Centerfire Dying?

[Hoops]

36 minutes ago, RickT said:

Regardless the cause the trend is clear and the long standing notion that Steel Challenge was is an on ramp to USPSA is not longer the case.  Why not reduce SC to eight divisions: RFRO, RFRI, RFPO, RFPI, PCCO, PCCI, CFPO and CFPI?  Eliminate holster position restrictions so USPSA OPN shooters don't have to change gear.  If a PROD shooter wants to use a race holster go for it.  And while we're at it replace OL with a more interesting stage not requiring movement; again, this is not an action pistol entry sport so why bother with the uniqueness that is OL.  Oh, and figure out what to do with ISR and OSR;  these sightings are fairly rare, but it's probably important to do something to encourage the survival of the species.

With many ranges unable to shoot full scale Outer Limits and Speed Option due to physical bay size restrictions perhaps it is time to consider either modifications or adding a couple of new replacement stages.  I personally think the movement in Outer Limits is much too punitive for the physically handicapped.  SCSA is a great option for those folks but 4 second penalty per string is just too much and doesn't reveal the actual shooting skills.....in my opinion.  

 

Interesting thoughts re: divisions and low ready.  My dusty STI Steelmaster and STI Edge might see some action that way (smile).

[RickT]

On 9/8/2020 at 8:39 AM, RickT said:

These trends definitely speak to combining SS, Limited and "Production".  Very little difference in performance between these divisions, but at least the consolidated division would have more than a handful of entries.

Let's tweak this a bit.   How about just CFPO and CFPI?  There's no PF in SC so who cares (much) about holster position, slide cuts, compensators?  Manufacturers will get plenty of exposure in the larger sport of USPSA.  And allowing centerfire in the "rimfire" divisions would allow folks new to handguns to compete without having to draw a hot gun.

[zzt]

I don't understand some of the logic here.  If I shot Production or CO in USPSA I would already have a belt/holster/pouch setup.  Why would I change it for SCSA?  You are already allowed to put your pouches anywhere you want for SCSA, but no one does that.

 

As far as low ready for centerfire, no.  You have a big boy gun so put it in a holster and draw.  If you can't learn, shoot rimfire.  I shoot with a friend who has a really slow draw (2.5 sec).  He shoots Limited and CO, and doesn't care one whit.  A newb with a new centerfire isn't going to care, because there is no way they will be competitive.  My home club runs outlaw steel matches and everyone shoots from low ready.  All the newbs with new guns they bought during the panic were the same.  Beep, raise gun, find sights or dot, pull trigger, miss.  Repeat.  There was a 6-way tie at the bottom of the Practiscore report, because none of them shot a single string faster than 30 seconds.  Just below them were two DQs for ADs.   I don't want them at any SCSA match until they have learned how to handle a gun. 

 

As far as CFPO and CFPI, maybe.  I don't see a lot of difference between the optic Divisions.  There are plenty of people who draw their CO guns faster that I draw by Open gun, so I don't immediately see who it would hurt.

[Matt1911]

I shoot rimfire because I want to use my MKIII for something other than static paper targets. 

[Hoops]

Topic has drifted a bit from initial subject of centerfire vs rimfire.  SCSA is an excellent venue for both centerfire and rimfire.

 

Happy shooting.  

 

 

[nso123]

Bringing this back to the top, but I don’t think we have really seen the true drop in centerfire yet due to ammo shortages. I know several shooters who have just enough ammo or components to get through WSSC with their centerfires, including PCC. This includes factory sponsored shooters who can’t get ammo right now. I bet it will drop off big time as we move into fall. 

[Sigarmsp226]

Here is a small example of what we are seeing locally.  We run a 5 stage course - once a month match - referred to as Outlaw Steel because we do not have the bay size to support SO and OL and we are not sanctioned.  The numbers below show that we have started seeing some of our CF only shooters not coming and/or a few shooting RF as their second gun rather than shooting CF in two divisions.  

 

May 2020 - 29 guns - 18 CF and 11 RF

June 2020 - 27 guns - 15 CF and 12 RF

July 2020 - 27 guns - 11 CF and 16 RF

August 2020 - 25 guns - 8 CF and 17 RF

Sept 2020 - This weekend so I do not have this month's numbers yet

 

What I also find interesting is in the past I would bring home about half of the CF brass that was spent during our match because I would put down a net tarp on two bays and another guy would do the same and then pick up the brass on the other bay.  He would then toss me a couple of handfuls of what he picked up on the 5th bay while I was loading up the targets, stands, uprights, tents, and tables.  

 

Over the past three months - Almost everyone who shoots CF wants their brass or a portion of what CF brass is gathered (this is fine with me because I have been gathering and saving brass from this monthly match for almost 2 years so I am good on brass) but because I receive no money for this monthly match (yes you read that correctly - my targets, my stands, my uprights, my tables, my paint, and my tents for shooting under) so I feel like the spent brass is a fair swap for my investment to make this monthly match happen while the range owner gets the entry fee to pay for the range maintenance, Port-a-Jon, and insurance.  I am 100% good with this deal as without this range owner allowing us to gather and shoot the next closest range is right at 2 hrs away....And I do what I do and provide what I provide because I love the fellowship, stories and lies, and the smell of burning gunpowder..... 

[Sigarmsp226]

Quick update - Yesterday we had 26 guns at out local match. 

 

Surprised by the mix......Glad to see centerfire picked up....

 

13 CF and 13 RF

 

All CF shooters were shooting 9mm except two - one was shooting 40 and one was shooting 45.....and five or six wanted their brass - which we happily accommodated.... 

[ZackJones]

Here’s a little factoid for you guys. There were 6 new division world records set this year at WSSC. All 6 were either Rimfire or PCC. I haven’t yet analyzed stage results for stage records.

[xpierrat]

CF has not been the "main match" for quite some time now.... Unless you are using SC as a transition training for USPSA matches then it just makes sense to shoot RF.... now there are some that just enjoy shooting a particular gun , 1911, old ported open gun ( thanks Vince my brain is still rattling from that thing ) and of course them wheel gunners are a special kind of person.