hunt to find a gun in stock to wrap the hand around, so far available by order only. Any help?

My TSO measures 1.220” with the stock orange grips. I wish I still have the stock grips on my shadow 2 so I can compare measurement. 

[DIYguy]

Thanks George, I think your TSO is a 9 correct? Measured one of my .40 mags and it measured .06 thicker than a 9 so I expect the the TSO .40 grip should be under 1.3 so should be good. Still want to wrap my hands around the real thing before investing about $3k

[Steve RA]

[George16]

3 hours ago, DIYguy said:

Thanks George, I think your TSO is a 9 correct? Measured one of my .40 mags and it measured .06 thicker than a 9 so I expect the the TSO .40 grip should be under 1.3 so should be good. Still want to wrap my hands around the real thing before investing about $3k

Oh yeah. Forgot to say that it’s 9mm.

[Posvar]

Surely run a frame mounted optic on a major power factor gun.

[N7VY]

I’ve been using an EGW dovetail mount for my Tanfoglio Stock2. After about 5 months I sheared a screw and a boss off a RMR mount. EGW replaced it right away and I got about 4months out of the second one. It sheared one boss. EGW replaced the second one and they told me that they haven’t had a problem like mine so this was the last replacement. I’m running 137 PF and the optic was a SRO. Maybe it’s the size causing the issue. Don’t know. Long story short try the mount before you mill your slide. But have fun. 

[zzt]

On 4/25/2021 at 9:02 PM, Posvar said:

Surely run a frame mounted optic on a major power factor gun.

 

I shoot with two super senior Open shooters who have their dots mounted directly to the slide.  They have shot that way for years without issue.  I have a custom 1911 45 with the slide milled and the dot fixed directly to the slide.  I've shot minor and major through it for years without a problem. 

 

That being said, all of my Open guns wear frame mounted dots.  I shoot 115 JHP for major and I shoot a lot more of them in a year than I do 40 or 45.  So I played it safe.

[DIYguy]

George16: Question about your slide racker on the TSO. With the racker mounted on the left side do you have to take you optic mount off the gun each time you dismantle for cleaning?

[orangeman711]

Ran an SV in 38SC, at 175 PF for many, many years with a Doctor mounted on the slide, never had a problem. Good luck.

[regor]

On 5/16/2021 at 4:29 PM, DIYguy said:

George16: Question about your slide racker on the TSO. With the racker mounted on the left side do you have to take you optic mount off the gun each time you dismantle for cleaning?

No, you take the racker off and then remove the slide. It's just held in the rear sight dovetail with a set screw. 

[zombywoof]

The height of the optic really makes no difference to me. You will get used to it in no time.

[DIYguy]

I thought it was rather bizarre that when I tried to order the slide racker from CZ Custom besides being out of stock and on back order it states it does NOT include the set screw. Two weeks, still on back order.

 

At my last match last Thursday had the opportunity  to try out another shooters Checkmate. He had his racker mounted on the right side which I found strange for a right hand shooter. After mounting the frame mount and optic on the new TSO I understood why he mounted it on the right. Guess he just gets use to making that work.

 

Makes me wonder how tight the fit is in the dovetail as CZC has this disclaimer with the product:  "FITS IN REAR SIGHT DOVETAIL GUNSMITH INSTALLATION IS RECOMMENDED"  I have a lot of tools but don't have the sight pusher for pressing sights in and out of the dovetail.

[rpm8300]

While it is certainly possible to run a slide mounted optic in open, it is very rare because it negates a huge advantage that open division affords that CO doesn't - by having the dot frame mounted, most properly set up open guns allow the shooter to keep an eye on the dot and target while the gun is cycling.  Arguably you can do this in CO as well but the overall dot movement is less with an open gun, due to both the physics of a major load working the comp, and the fact that the optic is not moving with the slide.  

[RickyBaby]

I have two Glock 34 gen4, one with a slide mount and the other an SJC frame mount, there is a WORLD of difference! The dot on the slide moves back and forth, so you lose the dot for that time and then have to re-acquire it. On the frame mount you never lose it, it doesn'tmove back and forth, it is the perfect setup for speed and not losing the dot in transitions.

[zdali]

7 hours ago, RickyBaby said:

I have two Glock 34 gen4, one with a slide mount and the other an SJC frame mount, there is a WORLD of difference! The dot on the slide moves back and forth, so you lose the dot for that time and then have to re-acquire it. On the frame mount you never lose it, it doesn'tmove back and forth, it is the perfect setup for speed and not losing the dot in transitions.

 

Or you can look at the target and not worry about the dot

 

[Kwontanamo]

I spoke with Akai about this because I saw some of his builds with slide mounted optics for what looked like open guns. Slide mounted optics on a 2011 platform are generally made for the multi-gun clients and he wouldn't recommend any USPSA/IPSC open shooters. 

[DIYguy]

Been a while, was surprised to see this topic pop up. Did go with the frame mount and used my C-More I had in the cabinet after upgrading to Trijicon SRO. Figured out right away why the slide racker goes on the right side and not a problem to rack. Just have to roll the gun to the left so the racker is straight up, easy enough. Not running the gun in competition, just wanted a CZ 40 because I love CZ and wanted a 40.

Did run into another issue I hadn't counted on. I can get a kydex holster to fit the gun even with the thumb rest but NOT with a frame mount and thumb rest. The only holster I could find that would work with both is a race holster $275. Hadn't quite thought that one through. Quite the set up now for a range gun.

[NorthwestGuy]

I really like to lower window presentation with the Toni inverted mount for my czechmate. I got used to using the racker on the right side, so I left it there.

 

[Kwontanamo]

On 12/17/2021 at 2:41 PM, NorthwestGuy said:

I really like to lower window presentation with the Toni inverted mount for my czechmate. I got used to using the racker on the right side, so I left it there.

 

those mounts also add more weight to the gun. not saying its bad but some people prefer it that way. 

[aldavid]

Is it my understanding one needs to get a new thumb rest if one uses the vertical frame mount for the cmore optic? Having said that, if the object of the game for me is to lower sight over bore, does the vertical mount get the cmore closer or should I invest in another red dot with the universal mount? Budget is not a huge concern, sight acquisition time is. Shooting major in USPSA this year for the first time. Shoot minor in steel every couple of weeks. Thanks for any tips.