Competitor (not RO) calling a squib

[teros135]

7 hours ago, matteekay said:

 

5.4.4

 

...which has nothing to do with squibs, which is the topic of this thread. 

[GrumpyOne]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

I think the goal of a shooter wanting to  make a big deal out of a squib when there may or may not be one is to trick the RO into calling stop. 

If that were the case, wouldn't that be unsportsmanlike conduct?

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, teros135 said:

 

...which has nothing to do with squibs, which is the topic of this thread. 

 

You literally said "any malfunction".

 

I'd contend dislodged eyes and ears are a shooter malfunction.  

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said:

If that were the case, wouldn't that be unsportsmanlike conduct?

Of course it’s flat out cheating but I’ll bet money even if Troy were the RM he wouldn’t support a 10.6. An Arb committee would let it slide too

[motosapiens]

14 hours ago, matteekay said:

The same reshoot/no reshoot rule would apply if the shooter called the squib and a stop (rather than the RO).

 

Squib = Scored as shot

No Squib = Reshoot

 

that's the worst idea I've ever heard... no offense, but we already have people trying to cheat and get a re-shoot by running into an RO, or intentionally shooting through something to knock over steel, or crying that a piece of tape fell off the hard-cover portion of a target so they might really have gotten and A/mike instead of the 2A you scored (and thus they need a reshoot. This would simply lead to more cheaters  attempting to cheat more often.  People would be claiming squib when they had *any* malfunction.

[ChuckS]

4 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

that's the worst idea I've ever heard... no offense, but we already have people trying to cheat and get a re-shoot by running into an RO, or intentionally shooting through something to knock over steel, or crying that a piece of tape fell off the hard-cover portion of a target so they might really have gotten and A/mike instead of the 2A you scored (and thus they need a reshoot. This would simply lead to more cheaters  attempting to cheat more often.  People would be claiming squib when they had *any* malfunction

 

Which is why the OP posted this yesterday

 

12 hours ago, matteekay said:

*ahem*

 

My bad.

 

 

 

I'm not usually this slow but I swear, October 2020 has been a month of Mondays for me. 

 

For some reason, my brain was conflating the rules when applying them to the competitor. Obviously, if the shooter can call a stop and get a reshoot when there's NO squib, it's basically a free pass to reset any stage they don't like. 

 

Yeesh.

 

Mea culpa across the board.  

 

The rules make sense as they are.

 

[matteekay]

8 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

that's the worst idea I've ever heard... 

 

If that's *literally* the worst idea you've ever heard, you really need to hang around me more.

 

Not even top ten!

[ChuckS]

2 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

If that's *literally* the worst idea you've ever heard, you really need to hang around me more.

 

Not even top ten!

Perhaps we need to start a forum competition?

[Miranda]

8 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Perhaps we need to start a forum competition?

search: things you only do once...

NM

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/36912-things-you-only-do-once/?tab=comments#comment-422100

 

miranda

[motosapiens]

37 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

If that's *literally* the worst idea you've ever heard, you really need to hang around me more.

 

Not even top ten!

haha, I'll make a point of it. Hoping to get out to Colorado to shoot a match for 2021. 

[matteekay]

8 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

haha, I'll make a point of it. Hoping to get out to Colorado to shoot a match for 2021. 

 

Come on out! It's a lovely place when it's not... on fire. Or experiencing a pandemic.

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, Miranda said:

search: things you only do once...

NM

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/36912-things-you-only-do-once/?tab=comments#comment-422100

 

miranda

Do you want to score them?

[Miranda]

4 hours ago, ChuckS said:

Do you want to score them?

 any idea how?!?

 

some are ignoring the safety labels and some are inventing reasons for safety lables

some are you shoulda figured it out before you said 'hold my beer'

 

three classes? production, open and unlimited?

 

but how do you classify "everything was fine 'till the bolt came loose..."

 

so I decline to score the depths of "how many steps of pain can you hit on the way to real pain"

 

I have to give special note for the one

who chose to ride a girl's bike using his nuts as  a seat while dragging both knees on the pavement to come to a slow stop.

 

'tis hard to imagine going for a second helping of that...

 

miranda

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Miranda
forgot the girls bike

[Miranda]

4 hours ago, ChuckS said:

Do you want to score them?

