Centerfire Dying?

[RickT]

Yesterday's 8 stage match, one of only four full matches in the Boise area, had a grand total of 14 centerfire entries of the 69 total (guns, not individuals): zero SS, 1 CO, 6 LTD, 2 PROD, 2 OPN, 2 ISR and 1 OSR.  Is this the way things are headed throughout the country?  This appears to have nothing to do with economics.  The time involved in reloading?  At this point in my life I'm just trying to get better and don't really care whether anyone else is shooting SS (which should be combined with PROD), but I don't understand why so many would forsake the challenge associated with the "main event" divisions?  Obviously, a number of the low ready folks (rimfire and PCC) are talented in other divisions and shoot USPSA, but choose rimfire for steel challenge.

 

 

 

[EarlKeese]

I've cut back on centerfire because of the limited availability of ammo and components. 

[RickT]

12 minutes ago, EarlKeese said:

I've cut back on centerfire because of the limited availability of ammo and components. 

Definitely in play, but this trend pre-dates the shortage.  Before I left California the San Luis Obispo club had to impose a 1 gun limit;  a second monthly match was set up which became more of a haven for rimfire.  

[jrdoran]

 

No question about this trend.   Here are the stats from the steel challenge world championship coming up next month

 

[cjmill87]

These are just my thoughts, no concrete evidence to back this up:

 

1) Steel Challenge truly has become a niche unto itself; I believe it used to be thought of as a sideshow to USPSA or additional practice, but now it can fully stand on it's own.  Therefore, dedicated participants are moving into areas that either a) attract more sponsorship or b) are easier/cheaper/faster to shoot (see below)

2) The lower barrier to entry for Rimfire and lack of movement (compared to USPSA or even IDPA) has encouraged more Junior and even family participation

3) The cost and availability of decent quality 22 ammo makes it much more appealing than the centerfire divisions

4) Steel Challenge emphasizes speed in all of it's promotional advertising and I think by and large rimfire (and PCC) divisions produce faster overall times.

 

Looking at these factors (especially from the perspective of a new competitor), why wouldn't I start out and continue in a rimfire division?  No need to invest in belts, mag pouches, holsters etc. (if you didn't want to), lower recoil/no holster draw (helps with faster times), cheaper ammo, etc.

 

[shred]

Yeah, if you are gunning for the top of the combined results list, 22's are where it's at, so that draws people.  Plus cheap and easy.   People like that.

 

In the old days of Steel Challenge, the rimfire match was a separate event, with all the noise going to the Open and Limited matches.  These days not so much, so not too surprising the attention is going away from them.

 

 

 

[RickT]

12 minutes ago, shred said:

Yeah, if you are gunning for the top of the combined results list, 22's are where it's at, so that draws people.  Plus cheap and easy.   People like that.

 

In the old days of Steel Challenge, the rimfire match was a separate event, with all the noise going to the Open and Limited matches.  These days not so much, so not too surprising the attention is going away from them.

 

 

 

These trends definitely speak to combining SS, Limited and "Production".  Very little difference in performance between these divisions, but at least the consolidated division would have more than a handful of entries.

[EarlKeese]

I started in CO, but the allure of PCCO, RFRO, and RFPO are undeniable. Fast is fun. . .
My point wasn't so much that the shift is due only to the shortage, just that it was an easy decision to focus on rimfire for now. That's what led me to buy a rimfire pistol.

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[zzt]

The last steel match I shot, the MD said "What!  No Open".  I said I was conserving primers.  The lack of primers is cutting participation in a lot of classes.  It is also affecting USPSA.  I registered for a popular match Sunday at 8 PM sharp.  As a general rule you have about 90 seconds to get squaded or you're on the wait list.  As of today there are still 26 open slots.  That is unheard of on any day other than Mother's Day.

 

I have enough rimfire that I could shoot matches for the rest of this year and next.  I'm okay on PCC for the rest of the year.  I have Open minor enough for about 3 more matches.  I'm good on Open major well into next year, as long as I strictly limit practicing.  So until I can get more primers, I'll be shooting RFRO and RFPO in SCSA.

 

BTW, I am not the only one in this boat.  One guy I shoot with went from PCC to CO and then SS because he ran out of ammo for the others.  Another friend went to SS 45 for SCSA because he wanted to save his 9mm major ammo for USPSA.  Another friend just bought a 45 PCC so he would have something to shoot when he runs out of 9mm ammo.

[Brooke]

IMHO everything that's been said here is true. There are a bunch of new participants to shooting competition involved with steel challenge. They are entering with .22's for all the reasons mentioned including gun and ammo costs and availability. I believe the biggest factor is rules. With the lack of movement and ease of entering a new shooter finds it much easier than standard USPSA competition. It also has become a family oriented sport at the local level.