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Miranda
dupe

[Miranda]

4 hours ago, ChuckS said:

Do you want to score them?

 any idea how?!?

a triple...  still dunno how.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Miranda

[ChuckS]

56 minutes ago, Miranda said:

 any idea how?!?

a triple...  still dunno how.

 

 

 

 

 

From worst worst idea to best worst idea.

[IVC]

20 hours ago, matteekay said:

The same reshoot/no reshoot rule would apply if the shooter called the squib and a stop (rather than the RO).

 

Squib = Scored as shot

No Squib = Reshoot

 

Squib is not a grounds for reshoot, no matter how or who called it. It's a malfunction that will terminate the COF (and the shooter is not allowed to attempt to clear it during a COF).

 

The only reshoot that is related to a squib is if the RO makes a mistake - calls a squib, but it wasn't. A shooter cannot play this game since it would be ripe for abuse. Any time someone misses a target or messes up a reload they could call a squib, see that it didn't happen, then they get a reshoot. It shouldn't be that way. What a shooter who suspects a squib can do is check it (on the clock) and then decide whether to continue (if he is certain it's not a squib), or terminate the COF (no need to blow up his gun to make a point). 

[IVC]

18 hours ago, matteekay said:

Mea culpa across the board.  

Ooops, didn't see this... My browser was acting up, I guess. Seems like it's resolved, so ignore my post saying what we all agree on now. 

[SGT_Schultz]

test

[MrT_shootsAcz]

Hey MatteeKay, I am wondering if I was the RO involved in this situation... I worked the match in question and had a guy (not you) stop himself close to the end of the stage when his gun stopped working.  This guy was worried it was a squib after trying to address the malfunction first.  Frankly, I never stopped him because I saw no evidence of a squib.  After he stopped he cleared, then went to the safety area and confirmed there was no squib.  I think I know him well enough to believe he would never use the “no squib” rule to cheat if the shooter did have the ability to stop themselves and get a reshoot if no squib is found.  But I do believe there are other reasons we wouldn’t want shooters to be able to do that aside from the cheater concern other folks posted.  For example, like this case, the shooter in the state they are in shooting a stage isn’t always as aware as a close observer as to what is going on with their gun when it first goes down.  Some that participate in this sport don’t even know what a squib load is.  The potential for unnecessary reshoots by opening the rule up to the addition of allowing a shooter to do this is another reason not to do it.  There’s also a reason why certified RO’s are used for bigger matches.  Ideally you have folks who understand the rule book and get it right.  I have no doubt I handled that situation right.  Personally I never want to see a shooter deal with a gun or equipment issue that results in a lower score.  But the rules are clear on scoring that and how to handle.

[18111811]

this is a great thread.  Ive seen 2 squibs this year and both were given a reshoot, one was even at a level 2.  Im taking the RO class next month but this discussion has been a great help seeing the thought process and secondary effects of a seemingly innocent decision potentially pissing off everyone or someone gaming the stage using this as some sort of out.

Edited October 17, 2020 by 18111811

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, MrT_shootsAcz said:

{snip}

 

Must have been a different one. Our shooter did have a squib. He didn't protest the ruling but it did plant the idea that got this whole thread spitballin'.

 

 

30 minutes ago, 18111811 said:

this discussion has been a great help seeing the thought process and secondary effects of a seemingly innocent decision potentially pissing off everyone or someone gaming the stage using this as some sort of out.

 

Welcome to most of the rulebook, lol. Have fun at the class!

[motosapiens]

On 10/17/2020 at 9:21 AM, 18111811 said:

this is a great thread.  Ive seen 2 squibs this year and both were given a reshoot, one was even at a level 2. 

no bueno.

[ampleworks]

If you stop yourself, wait for the RO to start talking to you or using improper range commands while trying to figure out whatever is wrong with your gun and then get your reshoot.

[BoyGlock]

ROs could get around the rule to favor shooter/s. Personally witnessed years ago an RO stopped a shooter-friend for a suspect squib middle of a stage run. Apparently the shooter had forgotten a target and run back to engage it early in the stage. Of course there was no squib so the shooter was given a reshoot and saved the stage. It was a lev 3 local match.