 

My opinion of it isn't so positive. .22 ammo and gun performance leaves a lot to be desired. Malfunctions like failure to fire are common. 5 cycles of shooting a stage are frankly boring as hell and take too long. The use of low ready for rim fire guns doesn't help to teach anybody anything. It just increases the idea you can compete without knowing crap. 

 

The God awful number of divisions is a joke. The allowance of multiple guns per competitor further reduces the need to work at getting better. Screw up one gun you have another or more to shoot.

 

If the rules required drawing from a holster, one or at most two rounds of shooting on each stage, mags in pouches and mandatory reloading during some stages it would make competitors learn to shoot rather than have a good old social occasion. 

 

If you don't get bored quickly with the current competition I would be amazed. Then I'm often amazed at little effort people put into their hobby. Of course it's becoming a rim fire only sport. 

[stick]

At your next match, Take a survey of the shooters and ask.  I feel that availability of centerfire ammo and components and the lack of said components probably contributes to the swing you are seeing.  The only way to confirm is to survey the shooters.  All we are doing is speculating.  

[zzt]

I think Brooke is out to lunch.  I shoot Open major in USPSA.  I shoot Open minor, PCC, RFRO and RFPO in SCSA.  I shoot two guns at every shoot.  I'm not at all bored with SCSA.  I like 4/5 strings per stage.  I get to pull the trigger more often.  All the SCSA matches I go to are full, so a lot of others must like SCSA just as well.  As far as being a social occasion, it is, but it is still highly competitive.  As far as gun handling skills, the only things you don't learn shooting from low ready is drawing from a holster and mag changes on the clock.

[Nic_USPSA_C]

With the shortage of 9mm ammo I changed our USPSA match to what I call an Action Match and added Rimfire Iron and Rimfire Optic as an option.

 

Cannot buy 9mm but our local stores have .22lr and for $10 in ammo you can easily shoot the match.

[Intheshaw1]

I'm looking at rimfire because I already have a buckmark and a AR 22 upper. I am looking to make the move to both save my centerfire ammo and components as well as save some time as the local steel matches seem to move pretty quickly.

 

I haven't seen any ammo locally in 4 months but places seem to be getting it here and there now but it sells instantly. I don't see this changing until next year at the earliest so I'll use up my 22 ammo until then.

[louu]

16 hours ago, zzt said:

 It is also affecting USPSA.  I registered for a popular match Sunday at 8 PM sharp.  As a general rule you have about 90 seconds to get squaded or you're on the wait list.  As of today there are still 26 open slots.  That is unheard of on any 

Are you talking about southern Chester? I think I might go

[zzt]

1 hour ago, louu said:

Are you talking about southern Chester? I think I might go

 

No, New Holland USPSA.  Southern Chester cancelled the last two USPSA matches because the Board was worried about Covid compliance.  They did allow a SCSA match with restrictions.  Max 50 shooters, masks required if you cannot social distance.  Exceptions were for the shooter, scorer and timing ROs.  I suspect the same rules will apply for the upcoming USPSA match.  I think it will be determined by how happy the board was with compliance during the SCSA match.

 

Pre-Covid the MD was very forgiving about allowing walk-ons past the max registrations on Practiscore.  The only very real consideration is that no shot can be fired after 4 PM.

 

Hint, if you want to sign up for Southern Chester, be ready to go at 6 PM on the Sunday before.  The 50 slots fill up fast.  Staff pre-registers so there are not 50 slots open at 6 PM.

[jrdoran]

I don't believe ammo shortages are driving this overall trend.   Look at the nationals division lineup.  These folks are all shooting $1500 and up guns in the PCC and rimfire classes.  This has nothing to do w/ammo shortages.  Sure at the local level a few here and there to conserve, but the top shooters at even local matches all shoot expensive rimfire and pcc;

 

 

 

[rowdyb]

On 9/8/2020 at 9:24 AM, shred said:

Yeah, if you are gunning for the top of the combined results list, 22's are where it's at, so that draws people.  Plus cheap and easy.   People like that.

 

In the old days of Steel Challenge, the rimfire match was a separate event, with all the noise going to the Open and Limited matches.  These days not so much, so not too surprising the attention is going away from them.

 

 

 

I shot one of the last matches at Piru before SC was sold and moved from its historical beginning. Rimfire was definitely an afterthought at that match. How things change...

[zzt]

2 hours ago, jrdoran said:

This has nothing to do w/ammo shortages.  Sure at the local level a few here and there to conserve, but the top shooters at even local matches all shoot expensive rimfire and pcc;

 

Jim, at my local level it certainly is the shortage of centerfire ammo and primers that is driving shooters to shoot rimfire at the steel matches.  For most shooters it is primers that limit them.  In a few cases it is bullets.  For the people who always shot factory 9mm in Production and CO, they are done.

 

I used to alternate Divisions in SCSA.  One match I'd shoot RFPO and PCC.  The next match would be Open and RFRO.  As I mentioned above, I'm short on loaded ammo for Open minor and PCC.  For every SCSA match I shoot PCC and Open in, that is two fewer USPSA matches I can load for.  It's a matter of priorities.  I can shoot RFRO and RFPO for every match through the end of next year with ammo I have on hand.  So that is exactly what I'm going to do until I can get more primers. 

[jrdoran]

Steve, I'm not doubting that people are making the choice at the local level.    The big trend in SCSA however has been in play however long before 2020.  

 

You shoot good enough that CF and RF your at the top of the list regardless.

Edited September 10, 2020 by jrdoran

[belus]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:29 AM, cjmill87 said:

2) The lower barrier to entry for Rimfire and lack of movement (compared to USPSA or even IDPA) has encouraged more Junior and even family participation

 

On 9/9/2020 at 2:51 AM, Brooke said:

IMHO everything that's been said here is true. There are a bunch of new participants to shooting competition involved with steel challenge. They are entering with .22's for all the reasons mentioned including gun and ammo costs and availability. I believe the biggest factor is rules. With the lack of movement and ease of entering a new shooter finds it much easier than standard USPSA competition. It also has become a family oriented sport at the local level.

 

This is the appeal of SCSA to me.  No draw or movement keeps the novice safe. Some ranges I've looked into let 8 year olds shoot rimfire rifles but no centerfire pistols until they're 14+.  I don't have a sense of the age distribution across divisions though. Is RFRO the home of the very young and very old?

Edited September 10, 2020 by belus
their/they're

[Hoops]

1 hour ago, belus said:

 

 

This is the appeal of SCSA to me.  No draw or movement keeps the novice safe. Some ranges I've looked into let 8 year olds shoot rimfire rifles but no centerfire pistols until they're 14+.  I don't have a sense of the age distribution across divisions though. Is RFRO the home of the very young and very old?

Turning 70 my next BD, I assume I am in the "very old" class you refer to.  However, even after 2020 peak times reductions, I am a Master Level shooter in RFRO, PCC and high A class with RFPO (with only 3 matches posted).   We may be standing in place except for Outer Limits, but the biggest difference between steel and paper is there are only Alpha''s or Mike's in SCSA....and punitive 3 seconds for misses.  The challenge of SCSA is speed combined with 100% accuracy...zero misses.  So whether old, young or in between......Rimfire or Centerfire...........SCSA reqiuires a high degree of skill and the ability to transition, shoot fast with 100% accuracy does transfer over to IDPA and USPSA....or at least that was my personal experience.  SCSA is very simply in concept and super challenging in practice.  

 

SCSA shooters tend to shoot a lot of ammo between matches and practice.   But increases in rimfire divisions in SCSA is not a new trend.   But we have recently seen additional shift from centerfire to rimfire due to cost of centerfire in the current Covid-19 and panic buying we are seeing.  Post Covid and a return to sanity regarding ammo availability and cost, I would expect the balance with centerfire and rimfire to return to pre-Covid levels.  Unfortunatly, this current shortage and high prices may be with us longer than the last shortage which is too bad for all of the shooting sports.

 

If you are low on 9mm or 40's and have some 22LR on hand...............give SCSA a try...........it's competitive and fun....even for us old guys (smile).

 

 

 

 

[jrdoran]

I would take this a step further to say that the trend is accelerating towards rifles faster than even the trend to RF.  

 

Here is the upcoming NJ state steel championship ( alot of good shooters )   Notice how many RFRx  / PCCx   https://www.obsteelchallenge.com/nj-state-2020-squad-assignment

 

[RickT]

Regardless the cause the trend is clear and the long standing notion that Steel Challenge was is an on ramp to USPSA is not longer the case.  Why not reduce SC to eight divisions: RFRO, RFRI, RFPO, RFPI, PCCO, PCCI, CFPO and CFPI?  Eliminate holster position restrictions so USPSA OPN shooters don't have to change gear.  If a PROD shooter wants to use a race holster go for it.  And while we're at it replace OL with a more interesting stage not requiring movement; again, this is not an action pistol entry sport so why bother with the uniqueness that is OL.  Oh, and figure out what to do with ISR and OSR;  these sightings are fairly rare, but it's probably important to do something to encourage the survival of the species.

[Hoops]

1 hour ago, jrdoran said:

I would take this a step further to say that the trend is accelerating towards rifles faster than even the trend to RF.  

 

Here is the upcoming NJ state steel championship ( alot of good shooters )   Notice how many RFRx  / PCCx   https://www.obsteelchallenge.com/nj-state-2020-squad-assignment

 

Carbines definitely are popular.   Looks like the NJ state match is filling up nicely.  

 

I will shoot PCC and RFRO (2 guns) in matches as do several other shooters.  Interesting side note:  I shoot my MPX/PCCO with Atlanta Arms SC100 gr and SC115 9mm loads very close to my RFRO. 

 

Also.....the AMG timers are excellent for rimfire.  It is very rare not to pick up a shot with them.